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Uncertified Instructors

SkiSchoolPros

Impact Ecosystem- ie.Money with Meaning
Skier
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
207
Location
Colorado

Looks like Vail Resorts will hire green-blue skiers/riders whose prior experience is limited to indoor slopes to teach private lessons to all ages on Vail Mountain.

Reminds me of "Rob Katz's" idea to have guests teach the lessons

(3:42)

Window price is $1,560 for an all day private during the 2022 Christmas Holidays, but only $1,410 if you book now.

Has anyone ever taken a lesson from an instructor who had never seen snow prior to their first year teaching?

Non-Certified Ski & Snowboard Instructor


Date: Aug 17, 2022
Location:
Vail, CO, US
Company: Vail Mountain
Shift Type: Winter Seasonal 2022/2023

Come work and play in the mountains! Whether it’s your first time seeing snow or you were born on the slopes, joining our team means discovering (or re-discovering!) a passion for the outdoors while building lifelong connections with teammates and guests from around the world.

With 40+ resorts across 3 continents, you can join our team for a season or stay to build a career. From day one, you'll receive some of the highest compensation rates in the industry, free Epic pass(es) along with free ski and snowboard lessons, 40% retail discounts, the chance to grow through Epic Service - our leading training and development program, and wellness benefits to fuel your success.

Join us to create your Experience of a Lifetime!

Job Benefits
  • Ski/Mountain Perks! Free passes for employees, employee discounted lift tickets for friends and family AND free ski lessons
  • MORE employee discounts on lodging, food, gear, mountain shuttles AND during the summer on bike haul, golf and other activities
  • 401(k) Retirement Plan
  • Employee Assistance Program
  • Excellent training and professional development
  • Referral Program

Seasonal Full Time roles are eligible for the above, plus:
  • Health Insurance; Medical Insurance, Dental Insurance, and Vision Insurance plans (after eligible employees work 500 hours)
  • Free ski passes for dependents
  • Critical Illness and Accident plans



Job Summary
Experience the best office in the world teaching Snowsports to guests of all ages. Instructors will deliver quality ski/snowboard instruction to groups and individuals, providing world class guest service in a safe and fun environment. Full and Part Time positions available.

Job Specifications
  • Housing: Currently Available
  • Starting Wage: $20 / hour
  • Shift & Schedule Availability - Full and Part Time, Holidays Required
  • Skill Level - Min. Level 4

Job Responsibilities
  • Teach group and private lessons
  • Work with guests of all ages
  • Deliver world class guest service
  • Create a safe and fun learning environment
  • Support all ski school needs inclusive of scanning, running surface lifts, facilitating lunch, fitting equipment
  • Provide guest feedback that inspires and creates lifelong skiers and riders
  • Other duties as assigned

Job Requirements
  • Must be willing to work with guests of all ages
  • Must be able to communicate fluently in English
  • Strong communication skills
  • Must be willing to work weekends/Holidays

The budgeted range starts at $20. Actual pay will be adjusted based on experience.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
1,229
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
Skill Level 4: "...you should be nearly parallel on green runs and perhaps even a few easy blue runs."
Well--good enough to teach first time children. Barely.

Teaching adults their first and second days on snow doesn't take much more in skiing skill. Teaching skill is probably more important, and that can be taught quickly in clinics. A few essential things like selecting & buckling rental boots (the rent shop guys have a different agenda; get the crowd out the door), wedge stops & turns, chair lifts, etc., don't need a high level instructor. These skills do take a suitably trained instructor.
 

VickieH

Contrarian
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,928
Location
Denver area
These skills do take a suitably trained instructor
But ... will those not suitably trained instructors be limited to teaching only those new to skiing, or will they be paired up with customers who are there to learn level 4, 5, etc skills?

As a recent level 4, 5, 6 student, I think I know the ugly answer.
 

martyg

Making fresh tracks
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Posts
2,216
In virtually all cases those certified instructor still have to go through several weeks of staff training. Maybe not at a smaller resort (Baker's staff training was abysmal), but certainty at a larger resort like Vail, Beaver Creek, Big Sky, Jackson, Telluride and especially Aspen.

