U12 questions

[chinochulo]

Hi All,

I am hoping to get some ski team advice from the gurus on this board.

My family lives in the PNW. The kids, 10 and 8, are probably advanced-intermediate skiers and both can get on their edges when necessary. This year we have logged ~26 days on the slopes with a goal of hitting 35. They can ski pretty much anything; both are on the freeride devo group this year and hit the same runs where the freeride competitions are held. Aside from that they freeski with me (a brand new skier this season but a long-time snowboarder) and we hit the terrain park a lot.

The goal is to turn the girls into bad-ass skiers, and I think they would greatly benefit from a season or two of ski-racing to develop good turn technique (I feel the 10 year old smears her turns too often instead of making clean carves).

My questions and logic are as follows:
1) My 8 year old is the more aggressive skier and more likely to progress through ski team ranks (she likes the idea of timed gates). Enroll her in Ski race prep vs Ski race? It appears the training is similar, with the main difference that there are more races for the actual ski race team (and more volunteer hours required).
2) I know my 8 year old (U10 for next season) will likely use multi-event skis. Will any brand do?
3) My 10 year old is less likely to stay with ski racing and would much rather be a big mountain skier. She seems like a good fit for devo/prep team. Do I also buy multi-event for the 10 year old (U12 for next season) if she is only on the prep team and not race team? Or do I have to spring for SL and GS skis?

Thanks!

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Honestly, I'd just ask their head coach.

 

[hbear]

I don't think they have a race coach hence the question. (just a free ride group)

Along those lines, I'd speak with the director of both programs and see what they say. We don't diferentiate between ski race prep and ski race here, but suspect the better kids are in the ski race program (with the prep being more of an light/less commited program. Your thoughts are bang on; they should be in a race program if you want them to learn to absoolutely rip and have the skills to actually ski (not simply go down) anything. That being said, I'm biased to having them skiing with the other kids that rip to both see and experience what others are able to do. A little peer group motivation is usually helpful at the yound ages; often eye opening for those that have not been race training....the racer kids can really rip; good news is at the young ages kids can catch up with good coaching and time on snow. As an aside we have some seriourly good ex-racers that now feature in free-ride big mountain movies for a living....very transferrable skills.

On that note, I wouldn't pigeon hole them into what you think they will like or not like....they might surprise you. Put them into a good program and see where it goes, some kids that don't ski agressivly flick a switch when they get a taste of racing. Others that you'd think would send it might get gun shy on a icy track. Even seen some cases where kids that don't seem to understand the urgency to ski on a solo track come alive when they run a duel against an opponant.

Most important is to focus on them having fun. That being said, skiing fast, in control and sending it with their buddies is pretty darn fun.

 

[tube77]

I would definitely recommend both of your kids to enroll in the racing program.
Whether they like or not the competitions, they will anyway develop fundamental skills in a structured way with a good snow mileage.

Up to U12, they don’t necessarily need two separate skis for sl and gs. Just one pair of multi event skis would be good enough.
Rossi multi event is popular.

 

[markojp]

Pretty much every local hill around Seattle has a dedicated race club. CMAC, SPAC, TAS, MRST, etc... Where's your home hill?

 

[AlpsSkidad]

Our coaches won't let the athletes ski a multi event ski at U10 onward. They sent several kids to get the 2 right sets of skis last season.
Even the U8s on our team ski separate GS/SL skis. No one has training sets and race sets though. It's just required to have the 2 different discipline skis until U14, then you are recommended training skis as well SG skis.
In races, our teams ski full height gates in slalom from U8. no stubbies in the races.
That just us.

 

[Swede]

Our coaches won't let the athletes ski a multi event ski at U10 onward. They sent several kids to get the 2 right sets of skis last season.
Even the U8s on our team ski separate GS/SL skis. No one has training sets and race sets though. It's just required to have the 2 different discipline skis until U14, then you are recommended training skis as well SG skis.
In races, our teams ski full height gates in slalom from U8. no stubbies in the races.
That just us.

You’re in France, right?

 

[AlpsSkidad]

You’re in France, right?

Yes. Our team trains in Val D'Isere/Tignes

 

[chinochulo]

That being said, I'm biased to having them skiing with the other kids that rip to both see and experience what others are able to do. A little peer group motivation is usually helpful at the yound ages; often eye opening for those that have not been race training....the racer kids can really rip; good news is at the young ages kids can catch up with good coaching and time on snow. As an aside we have some seriourly good ex-racers that now feature in free-ride big mountain movies for a living....very transferrable skills.

