US Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit: snow-covered stumps are "an inherent risk of skiing, a sport as thrilling as it can be risky."

[Andy Mink]

There are stumps at Donner Lake that were cut during the infamous Donner Party incident. They were cut in the winter and are 15'-18' tall with one 22' stump. I could easily see a 6' stump at a ski area from a tree that had to be removed during winter. That said, cut it short when you can!

 

[pete]

The article does reference other state rulings so it stands to reason that these and this opinion would form basis of arguments in future lawsuits in other states, not just Wy.

Unfortunate the injury though, just bad luck.

 

[Wendy]

If the intent is for the area to be skiable, any cut vegetation should be cut as close to flush as possible.

While I understand this sentiment on behalf of skiers, I’d think the resort would also be carefully considering erosion control during the spring, and would want some level of vegetation there to absorb snowmelt and control water flow.

I vaguely recall hiking down a new, yet-to-be-opened ski run at Keystone many years ago while taking an environmental science course at CU-Boulder. We were specifically examining erosion control measures created by both deliberate earth moving and planting/managing vegetation. I wish I could remember the details as it was very interesting. It’s more complicated than just clearing an area for skier enjoyment/safety as what can occur via natural processes in the off-season can affect the viability of the ski run during winter.

Based on that experience, I would consider that stump cutting is done responsibly and an unusually high stump was there because at the time of cutting, it wasn’t possible to cut any lower.

When we ski an area to appreciate its natural beauty, we have to accept that there are natural obstacles there as well.

 

[Wendy]

There are stumps at Donner Lake that were cut during the infamous Donner Party incident. They were cut in the winter and are 15'-18' tall with one 22' stump. I could easily see a 6' stump at a ski area from a tree that had to be removed during winter. That said, cut it short when you can!

So cool. A testament to just how brutal that winter was for those poor folks.

 

[Cols714]

That's some bad luck for the skier.

 

[aveski]

I'm guessing the tree was cut in the winter. Standing on the ground and cutting the tree six feet above the ground would be difficult, unless your Paul Bunyan.

 

[pchewn]

Let's say you cut a tree off on Dec 23rd or so at Timberline Lodge. It would leave a 6' stump relative to the ground. By Jan 15th it would be covered in 1.5' of snow, and "safe" to ski over. By April 1st it would be under 9' of snow and won't be visible again until mid July or so.

If you wanted to cut it off at ground level, you have your chance between August and the end of October.

If the ice storm breaks off trees and branches in the winter you do what you can then, and clean it up when the snow has melted.

 

[sparty]

Unofficial networks (shockingly) provided useful additional content--a photo of the stump in question:

So while it is an inherent risk as a matter of law, that very much looks like a hazard that deserves further mitigation to me.

 

[Wendy]

Unofficial networks (shockingly) provided useful additional content--a photo of the stump in question:

So while it is an inherent risk as a matter of law, that very much looks like a hazard that deserves further mitigation to me.

Really?
That’s off piste? OK, I guess it was an ungroomed run. I was picturing this stump in the middle of a glade, but whatever.

Clearly that “stump” was cut when the snow level was higher, as multiple people have already stated. It’s leaning. So higher up, the part that was cut and has now been chipped or composted or cut into lumber was probably precariously leaning over the snow and had to be cut in winter. So if the snow was covering that now-cut stump, it was one of those hazards created by an excess of snow or a lack of snow, just like rocks exposed on the backs of moguls, refrozen crud or sticky snow that catches ones skis, tree wells, etc. The skier assumes the risk.

 

[François Pugh]

One more reason not to take the inside line on a blind corner! I avoid it due to line-of-sight versus speed of travel. Now I can add, trees might be hanging about close to the edge, just under the snow (trimmed or not).

 

[Wilhelmson]

One more reason not to take the inside line on a blind corner! I avoid it due to line-of-sight versus speed of travel. Now I can add, trees might be hanging about close to the edge, just under the snow (trimmed or not).

Rocks too.

