U12 questions

[Swede]

Update on this thread... both kids are excited to join CMAC ski racing this year, U12 and U10. I ended up getting new Dobermann SL Juniors and Blizzard Firebird SL Junior for the girls, and somehow ended up with an SL quiver at home in a range of sizes. Can I use a long SL as a GS ski for the U12?

You can have fun on a long SL but it might not be suitable depending on … In general a GS ski is much prefered. A SL with it’s shorter turn radius (10ish vs 14-17 in U12) will not encourage the right technique or allow for proper tactics in a GS course. It may cause double turning and other bad things. Speed increase too in U12 GS (also a bit depending on) — a GS is more stable/less twitchy.

 

[JTurner]

Re: is a long slalom for GS at U12 ok. Most importantly you should check with the coaches because there may be program specific rules.

aside from that, I’ve seen one ski used a lot in the more casual programs around here, and for a first year racer at 10 or 11 they can absolutely ski a GS course on a SL ski unless they already really rip around the mountain compared to their peers. If your racer takes to it then by their second season you would really want to get a GS ski because they’ll get faster quickly, and as has been pointed out a SL ski doesn’t support good GS technique development and isn’t nearly as stable (safe) at speed.

 

[robertc3]

We had our daughter on a long SL for her 3rd year in racing. It worked, but it wasn't ideal. We bought our son a true GS ski because we didn't think the long SL was the way to go for him. For a u12 in her first year in racing it will probably be just fine. Given that you have two racers the cost of a real GS ski gets shared. If you can swing it that is the way to go. If you have hit your budget and want to go with the long SL don't worry about it. They will be fine on that ski. I would rather have a racer on a long SL for GS than a freerider on a race ski when they go off to ski the throne.

 

[chinochulo]

I would rather have a racer on a long SL for GS than a freerider on a race ski when they go off to ski the throne.

Thanks to all for the continued advice. GS ski it is then (good thing Canadian exchange rate is in our favor). Btw, the kids skied the Throne last year, and the U10 used rec slalom-type skis at the time lol

 

[robertc3]

Thanks to all for the continued advice. GS ski it is then (good thing Canadian exchange rate is in our favor). Btw, the kids skied the Throne last year, and the U10 used rec slalom-type skis at the time lol

You can definitely do it, it just isn't as much fun. I have skied pow with racers on SL skis plenty of times, but sometimes it looks less like fun and more like, well, something borderline unpleasant.

 

[chinochulo]

January update!

Kids had a ton of fun during their first race weekend (slalom). My U12 got several DSQs after losing a ski/missing gates while the U10 ended up as high as 4th place on the second day. The kids in both U10 and U12 who are 10-12 seconds faster clearly have been training for a few years and are running through the gates/cross blocking instead of going around the gates. My kids don't mind getting private coaching to improve ski technique but our team does not provide private lessons. At the same time the ski groups of 8-10 kids seem a little too big for the coaches to give more individualized instruction.

Any thoughts on what I can do? YouTube only helps so much, but I feel that with the appropriate in-person technical instruction to improve carving, they might be able to lower their times significantly.

 

[robertc3]

I think you just give them some time. There won't be a huge amount of individual instruction each day, but it will happen. The kids who are well established racers will be faster this season, and probably next season as well. If your kids work to improve their skiing first and their racing second they will eventually improve their racing a ton. Once that starts happening the gaps will narrow and they will be competitive.

After training, take them out for a few "family runs" and ask what they worked on that day. Get them to demonstrate the skills and maybe even try to teach you. The more they ski the better they will get. Lots of patience is required while they figure it out.

My son competes in racing and freeride. It took him four seasons of competitive freeride before he figured out the right mix of pushing the limit and skiing a line you can nail. They just need that time and patience to let it all come together.

 

[S.H.]

10:1 racer:coach ratio is high, especially for that age group.

That said ... first race vs. those who have been doing this for several years, there's always going to be a big gap. There's a 100% experience difference! As they get older, that gap will shrink and possibly go away.

Talk to their coaches. Directly. See what they think. Go from there--no matter what you think of their aptitude, they 100% know your kids better than we do.

That said ... I'm with @robertc3, give it time. It's way too early for this.

 

[hbear]

Sounds like that are having fun so make sure you keep it that way!
As long as they have fun.....the rest will come with the process of learning ski racing and improving at their pace. Time on snow is a big difference maker and let's face it, the other kids have more of it than yours have at this point. Not to say gaps can't close, but it's so early....just enjoy the process.

As a parent, it's natural to expedite the process....but miles on snow is pretty darn near impossible to circumvent. Privates can help....better (and more fun) is just to take them out to rip everywhere on the mountain as much as you can. Added benefit (and most important in my opinion) is the memories you build with them by doing so together.

When the time comes to step it up, you'll know. Way too early at this point.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

for U12 west coast USSA Super G, what’s the consensus on need/advantage of using a junior SG ski?

 

[QueueCT]

I've heard all different opinions. I'm not an expert ... at U14 my daughter skied a 24m radius 184 GS ski with a full plate. They only skied SG twice and had two training days during the season. East coast skiing. She was 120#.

 

[hbear]

SGJ ski is better. Softer tip and engages like a SG ski should. Big GS ski is just a GS ski and designed to ski differently and for a different sized athlete.
Now a lot of parents put their kids on old GS skis, but more for a cost thing given SGJ skis are not easy to find (and not used much in the big picture) while old GS skis can be snapped up for pennies.