In addition, throughout the season they will have staff training that will likley prepare them for their PSIA L1. So maybe 10 - 20 days of clinicing before they really get into it with the skiing public? Will they have the depth of knowledge and MA skills of someone who has been teaching and working on their craft for decades? Absolutely not. However, barring heinious staff sortages, conscientious supervisiors will appropriately match them with appropriate groups of students.
 

ss20

Enjoying this dance with gravity
Skier
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Posts
393
Location
A minute from the Alta exit off the I-15!
We all started somewhere. A good staff training programs with regular clinics that are mandatory for new instructors will prepare someone better than just getting the cert 1.

This is an experience-driven profession, IMO. Ski-ability put aside, I've always argued that a cert2 instructor with 20 years experience can usually out-teach a cert3 instructor with 3 years experience.

I am fine with resorts letting people into a children's program just on house training alone and no cert for their first year. The instructor community will not grow if there are high barriers to entry- such as requiring $150 in PSIA dues someone's first year for a seasonal job that they're not even sure they like.
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
3,358
Location
Vermont
Timely post & I hear ya, however the industry (PSIA / USSS) will need to do revivify their operations plan.

Just (like 90’ ago) wrapped up completing my L100 certification. This was the 5th date I’ve attempted- all prior courses were canceled due to lack of interest. Thus, I find myself in Jersey. (*Sidebar, tomorrow’s certification coarse was canceled due to multiple ppl canceling at the last minute.)

D4108E0B-807A-4489-8578-A4E8529E70CD.jpeg


^behold, the glorious testing grounds.

Now, the prep for the course required 20 hours of online modules & an hour Zoom meeting.

Additionally, the costs for said certification event & dues ran > $600 plus travel / accommodations / waterpark passes for my children…. So we’re now at close to $1500.

Have I mentioned I traveled from ski country to New Jersey & gave up a weekend of paddle boarding & beer to go to a mall?

So there’s a reason why no one is signing up to become a certified instructor.
 

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,288
If you can still well in a fridge you can ski well enough for most blue groomers bar possibly the stamina.

But basically Vail are of course taking their guests for mugs by getting the unwary to pay top dollar for "instructors" with barely more experience than the guests*. Hey it's the ski industry - nothing to see here. And before the butthurt starts - great if your ski school only takes top notch instructors and punts them out at a reasonable price.

Already been going on for years though.

*on a possible justification that their guests would be more pissed if there weren't enough warm bodies to contract their kids out to.
 
Last edited:

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,229
Location
Ontario Canada

Looks like Vail Resorts will hire green-blue skiers/riders whose prior experience is limited to indoor slopes to teach private lessons to all ages on Vail Mountain.

Reminds me of "Rob Katz's" idea to have guests teach the lessons

(3:42)

Window price is $1,560 for an all day private during the 2022 Christmas Holidays, but only $1,410 if you book now.

Has anyone ever taken a lesson from an instructor who had never seen snow prior to their first year teaching?

Non-Certified Ski & Snowboard Instructor


Date: Aug 17, 2022
Location:
Vail, CO, US
Company: Vail Mountain
Shift Type: Winter Seasonal 2022/2023

Come work and play in the mountains! Whether it’s your first time seeing snow or you were born on the slopes, joining our team means discovering (or re-discovering!) a passion for the outdoors while building lifelong connections with teammates and guests from around the world.

With 40+ resorts across 3 continents, you can join our team for a season or stay to build a career. From day one, you'll receive some of the highest compensation rates in the industry, free Epic pass(es) along with free ski and snowboard lessons, 40% retail discounts, the chance to grow through Epic Service - our leading training and development program, and wellness benefits to fuel your success.

Join us to create your Experience of a Lifetime!

