Useless or Pointless Drills or Exercises

[Aquila]

The problem can be many people interpret that as the way to ski. I’ve been asked that many times , even from random people on the lift. So they make large turns facing downhill the whole time. Or try to.

Yeah, this was me at some point in my skiing, before I started taking some semi-regular lessons (with decent instructors, luckily). Spending a lot of time on my own trying to ski like that honestly just set me up with some really bad habits, and incorrect body movements which got ingrained and proved difficult to undo.

Took quite a while to understand that it's more important when doing short turns in a narrow corridor, and big turns don't require the same amount of body twisting, hah. I didn't believe my instructor when they said that at first.

 

[ScotsSkier]

I have heard people say not to use any pole drills like the picture frame. A change in philosophy? I was taught using the picture frame

I have no idea (and don't really care!) what "people" may or may not say. I use drills that I hav found work to work to develop particular skills in my athletes (Note, I am a race coach, not an instructor so performance - and results - is much more important than philosophy! )

 

[François Pugh]

Some of these drills are just skills.
Hockey Stop -(done right though) THE way to stop or ditch speed in a hurry.
One-ski skiing - Comes in very handy when skiing faster than your legs could keep up in a run and a ski pops off (due to a rut or catching a mogul/bump you didn't get a good enough look at).
Dolphin turn - less often useful, but can be used to clear an obstacle.

The scratched goggles -LOL - just replicating race conditions. In the old days - I recall putting hockey tape over the goggle vents to avoid eyes tearing up at high speeds. Worked well, except the goggles would fog up fairly quickly. It took a while to find the balance point of how much blockage was right, and then you still sometimes got it wrong, and the goggles would fog up before you were done the run, but it's hard to stop when you don't want to. It's exciting skiing at warp schnell with foggy goggles.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Lol
For new skiers-
Personally, I wonder if the one footed scooter drill is worth much. It does get them moving and living in the equipment. Fail rate is huge, success - does it matter? You have to shift balance in a way you don’t while skiing.

If I had my way, we’d have a gentle bowl where people could glide for at least a halfhour and not worry about hitting someone or something. Not worry about stopping. Then sidestep up. Repeat.

I look at the scooter as an opportunity to coach tipping the feet in addition to fore-aft balance. By tipping, I mean not-tipping as not tipping is part of the tipping skill. If the ski is stuck on one edge, the skier won't be able to turn the ski without lifting it off the snow. Sure, people can do it in a way that is wrong and has no value, but that's why the instructor is there.

 

[JESinstr]

So what are your balancing drills?

It's not so much about drills as it is about achieving success.

I think we would agree that Dynamic Balance is about the controlling the relationship between the COM and BOS while on the move.

With the bottom of the ski providing a slippery/frictionless surface, it makes it very difficult for a beginner to control that relationship in a straight run and it becomes a matter of hit or miss or a substantial use of class time in order to achieve success.

By starting out in a wedge, the student is placed on their inside edges via a lifting of the outside edges. With the wedge providing opposing edges, the student now has a fairly solid BOS to balance against and can focus on the task of re-inventing their dynamic balance methodology through the arch. Being on the inside edges of their feet also helps the feeling sensations in the arch.

Once I see the new centered balance methodology taking hold, I implement a wide wedge, narrow wedge drill not only to introduce proper through the arch variation (Rotary) but to teach how to manage the resulting pressure. Interestingly it is the release of pressure vs application that is most important. Too many focus on the building of pressure when it is really about managing the release while maintaining the COM to BOS Relationship.

I have found that using this approach has allowed students to achieve more in less time.

 

[James]

Took quite a while to understand that it's more important when doing short turns in a narrow corridor, and big turns don't require the same amount of body twisting, hah. I didn't believe my instructor when they said that at first.

Lol, that’s the way things go. Humans are weird. Someone can learn, or hear, something years ago and turn it into the way. It gets imprinted. They never get any other coaching and that just stays with them. Then someone else years later has to convince them other wise.

