Useless or Pointless Drills or Exercises

[Rdputnam515]

Is it really useless or pointless drills? Based on my experience with CSIA in both lessons and certification and from posts in this thread seems more likely that the issue is inadequate explanation of the purpose of the drill and/or inappropriate drill selection for the students/conditions.

Ideally the instructor should select a drill to develop some aspect of the students' skiing, that the students are going to be able to execute in the conditions - set the students up for success - and explain how/what/why of the drill with enough detail so the students understand cause and effect - doing this results in that outcome.

Of course "ideally" doesn't always happen as we read above. Weirdest one I ever experienced was a double pole plant with both poles planted to the inside of the new turn. It's unnerving - feels like any turn now it's going to be a pole handle meets face. No explanation. WTF. Took some time to figure out the purpose of that one.

I remember those!

 

[geepers]

Well I guess this is why it’s not used nearly as much. What was the instruction?


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Facing downhill. Hands for the task.

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Richie Berger skiing on boots. Facing downhill mostly. Different turns, different hands.

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Mikaela slalom training. Mostly facing the coming gate.

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Going into a flush, skis cross under, body faces “downhill” or direction of travel. You could set it across the hill somewhat. Then would you face downhill instead of direction of gates? No, that would be freakish.

I knew someone, rec skier, who used to ski with their hands in that position ^ - the whole time. (Don’t know how long that phase lasted) Truly odd. I suppose it was in response to some interpretation of something said about hands.

Another one to add to that collection.

 

[James]

Another one to add to that collection.

Too short at 50 cm.
100% dorks. If you want to know why kids went to snowboards in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, that’s it.

 

[geepers]

Too short at 50 cm.
100% dorks. If you want to know why kids went to snowboards in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, that’s it.

Reilly and Geri the dorks? Yeah, nah.

Teach a thing or two about fore aft balance. Good luck anyone trying to pressure the crap out of the boot tongue with those.

 

[James]

Reilly and Geri the dorks?

Total.
I’m taking up snow boarding!

 

[hollyberry]

Had a SSD once make us pull our hats down over our eyes and 'try' to ski. The idea was to experience sensory deprivation, the results were carnage. We only did that once.
Not a drill but part of a university experiment. They squirted ice water in our inner ear to see if it would distort our balance badly; it worked.

OMG! These both sound terrible and frightening!!!

 

[James]

Not a drill but part of a university experiment. They squirted ice water in our inner ear to see if it would distort our balance badly; it worked.

I knew an ER doc in an inner city years ago who used that to test for consciousness. People in the area got very good at pretending to be unconscious so they could ignore all the usual tests for consciousness, to stay the night in hospital. The response of the eyes is involuntary to cold water in the ear.

 

[JFB]

Late to the party, but I'll toss out leapers.

And guided discovery. Just tell me what I should be doing/trying/refining at the outset - I don't need to reinvent the wheel.

That said, I recognize that different thing resonate with different people, so YMMV.

 

[ss20]

Late to the party, but I'll toss out leapers.

And guided discovery. Just tell me what I should be doing/trying/refining at the outset - I don't need to reinvent the wheel.

That said, I recognize that different thing resonate with different people, so YMMV.

I'm a big fan of guided discovery/experimentation at the lower levels actually, especially with kids. Adults, too, for levels 1/2 when we're on the carpet/tow/small chair and try different things quickly.

Here's a situation I had a week ago with a never-ever adult. We had done a couple of runs on the tow with successful turns.

*top of the tow slope*
ss20- I want you to think about where your weight/pressure distribution is as we make our turns here.
*at the bottom*
Student- There's more weight on my outside foot than my inside foot
ss20- Yep! (then went into a bit more detail about 60/40 pressure split, but essentially told him he's good).

Now...at the top...had I said something like "as we make our turns, I want you to feel more pressure on your outside foot"... this guy probably would've drilled his outside foot into the darn ground or kicked it out or done all kinds of bad/weird stuff. So...I definitely feel it's a scenario where it works and there's certainly others. Pressure distribution is something he should be aware of. Since he was already doing it correctly, I'd rather have him give me the answer than have me explain it, and risk having the student change something they were already doing well.


For me in my skiing, I've done best when I am led to the answer rather than fed it. I think in some cases that CAN translate well with clients. Especially at the lower levels where sooooo much of what we do is "command"/talk/explain.

 

[JFB]

I certainly recognize the potential for guided discovery but have yet to use it successfully myself or have it used successfully on myself. I'll happily to cop to my shortcomings - it's a very different way of thinking that my brain really hasn't groked from either side of the equation.

 

[Pandita]

For the first-time on skis I no longer do the one-footed drills and just move to directly to getting both skis on. I find it help to move directly to both skis versus shifting weight from one to the other. I don't do pole drills because first time on skis the focus really is on getting them sliding on skis. The pole are all over the place anyways.

