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eBike USFS Designates E-Bikes “Motorized Vehicles”

Andy Mink

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All in fun...

279949172_10221451773186757_3833576262818290744_n.jpg
 

Tom K.

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Couldn't agree more. 750 watts...think about that.

You know that's the size of the battery, right, not the motor's power rating?

IMO the key to the USFS decision is as follows, provided the lunkheads exercise some common sense in this area:

"gives local land managers the decision-making power to allow or disallow e-bikes on non-motorized trails"
 

Rod9301

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You know that's the size of the battery, right, not the motor's power rating?

IMO the key to the USFS decision is as follows, provided the lunkheads exercise some common sense in this area:

"gives local land managers the decision-making power to allow or disallow e-bikes on non-motorized trails"
The battery is 750 wh, watts are a measure of power.
 

Tom K.

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The battery is 750 wh, watts are a measure of power.

Exactly my point, so thanks, I guess?

But people get confused on units. It seemed to me that @scott43 thought an e-mtb produces 750 watts of power. While a lot of e-mtbs have 750 wh batteries, the newest Bosch motor produces 350 watts of power, and 75 nM of torque.

There is no e-mtb I know of with a 750 watt motor. If there is, I'd LOVE to take it for a spin. Vroom Vroom!!!
 

dbostedo

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Tom K.

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2000+ watts, or more than 2 horsepower, if I read it correctly.

That looks fascinating -- though it may be exactly what people fear w/r/t e-mtbs. Most of the "major" players in the e-mtb world are using currently available motor combos from Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose, and these generally top out at ~350 watts of power.

Thanks for the link. Will have to peruse in detail AFTER WE GO SLAY SOME MOAB SLICKROCK!!!
 

dbostedo

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though it may be exactly what people fear w/r/t e-mtbs.
That's what I was thinking... they have a little section in the article about "why not just buy a motorbike?"... and they answer it pretty well, but that thing can do almost 30 MPH and certainly isn't close to a regular MTB.
 

Andy Mink

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Lauren

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2000+ watts, or more than 2 horsepower, if I read it correctly.
This is the reason there are multiple classes for ebikes, and why there should be different rules depending on which class they fall into. The last sentence of the article should be highlighted: "That being said, of course this type of power isn’t meant for bike lane commuting or even typical mountain bike trails. There’s some serious responsibility that comes with operating a machine like this."

Then there's the question, is more power "better". The answer is complicated and really depends on what you're looking to get out of your ride. I think the fact that many manufacturers are making smaller minimalist motors and battery systems is proof that not everyone is looking for more power.

I just went down the rabbit hole of reading logistics of how an ebike pedal assist works...actually really interesting stuff (yes, I'm a nerd...I know). But I stumbled upon this survey by E-MountainBike Magazine. I thought 16,000+ readers' responses was a pretty solid sample size. Keeping in mind this was mostly European respondents, and thus from locations where eMTB has taken off compared to the US.

One statistic that brought me to the article was: "as little as 5% spend the majority of their time aboard the bike in the highest support mode. 38% predominantly use the lowest mode, which would be Eco mode aboard Bosch and Shimano powered eMTBs." This tells me that most people that are on e-bikes are still out there for the exercise and the mountain bike experience...not the more power is better, dirt-bike-like experience.
 

Andy Mink

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One statistic that brought me to the article was: "as little as 5% spend the majority of their time aboard the bike in the highest support mode. 38% predominantly use the lowest mode, which would be Eco mode aboard Bosch and Shimano powered eMTBs." This tells me that most people that are on e-bikes are still out there for the exercise and the mountain bike experience...not the more power is better, dirt-bike-like experience.
This is me. I am usually in Eco, with bumps into Tour on steeper stuff. That doesn't mean I'm going fast. I rarely use Emtb (Bosch's smart mode) or Turbo. Honestly, Turbo is too much on trails but it is nice for getting home on the streets quickly. I also try and ride as much as possible in the OFF mode. Of course, that isn't very easy on a 50# bike.
 
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One statistic that brought me to the article was: "as little as 5% spend the majority of their time aboard the bike in the highest support mode. 38% predominantly use the lowest mode, which would be Eco mode aboard Bosch and Shimano powered eMTBs." This tells me that most people that are on e-bikes are still out there for the exercise and the mountain bike experience...not the more power is better, dirt-bike-like experience.
This is exactly what I have found in my riding experiences.
 

Andy Mink

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This video is a good listen (caution, coarse language). It revolves mostly around e-motorcycles but has a bit of e-mtb history and a world class trail builder's quick assessment of the damage that e-mtb cause on trails.
 
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Seldomski

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Legally classifying eBike as 'non motorized' for paved roadway/sidewalk/dirt road use makes sense (ie roadways designed for cars or heavy pedestrian traffic).

That classification makes less sense when you are talking about trails where surface durability and sensitivity of the ecosystem is highly variable and specific to the trail. Changing the classification in the context of trails makes sense to me, especially when also giving local trail managers authority to give a 'thumbs up' to some classes of eBikes on a case-by-case basis.

I also see a couple of longer term issues. Electric motors can pack a lot of power into an incredibly small and silent package. Battery tech is also continuing to advance. So there is a risk that eBikes in 10 years could be a lot more powerful while outwardly still appearing to be a class 1. I also wonder about fire risk... what about in 10+ years, are all the eBike batteries still in use going to be safe? Putting out a battery fire in a remote location is not easy. Squirting your water bottle on it will make it much worse.
 

scott43

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I don't see the trail damage as an issue personally..I've done downhill with tires that shred skin and destroyed trails... I think it's part of the deal with MTB.. Red herring..
 

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