Race coaching environment is totally different.

Partly why I loathe to talk about arms. Usually ruins the skiing. Taking away poles, or holding poles in the middle like a suitcase (Texas!) is often much better.

I look at the scooter as an opportunity to coach tipping the feet in addition to fore-aft balance. By tipping, I mean not-tipping as not tipping is part of the tipping skill. If the ski is stuck on one edge, the skier won't be able to turn the ski without lifting it off the snow. Sure, people can do it in a way that is wrong and has no value, but that's why the instructor is there.

Good point. I guess we always seem to be doing it in a tough spot. Sunday had a good spot except the snow was frozen solid with potholes of varying sizes. So couldn’t use that till the afternoon.

Once I see the new centered balance methodology taking hold, I implement a wide wedge, narrow wedge drill not only to introduce proper through the arch variation

Ok, so what do they do to get that sensation since they don’t glide straight first?

 

[mdf]

So they make large turns facing downhill the whole time. Or try to.

But if you’re going to make short turns in the fall line, then sure.

Took quite a while to understand that it's more important when doing short turns in a narrow corridor, and big turns don't require the same amount of body twisting, hah. I didn't believe my instructor when they said that at first.

15 years ago when I was rebuilding my skiing, I found the guidance on this issue extremely unclear.
It seemed to be a difference in schools of thought rather than applying to different turn sizes.
It took me a long time to figure out (even though it seems obvious in hindsight).

 

[James]

It seemed to be a difference in schools of thought rather than applying to different turn sizes.

Well I guess this is why it’s not used nearly as much. What was the instruction?

Facing downhill. Hands for the task.

Richie Berger skiing on boots. Facing downhill mostly. Different turns, different hands.

Mikaela slalom training. Mostly facing the coming gate.

Going into a flush, skis cross under, body faces “downhill” or direction of travel. You could set it across the hill somewhat. Then would you face downhill instead of direction of gates? No, that would be freakish.

I knew someone, rec skier, who used to ski with their hands in that position ^ - the whole time. (Don’t know how long that phase lasted) Truly odd. I suppose it was in response to some interpretation of something said about hands.

 

[JESinstr]

15 years ago when I was rebuilding my skiing, I found the guidance on this issue extremely unclear.
It seemed to be a difference in schools of thought rather than applying to different turn sizes.
It took me a long time to figure out (even though it seems obvious in hindsight).

Simply put, you endeavor your upper body to face direction of intended travel. Any countering is a resultant of separation due to edging methodology.

Ok, so what do they do to get that sensation since they don’t glide straight first?

Don't know exactly what you are asking. But the sensation of balancing through the arch is much more intense if you are on the inside edges of your feet (and skis) which the wedge environment provides. In a straight glide with the flat ski and frictionless situation, the skier, with his/her inbred bias to heel to toe balance will most likely use that mechanism should fear or uncertainty enter the picture. Not saying you can't get to a constant and solid center balance environment that way...after all that's the way it has been done forever.

 

[mdf]

Simply put, you endeavor your upper body to face direction of intended travel. Any countering is a resultant of separation due to edging methodology.

Yeah, that's what I eventually figured out. But why was that so hard to say clearly back them? For that matter, is it communicated clearly even today? (I've moved on, so I don't know.)

 

[HardDaysNight]

Partly why I loathe to talk about arms. Usually ruins the skiing. Taking away poles, or holding poles in the middle like a suitcase (Texas!) is often much better.

This is so true! Except in extremely rare cases, a focus on arms and poles (“Let’s work on your pole plants!”) is the last refuge of the clueless instructor who really doesn’t have any notion how actually to improve his client’s skiing.

 

[geepers]

Yeah, that's what I eventually figured out. But why was that so hard to say clearly back them? For that matter, is it communicated clearly even today? (I've moved on, so I don't know.)

 

[James]

Don't know exactly what you are asking

How you are working on “balance”. Things you have people do or tell them.

 

[Tricia]

Is it me or has this thread turned into a "helpful drills" thread?