Other balancing drills I have used are the pinwheel and having the student turn themselves around by sliding one ski into a wedge and then sliding the other ski to match it paralell. Continue until the student can turn themselves in a circle.

 

[DavidSkis]

Hi everyone

My sense is every exercise has something fundamentally "wrong" with it - otherwise it would just be good skiing. So you have to decide if a given exercise isolates the good movement patterns that you want to create, to a higher level than the interruptions (or omissions of movements) introduced into the skier's skiing.

I don't use thousand steps, tapping on the inside ski or any other exercise that disrupts pressure or lateral balance. (I'd rather see a Stork turn/flamingo turn, where the tip of the inside ski stays on the snow, than tapping.)

For most skiers a javelin turn is too difficult and unhelpful. I haven't gotten good results from even advanced learners with it (It's great for an advanced instructor to diagnose what's going on across the planes of balance though).

Spiess is physically hard on joints and I'm not convinced it reinforces good patterns.

Hip-o-meter is cumbersome when you could just put hands on hips instead to feel the direction of the pelvis.

"Plant the pole and ski around it" sets the skier up for rotating into turns for the rest of their life...

Introducing gate blocking before consolidating skills to make round turns in brushes and stubbies leads to z-turns.

 

[Chipped K2]

Like others have said, the "one ski on/ other ski off walk around in a circle" drill.

I finally dropped that in my lesson. Actually the ski resort I worked at had a bid list of things to cover, that frankly, were impossible to cover in the short span of the lesson. Management was oblivious to this.

 

[razie]

The most worse-than-useless thing I ever had to do was steering in a "gliding wedge". If you've done lots of wedges, it's perhaps an ok contortion, but as a first-timer edgie-wedger, I found it plain stupid. It kills the knees and if that's what first-timers are subjected to, no wonder they don't come back. We had to specifically twist both feet, not shift weight!! In a wedge!

The second would be Spiess.

+1 on cross-blocking, it's a very bad idea too early.

 

[jimtransition]

The most worse-than-useless thing I ever had to do was steering in a "gliding wedge". If you've done lots of wedges, it's perhaps an ok contortion, but as a first-timer edgie-wedger, I found it plain stupid. It kills the knees and if that's what first-timers are subjected to, no wonder they don't come back. We had to specifically twist both feet, not shift weight!! In a wedge!

The second would be Spiess.

+1 on cross-blocking, it's a very bad idea too early.

Spiess are the best! Way better than pivot slips (haven't done or taught them in years)

 

[James]

The most worse-than-useless thing I ever had to do was steering in a "gliding wedge". If you've done lots of wedges, it's perhaps an ok contortion, but as a first-timer edgie-wedger, I found it plain stupid. It kills the knees and if that's what first-timers are subjected to, no wonder they don't come back. We had to specifically twist both feet, not shift weight!! In a wedge!

What a nightmare!
Can’t imagine how Beat Feuz managed to shake it off.

 

[razie]

What a nightmare!
Can’t imagine how Beat Feuz managed to shake it off.

Probably by not gliding with weight on both legs all the time while trying to point the feet this way and that way... plus shifting weight and pushing the skis around as needed... I think they call that using an outside ski every now and then

Not talking about a simple gliding wedge, that task was the opposite of everything I try to or might do while skiing and I'm pretty sure the dude was serious!

 

[razie]

Spiess are the best! Way better than pivot slips (haven't done or taught them in years)

Don't like them at all, honestly... even beyond the hopping aspect and making me work hard, I prefer pivot slips any day of the week well, not because of the pivots obviously but because of the separation they teach. It's the single best drill for separation for me.

The release drills are the next favorites, but they consume separation and unteach pivoting

Flappers (dolphins) are different. Those are not useless, but I hate them period.

 

[jimtransition]

Don't like them at all, honestly... even beyond the hopping aspect and making me work hard, I prefer pivot slips any day of the week well, not because of the pivots obviously but because of the separation they teach. It's the single best drill for separation for me.

The release drills are next, but they use separation and unteach pivoting

Flappers (dolphins) are different. Those are not useless, but I hate them period.

I feel like spiess work on the same thing as pivot slips, but with the added benefit of a hard edge set and being dynamic. Pivot slips are passably good for separation, but the slipping aspect is too far removed from a good turn for me. Don't get me started on how stupid the ones where you go backwards as well are

 

[geepers]

It kills the knees and if that's what first-timers are subjected to, no wonder they don't come back. We had to specifically twist both feet, not shift weight!! In a wedge!

That's crackers. The intent is to turn the femur in the hip socket. Should feel the glutes and external rotators, not the knees. Knees should be happy little joints since they shouldn't be doing much. (CSIA have been pile-driving that into me since L1.)

That instructor was flying solo, there a miscommunication or it was some special situation.

The second would be Spiess.

Not sure spiess are useless however the plyometric aspect is a problem for those with challenged joints. Spiess fans, ( @jimtransition ) please find another way that is less impactive. Preferably something that doesn't involve both skis leaving the snow at the same time.