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Uncertified Instructors

jimtransition

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I'm afraid we've already established in this thread it's a lousy "job".

But even if it's just a job, one can choose a slightly better one by doing it at a mountain with far superior skiing.

For the locals and part-timers, they're already there. So it isn't "just a job". It's a chance to do whatever they want to do, in a place one had already chose to live. But for a traveling instructor from overseas, why would they forego bigger mountains and better snow for.....what?
My first season teaching in the US (2006) I didn't really know the difference between the east coast and out west, I had my L2 but no experience and almost ended up working at Stratton, luckily got a job offer in Winter Park and went there. It was a lot easier with visas back then and we had a great crew of foreign full time instructors.
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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My first season teaching in the US (2006) I didn't really know the difference between the east coast and out west, I had my L2 but no experience and almost ended up working at Stratton, luckily got a job offer in Winter Park and went there. It was a lot easier with visas back then and we had a great crew of foreign full time instructors.

Did you work for Bob then? Coached with him this summer. Good times.
 

fatbob

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If it’s any consolation, you can get a cert just for the fun of it, but not use it, most of the L1 candidates I get want to get it for the knowledge or the fun of it. We even get Americans from Seattle coming up to Vancouver to take the level 1 so they can head back to the office on Monday and tell everyone how they’re a Canadian Ski instructor.

Pretty much what I did - I was spending a winter in Fernie and decided to take L1 Snowboard early season for some development. It was funny because I was around all season I'd often get others I took the course with asking me if I wanted to take their lessons or ask if I could line up as they were short despite me not having a work visa nor any employment with the ski school. I declined naturally. Kinda opened my eyes to a lot of ski school being the Wild West.
 

crosscountry

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My first season teaching in the US (2006) I didn't really know the difference between the east coast and out west, I had my L2 but no experience and almost ended up working at Stratton, luckily got a job offer in Winter Park and went there. It was a lot easier with visas back then and we had a great crew of foreign full time instructors.
I'm curious. What do incoming oversea instructors look for when they search for and choose which mountain in the US/CA they teach?
 

markojp

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I'm curious. What do incoming oversea instructors look for when they search for and choose which mountain in the US/CA they teach?

Tipping income potential and regular work. While a day long private is exorbitant to most all of us, it's not to the regulars at Deer Valley, Aspen, etc...
 

Bendzeekneez

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I'm curious. What do incoming oversea instructors look for when they search for and choose which mountain in the US/CA they teach?
What I have heard in no particular order:

a) Affordable and clean staff accommodation - not looking for 6 people in a 250sqft room and $1000/month.
b) Wages - living wage and enough hours that will allow you to finish the season in the black rather than the red. - Is there a commission structure for sales, additional pay for dual certs, airfare allowance if you are travelling from a long distance?
c) Training - opportunities to train and improve as a professional - are there scholarships, in house training and access to senior instructors/examiners to help a pro on their career path?
d) Snow/Resort Type- large vs small vs powder vs terrain park destination vs local. Often linked to what direction an instructor wants to go in their career - a desire to progress to work in mechanized guiding - cat or heli would impact if you chose Vermont or BC. If you wanted to work with high net worth clients so destination vs local resorts- Whistler/Vail/Aspen vs Jackson/Red/Whitewater
e) Visa Sponsorship - can I work in that country? Will a resort help me secure a visa, many foreign instructors would be "loyal" to a resort that did this and would return year after year.
f) Benefits from the resort - food/lodging discounts, pass reciprocals, health insurance

I don't feel any of these are unreasonable for a professional?
 
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KingGrump

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While a day long private is exorbitant to most all of us, it's not to the regulars at Deer Valley, Aspen, etc...

Ain't that the truth.

Many do privates for
(01) Line cutting.
(02) A guide and/or someone to ski with.
(03) Get away from family. :duck: :ogbiggrin:
(04) An occasional tip on skiing.
 

Nancy Hummel

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So, a long time Aspen instructor told me that there are two kinds of instructors, 1. An escort. 2. An instructor who teaches, cares about improvement and whose student is willing to do the work.

There is a lid for every trashcan.

Give people what they want.

There are many people who can provide quality instruction.

Choose what you want.
 

Philpug

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Many do privates for
(01) Line cutting.
I had a friend that used to fly his helicopter from Sout Joyzee to Huntah Nuyawk. He had a spot in the corner of the lot that was "reserved' for him. He would get a private and his day was Hell-Eis-Quad, Hellgate-Eisenhower-Quad.
 

mikel

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Ain't that the truth.

Many do privates for
(01) Line cutting.
(02) A guide and/or someone to ski with.
(03) Get away from family. :duck: :ogbiggrin:
(04) An occasional tip on skiing.

