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Uh oh. Fast Tracks at Powdr resorts is coming

Tricia

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Okay, I have a *hypothetical* question for those who attend Gatherings.
If we were to organize a bulk buy of Fast Tracks passes for gathering attendees, would you all buy one so you can hang with other SkiTalkers?

Edit to add: It is not my intent do do this but I was curious about the group concept.
I should have added the word hypothetical in my original post about this.
Mostly I was wondereing if someone were likely to use this feature if they were in a group like we usually ski at these events.
 

Andy Mink

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From the Co-presidents of POWDR, for what it's worth:

A Letter to the Community Regarding Fast Tracks

We understand how passionate you are about the mountains. Doing the things you love with the people you love is definitely a shared mission.

We also understand that change can be concerning. Our intent as stewards of the mountains is to be thoughtful and considerate. We believe there is nothing better for our communities than providing a balanced life full of adventure. To make this happen, POWDR is committed to doing all we can to protect our environment and enable participation for all.

Our recently announced Fast Tracks product, which enables upgradeable express lift access at four of our mountain resorts, has generated some questions and confusion, especially among the Mt. Bachelor community. As a result, we would like to clarify how this product works and what it means for our community and reiterate our commitment to mountain access for all.

The Fast Tracks concept has been in operation at our Copper Mountain, Colorado, resort for almost 20 years. First introduced in January of 2002 for lodging guests only, the offer was made widely available to anyone skiing the following season, in February 2003. Since that time, it has gone through a number of variations and optimizations informed through guest feedback. Product and experiential enhancements were successfully implemented at Copper Mountain and the concept was expanded to other resorts and reintroduced as Fast Tracks.

What we have learned through our recent experience with the product at Copper Mountain is that it is utilized by less than 2% of total daily skiers due in large part to our careful calibration and limiting access to ensure a quality experience for all guests. The product is additionally managed with lift loading protocols, which provide for rotation between traditional, Ski School and Fast Track lines. As a result, the impact on lift line wait times across our mountains is negligible.

Fast Tracks does not affect general access to our resorts, as it is an add-on product to a day lift ticket or season pass. Fast Tracks access is no different than the access offered through ski school, private lessons and guided mountain tours in that they all provide a finite number of fast lane experiences. These experiences are made available to every member of the public, at the same price, with the same benefits.

To this last point, as stewards of amazing mountain resort experiences on some of our nation’s most beautiful public lands, we believe we have a responsibility to create opportunities for everyone to access and enjoy the adventure lifestyle. As part of our Play Forever commitment, we are working to build a more inclusive community through our partnerships with the Burton Chill Foundation, SOS Outreach, Special Olympics, Boys and Girls Clubs and local parks & rec and school learn to ski programs. We also enable access by providing resources through the High Fives Foundation and local organizations such as Wasatch Adaptive Sports, Vermont Adaptive, Adaptive Action Sports and Oregon Adaptive Sports.

Furthermore, we provide free public access to resort amenities located on private and public land. For example, Snowbird provides access to adjacent U.S. Forest Service lands through permanently open gates at the bottom of Mineral Basin as well as Baby Thunder and has a controlled gate to access public lands via the White Pine and American Fork Twin Peaks when avalanche conditions permit. In addition, Mt. Bachelor’s Woodward Start Park and Early Riser Lift are free and available for the public to enjoy all season long as is alpine touring in specific controlled areas and access to adjacent forest and wilderness areas for Alpine Touring and Snowshoeing.

We do not believe that providing access to the public lands on which our resorts operate and offering customizable experiences for our guests are mutually exclusive. We remain highly confident based on our experience with similar products that Fast Tracks will be a valuable product for those that wish to participate and it will not compromise the experience of other guests. Nevertheless, if any guest would like a season pass refund before the season starts as a result of our Fast Tracks product, we will honor that request.

We remain committed to fostering lasting relationships with our communities and enabling the adventure lifestyle for generations to come.

Wade Martin & Justin Sibley
POWDR Co-Presidents
 
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Wasatchman

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"Our recently announced Fast Tracks product, which enables upgradeable express lift access at four of our mountain resorts, has generated some questions and confusion"

Haha. That would be one way to describe, er spin it, I suppose.
 