For context, the smaller jr rossi SG ski is 186/30m (U14) and the next size up is 196/35 (U16). Both ski VERY differently (e.g. Better) than a similar sized GS ski when doing SG. Proper tool is best.

 

[dovski]

Hey as long as your kids are having fun and developing their skills that is all that matters. We started my girls out in an intro to TAS program and while they liked racing they preferred drops and chutes .... etc. Today all three kids are in the Alpental Freeride program and two are actively entering Freeride competitions. All three kids (11, 14 and 16) have become exceptional skiers. The older two can ski anything and make it look smooth and easy while our youngest is working towards that. Glad to see your kids are enjoying CMAC.

As an FYI Corbetts.com has lots of kids race skis. They are based in Canada, ship for free, don't charge any tax and their prices are in CDN $$ we have snagged some great deals on gear from them over the years.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

SGJ ski is better. Softer tip and engages like a SG ski should. Big GS ski is just a GS ski and designed to ski differently and for a different sized athlete.
Now a lot of parents put their kids on old GS skis, but more for a cost thing given SGJ skis are not easy to find (and not used much in the big picture) while old GS skis can be snapped up for pennies.

For context, the smaller jr rossi SG ski is 186/30m (U14) and the next size up is 196/35 (U16). Both ski VERY differently (e.g. Better) than a similar sized GS ski when doing SG. Proper tool is best.

I’m leaning this way, and have a lead on some new HEAD JR i.SG RDX in 175 cm that are from the 2019-2020 season. Even though I can get these for an awesome deal from my normal shop I order from, I wasn’t sure if I really needed another pair of skis for 2 races this year. I guess my second year U10 can use them next year too as with most gear gets passed around in our family. I basically wasn’t sure if the advantage is worth it.

 

[robertc3]

I’m leaning this way, and have a lead on some new HEAD JR i.SG RDX in 175 cm that are from the 2019-2020 season. Even though I can get these for an awesome deal from my normal shop I order from, I wasn’t sure if I really needed another pair of skis for 2 races this year. I guess my second year U10 can use them next year too as with most gear gets passed around in our family. I basically wasn’t sure if the advantage is worth it.

Can your U12 handle a 175 cm ski? That is a lot of ski for an 11 year old if they are not at the top of the (physical) growth chart. If they are 5'-0"+ and 100lbs then that is a great ski. If they are 4'-8" and 80 lbs that is probably more ski than they can handle. I would definitely talk to their coach before I dropped the money that ski.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

Can your U12 handle a 175 cm ski? That is a lot of ski for an 11 year old if they are not at the top of the (physical) growth chart. If they are 5'-0"+ and 100lbs then that is a great ski. If they are 4'-8" and 80 lbs that is probably more ski than they can handle. I would definitely talk to their coach before I dropped the money that ski.

Barefoot she‘s 5’3” and 115 pounds of solid muscle and bone. Her Practice GS ski is her 159 from last year and she races on a 166 GS. I don’t think a 175 is too much to control for her.

 

[robertc3]

Barefoot she‘s 5’3” and 115 pounds of solid muscle and bone. Her Practice GS ski is her 159 from last year and she races on a 166 GS. I don’t think a 175 is too much to control for her.

That is a well put together 11 year old. My 14 year old son is 5'-1" and 97 lbs, so at the other extreme of the growth chart. It makes me cautious about kids getting into bigger gear than might be right. It sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck to your DD this season.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

That is a well put together 11 year old. My 14 year old son is 5'-1" and 97 lbs, so at the other extreme of the growth chart. It makes me cautious about kids getting into bigger gear than might be right. It sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck to your DD this season.

Thanks- she tries to stay fit. 5 days a week she runs 1.5 miles, lifts light weights, does push ups/pull ups etc at home. Her 2nd year u10 sister is actually overall more athletic (but so far only 88 pounds and 4’9”) and probably inspires the u12 to push harder.

 

[hbear]

The 175 SG ski is not too big. It's not like the 175 GS, totally different ski.

At 12 my daughter was rolling around on the 186/30 SG with zero issues (frankly she was on it at 11 given she was allowed to forerun the U14 SG races, based on her times would have done just fine if she did race) And was training on the 175 GS. Not the biggest, but a very technically strong and physically fit/strong.
Currently at 13, she regularly trains primarily with the 182 GS ski and runs the 196/35 SGJ. On the 157 FIS for SL in training. Racing we size her down given setting guidelines (as good as she is, it's just not worth running a 25m ski when they can set 18....she opts for the 23m instead to give her a margin of error), same thing with SL....she races on the 150. Has been in the ZSoft+ plug for years now (funnily enough it flexes better than the 70 or 90...go figure).

So not all about size, but more about how they use it and the forces they can impart on the equipment.

 

[hbear]

I’m leaning this way, and have a lead on some new HEAD JR i.SG RDX in 175 cm that are from the 2019-2020 season. Even though I can get these for an awesome deal from my normal shop I order from, I wasn’t sure if I really needed another pair of skis for 2 races this year. I guess my second year U10 can use them next year too as with most gear gets passed around in our family. I basically wasn’t sure if the advantage is worth it.

Advantage, depends on how they ski. But without a doubt it's the better ski to learn proper SG technique on (which is really what matters at the development ages).