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eBike USFS Designates E-Bikes “Motorized Vehicles”

Andy Mink

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View attachment 168857
These e-burnout marks were all over the rail trail yesterday.
Do we know what class ebike did that? Or was it a tool on a regular bike just spinning tires in a low gear? We did that as kids with our bikes way back in the day, no e needed. If it was an ebike and people saw it, then it becomes an "educational opportunity" to explain the pitfalls to operator. @Erik Timmerman, I'm not saying you are wrong, just exploring other possibilities. Just like when I see tire tracks off the side of a trail I can't tell what kind of bike made those tracks.
 

raisingarizona

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This was simply the FS's way to make it look like they're addressing a problem while in reality won't be doing anything about it. The FS LEO's don't have time for this, it's not really an issue to them. they are way too cash strapped and understaffed to go after people recreating on bikes with batteries.

When someone calls to check in on a report they had made about illegal E-bike use on public lands.....

"Hey, man, are you gonna find these guys? Or, you know, I mean... You got any promising leads or..." The Dude

"Leads? Yeah. Sure. I'll just check with the boys down at the crime lab. They got four more detectives working on the case. They got us working in shifts!" Young Police Officer
 

raisingarizona

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I don't see the trail damage as an issue personally..I've done downhill with tires that shred skin and destroyed trails... I think it's part of the deal with MTB.. Red herring..
If it even was you could create a small tax on their sales and put it toward state trail maintenance and development
 

James

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This was simply the FS's way to make it look like they're addressing a problem while in reality won't be doing anything about it. The FS LEO's don't have time for this, it's not really an issue to them. they are way too cash strapped and understaffed to go after people recreating on bikes with batteries.

When someone calls to check in on a report they had made about illegal E-bike use on public lands.....

"Hey, man, are you gonna find these guys? Or, you know, I mean... You got any promising leads or..." The Dude

"Leads? Yeah. Sure. I'll just check with the boys down at the crime lab. They got four more detectives working on the case. They got us working in shifts!" Young Police Officer
True, but if something happens the policy will be hauled out. If an ebike mows someone down where not allowed to be, then the policy will be cited forthwith.
 

raisingarizona

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True, but if something happens the policy will be hauled out. If an ebike mows someone down where not allowed to be, then the policy will be cited forthwith.
Ya, I could see that for sure. That's fair imo.
 

Tricia

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Yeah, I experienced that too. It was fun.

But I’m one of those who enjoys the quad burn and searing lungs feeling on uphill climbs; that creates the endorphin rush at the end for me.
Same here. I like the excercise but not the full on burn of legs and lungs from allergies.
View attachment 168857
These e-burnout marks were all over the rail trail yesterday.
That wasn't caused by an e-bike. That was caused by an asshole, no matter what he/she was riding.
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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That wasn't caused by an e-bike. That was caused by an asshole, no matter what he/she was riding.
Funny, I just saw a similer hole a the trail we ride and it make me think of @Erik Timmerman's post. I thought to myself, how could I create a rut like that? Even in turbo, all you are going to get is one half of a pedal stroke. His picture and what I saw was done with something with a throttle, not asomething with pedals.
 

Tom K.

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This was simply the FS's way to make it look like they're addressing a problem while in reality won't be doing anything about it. The FS LEO's don't have time for this, it's not really an issue to them. they are way too cash strapped and understaffed to go after people recreating on bikes with batteries.

I wish this were true. My firsthand experience -- though very dated and related to dirt bikes -- indicates that the USFS has plenty of budget and enthusiasm for rule breakers.

And near zero for actual criminals burgling autos at trailheads.

Funny, I just saw a similar hole a the trail we ride and it make me think of @Erik Timmerman's post. I thought to myself, how could I create a rut like that? Even in turbo, all you are going to get is one half of a pedal stroke. His picture and what I saw was done with something with a throttle, not something with pedals.

You're right, that's got to be an e-bike with throttle control. Which emphatically belong only on motorized trails.

But, as @Tricia pointed out, that's an asshole track, regardless of the vehicle they were operating.
 

Rod9301

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I for one I'm going to keep riding my e mountain bike.
Even if i get a ticket.
Wrong laws should not be obeyed.
 