Job Benefits
  • Ski/Mountain Perks! Free passes for employees, employee discounted lift tickets for friends and family AND free ski lessons
  • MORE employee discounts on lodging, food, gear, mountain shuttles AND during the summer on bike haul, golf and other activities
  • 401(k) Retirement Plan
  • Employee Assistance Program
  • Excellent training and professional development
  • Referral Program

Seasonal Full Time roles are eligible for the above, plus:
  • Health Insurance; Medical Insurance, Dental Insurance, and Vision Insurance plans (after eligible employees work 500 hours)
  • Free ski passes for dependents
  • Critical Illness and Accident plans



Job Summary
Experience the best office in the world teaching Snowsports to guests of all ages. Instructors will deliver quality ski/snowboard instruction to groups and individuals, providing world class guest service in a safe and fun environment. Full and Part Time positions available.

Job Specifications
  • Housing: Currently Available
  • Starting Wage: $20 / hour
  • Shift & Schedule Availability - Full and Part Time, Holidays Required
  • Skill Level - Min. Level 4

Job Responsibilities
  • Teach group and private lessons
  • Work with guests of all ages
  • Deliver world class guest service
  • Create a safe and fun learning environment
  • Support all ski school needs inclusive of scanning, running surface lifts, facilitating lunch, fitting equipment
  • Provide guest feedback that inspires and creates lifelong skiers and riders
  • Other duties as assigned

Job Requirements
  • Must be willing to work with guests of all ages
  • Must be able to communicate fluently in English
  • Strong communication skills
  • Must be willing to work weekends/Holidays

The budgeted range starts at $20. Actual pay will be adjusted based on experience.
No certified instructors, depending on the individual issues or no issues, some are better than certified instructors. Think about it.

As to that rate for a private, even with a top level certified instructor becomes some what questionable. Even more so that the instructor recieves very little of it. This p!$$3$ me off to end. This is usery the of customer and instructor by the resort as they are the only winner.
 

HardDaysNight

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
1,343
Location
Park City, UT
An instructor working a full-time schedule grosses a large destination resort about $150,000 a season. The cost to, say, Vail of this revenue is about $10,000 in pay plus the cost of fringe benefits (health insurance after 500 hours worked!), training, uniform, etc. - say an incremental $4,000 to be very generous. So $125,000+ per “instructor” straight to the bottom line. Based on those economics who wouldn’t hire as many warm bodies as possible, regardless of their skills?
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
Industry Insider
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,605
Location
PNW aka SEA
Timely post & I hear ya, however the industry (PSIA / USSS) will need to do revivify their operations plan.

Just (like 90’ ago) wrapped up completing my L100 certification. This was the 5th date I’ve attempted- all prior courses were canceled due to lack of interest. Thus, I find myself in Jersey. (*Sidebar, tomorrow’s certification coarse was canceled due to multiple ppl canceling at the last minute.)

View attachment 176032

^behold, the glorious testing grounds.

Now, the prep for the course required 20 hours of online modules & an hour Zoom meeting.

Additionally, the costs for said certification event & dues ran > $600 plus travel / accommodations / waterpark passes for my children…. So we’re now at close to $1500.

Have I mentioned I traveled from ski country to New Jersey & gave up a weekend of paddle boarding & beer to go to a mall?

So there’s a reason why no one is signing up to become a certified instructor.

Brian, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate your experience across the board. It's not my experience in our region that exams are as rare and expensive as you mention.
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
3,358
Location
Vermont
Brian, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate your experience across the board. It's not my experience in our region that exams are as rare and expensive as you mention.
I’m in the most populous region (East) & this was the first L100 to go off since February. Here’s a breakdown of costs, if there’s a cheaper way to make this happen lmk-

2022 USSS membership $160
2022 Vermont Membership $70
L100 application fees $160
It’s past July so….
2023 USSS membership $160
2023 Vermont coach $70
Big Snow on snow for 6 hours $ 114
Gas to / from Jersey >$100
Food $50
2 nights NYC lodging @ $300/night $600

*ya don’t actually pass on the spot, any candidate may be asked to repeat all/sections at a future L100
 

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