Tricia

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"Our recently announced Fast Tracks product, which enables upgradeable express lift access at four of our mountain resorts, has generated some questions and confusion"

Haha. That would be one way to describe, er spin it, I suppose.
One thing that I take from the press releases like this is that they're hearing the outcry. We'll see if it weighs in any decision they make as this rolls out.
If they see issues, perhaps they'll change directions.
 

fatbob

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It's a flat out lie that it will not compromise the experience of other guests as simple logic says every chair taken by Line Cheats TM means a chair back for everyone else.

I guess they qualify that by saying they remain " highly confident" that that is the case. I remain " highly confident" that Elvis is alive on the moon and that I'm about to inherit millions from a nice man in Nigeria who has emailed me.

The press release is really a legal defence around the equity of access threat brought on by the Senator getting involved not a sign they are listening at all.

The real question if not many people will use it and it's no big deal is why are they continuing it at all?
And the answer must be that they see opportunity in stratifying and dividing guests on wallet/willingness to put themselves first.
 
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Philpug

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It's a flat out lie that it will not compromise the experience of other guests as simple logic says every chair taken by Line Cheats TM means a chair back for everyone else.
@SBrown has been experiencing it for 20 years at Copper and says she doesn't notice it.

The real question if not many people will use it and it's no big deal is why are they continuing it at all?
So they could say...
Nevertheless, if any guest would like a season pass refund before the season starts as a result of our Fast Tracks product, we will honor that request.
If you don't like it, they will refund your money, they know very few if any will but they gave you an out so you lose your position to complain about it. (you not you (@fatbob) but in the general term)
 

fatbob

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@SBrown has been experiencing it for 20 years at Copper and says she doesn't notice it.
"Will not" is not the same as "will not materially" which is really what the Copper argument revolves around. I bet there have been some days e.g. during the new lift farragoes a couple of years back where people waiting an hour or so in the trad line would have been mightily pissed off by Line Skippers going past them. I assume Copper had the sense to suspend priority lines during that clusterfarck ( I dunno -I was there some days over that holiday but avoided centre base entirely).

It can't both commercially be worth the effort and attendant bad press/reception and have no impact on experiences for others, maths doesn't work like that. Or by some quantum magic they've managed to squeeze extra Line Skipper chairs on the line whenever a Line Skipper shows up.

Whether the "traditional" skiers (and that euphemism seems to hold some contempt in it meaning second class citizens) perceive the impact or not doesn't affect the truth that there is a impact.

I suspect it will largely pan out ok - and that it will be largely price insensitive short term tourists paying for a few skips in a morning to get a groomer tour before they are too tired. But I guess the Batchelor locals are more concerned with too many tech bros or whatever buying themselves to the front of the line every powder day. I can see friction in such cases while the proper etiquette is resolved.
 

slowrider

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Holidays, weekends, powder days and Summit openings after it's been closed for a week from storms. That would be where the upgrade comes into play at Bachelor. IMO, doesn't matter unless you ski crowds.
 
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Wasatchman

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I suspect it will largely pan out ok - and that it will be largely price insensitive short term tourists paying for a few skips in a morning to get a groomer tour before they are too tired.
I think many will underestimate just how many avid skiers will use this product on a pow day. At least the Tram will not have fastpass. But if you have fastpass you can suddenly ski mineral basin on a pow day with no concern at all of getting stuck down there. That will be worth a lot to quite a few avid skiers and will be a gamechanger on how to ski Snowbird on a pow day. I agree it will hurt the experience of many skiers. Hell, even if there are limited fast pass tickets sold (and I'm very skeptical about 2 percent on a pow day unless the price is astronomical) just seeing the shit eating grins of the fast passers rock right on up and board right away while being stuck in a 30 minute line (or longer) would hurt the experience for me a bit.

The biggest concern for me (and many other skiers opposed to this) is it spreading to Vail and Alterra. Right now, it is easy enough for me to avoid Snowbird. If Vail and Alterra follow then I either have to suck it up or pretty much go all backcountry.

I know a few people that work in the industry that agree this development is bad news for your general skier. And it makes no sense for Powdr to roll this out with the attention and outcry this is getting if they didn't think this could materially boost their revenue. Which means it does in fact have the potential to noticeably worsen the experience for the punters that don't have the Disney fast pass. Let's see what happens.
 