And now some places even have some of these items as options for purchase. Want a shorter line? You can enjoy a premium experience by purchasing a Fast Tracks pass. Want a guide or someone to ski with? No need to pay the cost of a private. You can now hire an instructor as a guide for much less money. They will even provide the occasional tips. :beercheer:
 

crosscountry

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And now some places even have some of these items as options for purchase. Want a shorter line? You can enjoy a premium experience by purchasing a Fast Tracks pass. Want a guide or someone to ski with? No need to pay the cost of a private. You can now hire an instructor as a guide for much less money. They will even provide the occasional tips. :beercheer:
where?
 

Seldomski

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Different flavors of instruction are available in Europe - off/on piste guide vs on lessons. Price differences among ski schools. Haven't seen it much within one resort in US. Other option is to travel specifically to a resort based on the ski school products (or do a clinic/camp that is somewhere for a specific week).

Breckenridge has some different types of instruction, but the price is not discounted between an advanced 'guided group' vs intermediate group lesson.
 

markojp

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Big difference skiing off piste in Europe a la avy control, etc. Guides there keep you alive (and have rigorous certification standard), while in resort 'guides' here provide a courtesy service.

A ski instructor in Europe, to the best of my understanding, teaches skiing with no guiding, though a guide could be hired in addition to an instructor, or one could have both their instructor and guide certs. I could be wrong though.
..
 

fatbob

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Big difference skiing off piste in Europe a la avy control, etc. Guides there keep you alive (and have rigorous certification standard), while in resort 'guides' here provide a courtesy service.

A ski instructor in Europe, to the best of my understanding, teaches skiing with no guiding, though a guide could be hired in addition to an instructor, or one could have both their instructor and guide certs. I could be wrong though.
..

Yeah not really so defined except in glaciated terrain where I understand that instructors are explicitly deterred/forbidden from leading. Guides are certainly highly qualified alpinists but will care little about your skiing style. But you can often hire instructors to do the same offpiste guiding job (ex glacier) and most decent instructors will oblige, certainly in their home areas, maybe even with some hints and tips thrown in. Most of the guiding, for example, in the Arlberg is done in Instructor groups rather than IFMGA led groups as I observe it unless the guides are wearing ski school uniforms.
 

crgildart

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I had a friend that used to fly his helicopter from Sout Joyzee to Huntah Nuyawk. He had a spot in the corner of the lot that was "reserved' for him. He would get a private and his day was Hell-Eis-Quad, Hellgate-Eisenhower-Quad.
Also Hell i Executed!
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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or one could have both their instructor and guide certs.
This was true when I spent time at the Bundessportheim in St. Christoph AUT. Some of those guys had spent 10 years reaching the highest level of certification which included glaciers & crevasse rescue.

Much of my time working at Powder Mountain in Utah was spent as an inbounds guide (no cert. requirement). It was a separate program from the Snowsports School & for around $100 each a day you & your group could hire a guide for the day. The cost also included a snowcat ride up lightning ridge.

Here’s a short we made for the Snowsports School but the Inbounds Guide program was the better deal…
 
Thread Starter
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SkiSchoolPros

SkiSchoolPros

Impact Ecosystem- ie.Money with Meaning
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So, a long time Aspen instructor told me that there are two kinds of instructors, 1. An escort.

Choose what you want.
A friend of an Aspen instructor made me aware of his P24s the last time the 3 of us skied together.
 

Sherman89

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Oct 16, 2019
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Nevada
Very interesting after reading all 10 pages, considering the pay scale for ski instructors I would like to compare to tennis instructors: it seems that the average wage for ski instructors seems to settle in the $12-16./hr range for most areas whereas the average tennis instructor range is the $45-70./hr range. The game is more or less the same with an actual 4-5 hr work day of actual pay. A golf pro range is $50-90,/hr, my question is why did the ski instructor get left behind over time as other sport coaches continued to gain in wages whereas the ski instructor has fallen behind on the pay scale and he has to pay for his equipment and apparel compared to the tennis or golf pro that shows up in shorts and shirt. The ski instruction industry does not seem to do a lot to push the wage question to ski resorts. Is it because ski resorts can continue to find beginner instructors to keep their schools going and if that is the case then I must assume that the paying students don't know any better. I owned a flight school that paid my flight instructors $20./flight hr over 20+ years ago. Food for thought
 

Rich_Ease_3051

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Is it because ski resorts can continue to find beginner instructors to keep their schools going and if that is the case then I must assume that the paying students don't know any better.

Exactomundo. Aussie, British, South American, and Eastern European ski bums who don't mind getting paid beer money for ski time. On top of retired oldie instructors who have pension and and other income streams that consider the extra $20/hr as an added bonus to teaching youngins how to ski and enjoy the mountain environment in the twilight of their years. And maybe a smattering of escorts, allegedly, who moonlight as instructors, whose main income stream is the former, and trust fund kids who don't really need the $20/hr but will take it and won't complain as they'll have a big pile of $$$ when the trust vests.
 
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