Andy Mink

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I for one I'm going to keep riding my e mountain bike.
Even if i get a ticket.
Wrong laws should not be obeyed.
I saw on a FB post someone said if they get a ticket he'll ask for 10 more so he can take care of it all at once.:geek::roflmao:
 

Mike Thomas

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Attitudes like Rod9301's are going to get ALL cyclists excluded from trails, that is next level asshole behavior. Wrong laws need to be changed, not ignored at the expense of others.
That wasn't caused by an e-bike. That was caused by an asshole, no matter what he/she was riding.
Why are so many eBikers such entitled douchebags? Cool story bro, you bought an $8k toy and now you've got a sandy crotch because there are rules you don't like. The rules were there before you spent your $$$. WTF is wrong with you?

I am pro-ebike, but this makes my blood boil. Don't like the status quo? Change it. Don't risk other trail users access to trails that they worked to earn.
 

Andy Mink

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Why are so many eBikers such entitled douchebags?
Wow. Just wow. That's a mighty broad brush you're painting with. When @Philpug and I were out working on the one of the trails on Saturday we saw several riders. You know who was causing the most damage? The dudes who are skilled riders on analog bikes jamming on the brakes on switch backs and rutting out and knocking rocks loose on the trail we just cleaned up. The two ebikers we saw came down without any dust, rocks flying, or other damage.

Your comment about "worked to earn it"...what does that even mean? Do you mean they didn't help build the trail? Do you mean they don't have to pedal quite as hard?

I think e-bikers are willing to work to change the status quo but knowing how long it takes for the USFS to get anything done, we're not enthused about the inevitable wait. I've emailed our local office twice and have heard what I expected: nothing.

Regarding the rules before I bought my bike, the USFS didn't have a solid determination of whether an ebike (of any class) was a motorized vehicle or not. They just clarified that a few weeks ago. If someone wants to drop several grand for an analog bike for me, I'm down with that. If not, I'll be riding my ebike.
 

Mike Thomas

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Imagine if I said- "The Skier's Responsibility Code really doesn't work for me. I am just going to ignore it because rules that don't favor my interests don't need to be followed."

What do I mean about "worked for it"? I mean work with 'the powers that be' to get access legitimately. Yes, it takes years and years. Sometimes, you fundraise, build and then lose access to the trails you built. That sucks, but it is what I have been doing for over 30 years. I've been on trail committees, I've been on boards, I've sat with landowners and selectmen. I've done thousands of hours of trailwork. There are tens of thousands of other cyclists like me all over the country. When we weren't given access we didn't ride anyway in those places, we built 'pirate trails' elsewhere which often became legitimate trail networks eventually. Try either of those things. This "f*ck you, Ima ride wherever I want' attitude is douchebaggery. There are plenty of non-USFS places to ride bikes. There are landowners who own large tracts of land... there are options. Find one. It's what I've done. It works. Flaunting the rules in the face of land managers DOES NOT.
 

Mike Thomas

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I mean, you sound like a snowboarder that shows up at Alta and throws a hissy fit about being oppressed'. The rules are there, they were there. You can't pretend that you were blindsided by them.

The USFS has banned motorized vehicles for eons. Your ebike has a motor. It does. The bike retail industry and ebikers are working hard to rewrite the definition of 'motorized' but you don't get to pretend that your bike doesn't have a motor as originally defined by 'motorized vehicle'. You didn't get the rug pulled out from under you.
 

Andy Mink

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I mean, you sound like a snowboarder that shows up at Alta and throws a hissy fit about being oppressed'. The rules are there, they were there. You can't pretend that you were blindsided by them.

The USFS has banned motorized vehicles for eons. Your ebike has a motor. It does. The bike retail industry and ebikers are working hard to rewrite the definition of 'motorized' but you don't get to pretend that your bike doesn't have a motor as originally defined by 'motorized vehicle'. You didn't get the rug pulled out from under you.
I disagree. The USFS did not have opinion on ebikes, on paper, until recently. Ebikes have received different definitions across the board.

I thank you for your hours building trail. Now it's my turn. But why should I help build trails on grounds that I can't ride? I'm planning on going out tomorrow to help. I don't have even 10s of hours yet but I'm working on it. Being considered a douchebag because I'm riding where I did last year before USFS defined ebikes as motorized isn't really making me want to help.
 

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