 

[JESinstr]

How you are working on “balance”. Things you have people do or tell them.

In order to balance, you need something to balance against and a slippery slope with a flat ski does not provide an optimal opportunity for rapid sucess IMO. That's why I go directly to the wedge configuration where the student is on the inside edges of their feet balancing against steel edges that are embedded in the surface. It is in this environment that the skier can have stability to work on and get sufficient feedback from a centered balance methodology. The only exercise needed from there is the wider wedge narrower wedge drill with focus on proper release of pressure and ski redirection around the center of the foot vs heel push. New skiers don't need to learn balance they just need to learn a new way to balance.

 

[Henry]

The best drill which is done for a short time is pointless and useless. A drill needs to be continued until the skier is making the movements correctly and without thinking through each element. When things are going well and one's mind wanders...then the drill has been a success. And, of course, the drill needs to be appropriate to the situation. An instructor going through every drill in their repertoire without picking the one or two that are meaningful to the students' needs that day is just wasting everyone's time.

 

[ss20]

The way I use it Bob is with the poles vertical as a picture frame. The athlete then focuses on a feature at the bottom of the hill and has to keep that feature within the picture frame. This effectively helps them keep the upper body in the fall line

Yes. I love this drill. It's also one of the ones with the highest success rates among my students. They see themselves "skiing like the instructor" with a calm upper body and they can "feel" the skis turning underneath them.

What was the reasoning against it?

 

[ss20]

My least favorite drill is a "taught" S-turn. That's not a drill...that's just skiing...and shows you're successful at turn shape. And how often do us as skiers want/need to make the exact same radius turn over and over again? Never unless you're on a slope completely devoid of pitch change or direction change. I prefer teaching my beginner skiers the broader concepts of speed control so they can figure out for themselves (with some of my guidance as necessary) what they have to do to control their speed. I'd rather see them make turn shapes of all kinds of shapes/sizes, mimicking what they'll be doing on the hill. Making the same shallow turn over and over is not helpful. When I'm teaching kids I set up "gates" of cones all over the hill...shallow turns, wide turns, sections where the student builds speed, etc.

 

[Rdputnam515]

I have no idea (and don't really care!) what "people" may or may not say. I use drills that I hav found work to work to develop particular skills in my athletes (Note, I am a race coach, not an instructor so performance - and results - is much more important than philosophy! )

Our race coach made us do the vert pole thing, one ski drills and dynamic unweighting drills where you throw (for lack of a better term) both arms into your turns, and all manner of craziness.

i learned more about skiing from John than I ever did as an instructor or in any instructor clinic I have been to.

and years after I was done racing, I saw John on the hill and he challenged me and another past teammate and ski buddy to parallel slalom race at a winter carnival.

over 30 years later he is still Coaching.

sorry for the trip down memory lane lol. adults that want to learn how to really ski at a high level should give a beer league race club a try. Great fun and superb instruction. And if possible, get your kids into club racing, it’s fantastic all the way up through HS and into adulthood.

 

[geepers]

What drills or exercises do you see instructors have their students do that make you scratch your head? The pointless or useless drills that do nothing to further their progress, or may actually set them back?. I'm sure some of you have seen a few. Are there some that you find very simple and effective? Just wondering so I wont make those mistakes.

Is it really useless or pointless drills? Based on my experience with CSIA in both lessons and certification and from posts in this thread seems more likely that the issue is inadequate explanation of the purpose of the drill and/or inappropriate drill selection for the students/conditions.

Ideally the instructor should select a drill to develop some aspect of the students' skiing, that the students are going to be able to execute in the conditions - set the students up for success - and explain how/what/why of the drill with enough detail so the students understand cause and effect - doing this results in that outcome.

Of course "ideally" doesn't always happen as we read above. Weirdest one I ever experienced was a double pole plant with both poles planted to the inside of the new turn. It's unnerving - feels like any turn now it's going to be a pole handle meets face. No explanation. WTF. Took some time to figure out the purpose of that one.