 

[Andy Mink]

All one needs to do is look at some ski runs in the summer when the snow is gone. Rocks, stumps, dead fall trees, creeks, more rocks, rollers, water bars, bushes, brush, small trees, etc. On a low tide year or late and early in the season these things start to pop through or, worse, stay hidden just under the surface of the snow waiting to grab you. Just like the ocean, there are things that are bad for you which you cannot see.

 

[Slide of Hans]

All one needs to do is look at some ski runs in the summer when the snow is gone. Rocks, stumps, dead fall trees, creeks, more rocks, rollers, water bars, bushes, brush, small trees, etc. On a low tide year or late and early in the season these things start to pop through or, worse, stay hidden just under the surface of the snow waiting to grab you. Just like the ocean, there are things that are bad for you which you cannot see.

Very true- I took a fall in a glade at a Southern Vermont ski resort and lurking under the fluff was a spear like branch that went through my ski pant/ and under layer and ran up along the length of my leg, grazing the skin along the way. I was extremely lucky I didn’t fall a few inches in another direction.

After that, and hitting my knee on a 2-foot stump at another resort later that season, the snowpack better be deep with some hardpack in there to hold forest debris down, otherwise, I’m sticking to a trail. its just not worth it.

 

[Don in Morrison]

"...a sport as thrilling as it can be risky."
It's thrilling because it is risky. If you're looking for risk-free thrills, you'll be doomed to a life of bubble-wrapped boredom.

 

[pchewn]

The worst hidden obstacle I've hit was a loop of barbed wire poking out of the snow. I took a huge tumble and climbed back up to find my ski snagged on it. This was 1973 or so in one of Vail back bowls. I reported it to ski patrol for cutting or marking...

 

[Wendy]

Ah, you Westerners, and your obstacles!

Here in PA, at at least one resort, the snow buries manmade obstacles....water parks.
Here’s Montage’s ski lodge in summer:

And a view from the deck of that lodge looking out in early winter:

 

[Wendy]

All one needs to do is look at some ski runs in the summer when the snow is gone. Rocks, stumps, dead fall trees, creeks, more rocks, rollers, water bars, bushes, brush, small trees, etc. On a low tide year or late and early in the season these things start to pop through or, worse, stay hidden just under the surface of the snow waiting to grab you. Just like the ocean, there are things that are bad for you which you cannot see.

I went to a standup paddleboarding on Oahu. The first day, the first thing we learned from our instructor was, “The ocean wants to kill you” and we did a lot of open water swimming drills. Constant dangers were sharks, crashing waves on sharp rocks, and the incessant trade winds which sometimes wanted to blow us off our coastal routes. That was part of the thrill.

Obstacles in a low snow year aren’t exactly thrilling for me, though. It is instructive though to hike a ski area in summer if possible to see what’s really underneath all that white.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Yeah, there's risk ..... and then there's maimed for life/dead. My surprised-by-by-an-object-hidden-just-below-the-surface incident resulted in massive intestinal damage and being much too close to death for comfort. This was entirely on me, and was one of the driving reasons for now being strictly a groomer zoomer. There's more than enough risk on immaculately manicured piste to satisfy my thirst for thrills/risk.

 

[Wendy]

Yeah, there's risk ..... and then there's maimed for life/dead. My surprised-by-by-an-object-hidden-just-below-the-surface incident resulted in massive intestinal damage and being much too close to death for comfort. This was entirely on me, and was one of the driving reasons for now being strictly a groomer zoomer. There's more than enough risk on immaculately manicured piste to satisfy my thirst for thrills/risk.

Yikes!

 

[Don in Morrison]

My worst unseen hazard crash involved the left ski going under the end of a fallen tree while the right leg went past it. I spun around and landed on my back, hanging head first down the hill by the runaway strap on the ski that was wedged under the tree. I was unhurt, but it took considerable effort to extricate myself from the predicament.

A classmate from school had the misfortune of having both skis go under a fallen tree. He had some sore legs from hitting the tree before launching over it.