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dbostedo

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But if you have fastpass you can suddenly ski mineral basin on a pow day with no concern at all of getting stuck down there.
Well yes and no... there's a balance to it. If it's as popular as you're thinking, and a LOT of people buy it, then it could have the effect of making the fast pass line nearly as long as the regular line. And if they limit it (either through limited sales, or just by raising the price) to keep the fast pass line short, it won't impact the regular line as much.
 
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Wasatchman

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Well yes and no... there's a balance to it. If it's as popular as you're thinking, and a LOT of people buy it, then it could have the effect of making the fast pass line nearly as long as the regular line. And if they limit it (either through limited sales, or just by raising the price) to keep the fast pass line short, it won't impact the regular line as much.
Even 10 percent having fast pass would be materially faster than the regular line. And if course there will be some impact on the regular line.

For me, even if there was a minimal impact to the actual line, it would hurt my experience by seeing fast passers rock on by on a pow day while I'm stuck in line for 30 minutes.

Put it to you this way, Dave. I spoke to a someone who spoke directly to a high level executive in the ski industry about this development. Here is what they said: "Of course this is bad news for skiers". His personal take was that his company would watch what happens with Powdr. If it is a very successful revenue generator then as much as they wouldn't want to personally implement it, they probably would out of a duty for increasing profits.
 

DanoT

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It's a flat out lie that it will not compromise the experience of other guests as simple logic says every chair taken by Line Cheats TM means a chair back for everyone else.

I guess they qualify that by saying they remain " highly confident" that that is the case. I remain " highly confident" that Elvis is alive on the moon and that I'm about to inherit millions from a nice man in Nigeria who has emailed me.

The press release is really a legal defence around the equity of access threat brought on by the Senator getting involved not a sign they are listening at all.

The real question if not many people will use it and it's no big deal is why are they continuing it at all?
And the answer must be that they see opportunity in stratifying and dividing guests on wallet/willingness to put themselves first.
^^^Sounds like a Mount Bachelor local skier. This kind of attitude could earn you an honourary Bend OR, citizenship. :ogbiggrin:
 

dbostedo

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Even 10 percent having fast pass would be materially faster than the regular line. And if course there will be some impact on the regular line.

For me, even if there was a minimal impact to the actual line, it would hurt my experience by seeing fast passers rock on by on a pow day while I'm stuck in line for 30 minutes.

Put it to you this way, Dave. I spoke to a someone who spoke directly to a high level executive in the ski industry about this development. Here is what they said: "Of course this is bad news for skiers". His personal take was that his company would watch what happens with Powdr. If it is a very successful revenue generator then as much as they wouldn't want to personally implement it, they probably would out of a duty for increasing profits.
Agreed with all of that... I was just pointing out the limits that they'll have in implementing this, as I understand it. I thought the phrase "stuck down there" sounded like something more extreme than a bit of extra delay.

In other words, if you DO get stick in line in Mineral Basin for 30 minutes, there's a limit to how much of that 30 minutes could be caused by fast pass. You won't have a situation where it would have been a 5 minute line, if not for fast pass, and is instead 30 minutes. That said... I can't say how much of that 30 minutes could be caused by fast pass. I'm interested to see.
 

Don'tfit

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Time is of essence, they have to pay for that mountain before there are there are no more winters with snow eh?
 

Don'tfit

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So get your best runs in later, doubt that the type of person to purchase this has the legs to go all day. Same as every other
ski day. Who cares if there are some snivelers in Bend, it not a "locals only" mountain. My wave, my beach...
 

Tricia

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They did it for the extra money. Somehow they thought this would be a less objectionable way to get more money than a straight up price increase. Kinda like making your chocolate bars smaller instead of raising the price.
I liken it to buying a plane ticket, only to be informed after the fact that there are luggage fees.

The only real beef I think anyone has in this is that it was announced after passes were already purchased.
Powder is giving passholders an opportunity to get a refund if they are upset about it.
However, looking at it from the viewpoint of passholders who were counting on skiing these resorts, it may be too late to buy an alternative pass or perhaps this mountain is the only logical choice in the area (thinking Bachelor)


I still don't think its going to be a big deal, but I do understand some feeling like its not cool that it was announced after passes were sold.
 

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