I would definitely recommend both of your kids to enroll in the racing program.
Whether they like or not the competitions, they will anyway develop fundamental skills in a structured way with a good snow mileage.

I agree with the above sentiments; thats what I plan on doing for sure... I do not mind the extra commitment of the race team, but simply want to make sure the kids will get a good mix of all mountain and gates if they join race (and to make sure its not all about racing).

Pretty much every local hill around Seattle has a dedicated race club. CMAC, SPAC, TAS, MRST, etc... Where's your home hill?

We are trying to decide between TAS and CMAC; leaning toward CMAC even though its a further drive because I prefer the size of Crystal. Do you have more insight between these Seattle teams?

 

[markojp]

FWIW, CMAC also does some midweek evenings up at the Summit. The program you can get to with the most frequency will be the right one. There will be less rain a Crystal if it matters.

 

[hbear]

A good program at those ages will have a good chunk (ideally the majority) of time spent developing outside the gates.

 

[slow-line-fast]

In races, our teams ski full height gates in slalom from U8. no stubbies in the races.
That just us.

How does that go? Most just ski around them like GS gates?

 

[AlpsSkidad]

How does that go? Most just ski around them like GS gates?

First- all kids (U8 and onward) have to wear slalom gear- chin guard on helmet, hand guards and shin guards, or they aren't allowed to train slalom.
U8 pretty much skis around the gates. Many U10 ski around and several hit/block some of the gates depending on ability. They are practicing hitting them in training just to get the feel and proper positioning. Even in U12 it's a mixture of hitting and going around, depending on the kid and their ability.
It seems that the philosophy is that the kids have seen/skied around/skied into/blocked etc the full sized gates all along, so they aren't intimidated when it comes time to full speed ski through the gates.
They still use stubbies to do drills and train, but also full size slalom gates are used just as often, and always in races.

 

[robertc3]

Both TAS and CMAC have produced some great skiers. Over the past few years the numbers at TAS appear to have shrunk while CMAC looks to be going strong. TAS has historically had a more gates focus program where CMAC spends relatively more time skiing the whole mountain. If your U12 daughter will eventually graduate to freeride you could split her time with a day of racing and a day of freeride each weekend. That is what my son does and the racing makes him a better freerider and the freeride makes him a better skier. We add a midweek night to try to make up for the lost weekend race training, but he does spend less time in the gates than the full-time racers.
I would pick the mountain you want to ski and that offers the most to make your family happy. If that is the proximity of Alpental then great, if bigger terrain at Crystal that is also a great choice.

 

[chinochulo]

If your U12 daughter will eventually graduate to freeride you could split her time with a day of racing and a day of freeride each weekend. That is what my son does and the racing makes him a better freerider and the freeride makes him a better skier. We add a midweek night to try to make up for the lost weekend race training, but he does spend less time in the gates than the full-time racers.
I would pick the mountain you want to ski and that offers the most to make your family happy. If that is the proximity of Alpental then great, if bigger terrain at Crystal that is also a great choice.

Thanks Robert--this is the path I am already contemplating, and for the last half of this season we have been skiing two days on the weekends.

 

[robertc3]

Most race teams will allow you to give them a test day. You might contact CMAC and TAS to see if they have that option still this season. I think all of the freeride teams are done for the year.

 

[chinochulo]

Most race teams will allow you to give them a test day. You might contact CMAC and TAS to see if they have that option still this season.

What is a test day? Do the kids "audition" for the team or something?

 

[S.H.]

What is a test day? Do the kids "audition" for the team or something?

usually, an athlete will join training for a day to see if it's a good fit for them/the family/etc. Give the chance to interact with other athletes, coaches, the training venues, vibe, etc. Parents may get a few runs with a program director, etc.

race programs will almost always take your money if you want to give it, unless the athlete is uncommonly disruptive and/or the skill level discrepancy is very big.

 

[robertc3]

What is a test day? Do the kids "audition" for the team or something?

It is more about your kids getting to see if they think race training would be fun for them. They ski with their age group and do whatever training that group is doing that day. They get to meet prospective future teammates and coaches. No pressure on your kids to "make the team" like there is in select sports.

 

[chinochulo]

Update on this thread... both kids are excited to join CMAC ski racing this year, U12 and U10. I ended up getting new Dobermann SL Juniors and Blizzard Firebird SL Junior for the girls, and somehow ended up with an SL quiver at home in a range of sizes. Can I use a long SL as a GS ski for the U12?