eBike USFS Designates E-Bikes “Motorized Vehicles”

[Philpug]

Imagine if I said- "The Skier's Responsibility Code really doesn't work for me. I am just going to ignore it because rules that don't favor my interests don't need to be followed."

What do I mean about "worked for it"? I mean work with 'the powers that be' to get access legitimately. Yes, it takes years and years. Sometimes, you fundraise, build and then lose access to the trails you built. That sucks, but it is what I have been doing for over 30 years. I've been on trail committees, I've been on boards, I've sat with landowners and selectmen. I've done thousands of hours of trailwork. There are tens of thousands of other cyclists like me all over the country. When we weren't given access we didn't ride anyway in those places, we built 'pirate trails' elsewhere which often became legitimate trail networks eventually. Try either of those things. This "f*ck you, Ima ride wherever I want' attitude is douchebaggery. There are plenty of non-USFS places to ride bikes. There are landowners who own large tracts of land... there are options. Find one. It's what I've done. It works. Flaunting the rules in the face of land managers DOES NOT.

I tried to read this at the speed and anger you posted it with. You are correct but don't make the exception the rule. Yes, there are people who ignore laws and I am not going to say that some laws are more important than others because there is no where that line can be drawn. I agree with you in that I/we do not condone nor endorse the blatant disregard mentioned earlier in this thread, if someone wants to ride in areas where it is clearly prohibited, that is on them and should not be reflected on everyone.

I have said early on, that there is a division being created here that isn't helping either sides. Could eMTB's be the cause of the loss of trails? Yes, but if that happens, that will not be coming from that side, but from the regular bikers making the noise, I discussed that HERE.

I also have been riding for 30 years, off and on but I have earned my time too. Like @Andy Mink said, we also work on trails, we did last Saturday and will again tomorrow. While working this past weekend, it was a group of 8 riders (on regular bikes) that were rooster tailing around corners that negated the work we just finished, not the 4 eMTB'er that were much more respectful.

The President and Vice President of our local trail stewardship either own or have access to eMTBs and we asked them what is approved where we ride. They said it is still under discussion but until it is determined, it is not an issue to ride. I hate saying "every" but almost every rider I see that is on an eMTB is an experienced rider and understands etiquette but I also know that is not the case every where especially in resort areas where there are a lot of rentals and usually those are inexperienced riders.

Lastly, before we start throwing stones, make sure we are not in a glass house and that we might never have driven after having one or three too many beers. Lets make sure we never rolled through a stop sign, the ones with the optional white border. But I agree that blatantly disregarding the rules hurts everyone, no matter if you agree with them or not.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Biktrix XD unveiled as mind-bogglingly powerful electric bike motor with 300 Nm of torque

Canadian electric bike company Biktrix has never shied away from high-power motors. Several of the brand’s e-bikes feature what used...

electrek.co

2000+ watts, or more than 2 horsepower, if I read it correctly.

I am maybe OK with lighter ebikes but definitely don’t want to see that beast with the motorcycle chain out there. Among other things, we’d have to rethink the whole ‘yield to the uphill rider’ idea, when the uphill rider is silently booking along at 30+ mph. The new rule would have to be, yield to everyone else if you are driving something with a motorcycle chain. But then the technology would be different next year anyway.

Cool video and bike, just keep that kind of power where the other motorized dirtbikes are allowed. If it needs a motorcycle chain….

 

[Tom K.]

Lastly, before we start throwing stones, make sure we are not in a glass house and that we might never have driven after having one or three too many beers. Lets make sure we never rolled through a stop sign, the ones with the optional white border. But I agree that blatantly disregarding the rules hurts everyone, no matter if you agree with them or not.

Or ever driven over the posted speed limit?!

 

[wiread]

I'm a rule breaker, and so are my kids. I'm kind of proud, but what a PITA they are to raise LOL


I don't think all rules are equal. ie, i've never bought a license for my dogs, I never will. #1 there are 1453 laws on the books concerning dogs already and mine don't bark, they aren't outside, they will bite you if I tell them too, they have never bitten anyone they weren't supposed to, they don't wander, breed, harass livestock or wildlife, they are under control leashed or not, well all of them up until my current one

I used to take them to unused parks all the time because I'd be the only person there even though NO DOGS were allowed. The police used to come watch me. It was great proofing to lay a track across a complex that just saw a soccer tournament the day before. But I think a lot of laws like that just make it worse in the long run as it mostly just punishes people who are respectful and don't cause any problems.

 

[tball]

Or ever driven over the posted speed limit?!

My feeling is it depends where you are speeding, and where e-bikers are cheating.

On some trails, it doesn't matter much, like speeding on the interstate. On others, it matters a lot, like speeding in a school zone.

 

[Rod9301]

My feeling is it depends where you are speeding, and where e-bikers are cheating.

On some trails, it doesn't matter much, like speeding on the interstate. On others, it matters a lot, like speeding in a school zone.

I am cheating on all the trails in Tahoe

 

[tball]

I am cheating on all the trails in Tahoe

Interstate highway or school zone trails?

 

[Tricia]

Coincidently Grant Gunderson posted this on Instagram
He has some interesting perspective.

Transition Bikes

29 Inch Wheels / 160mm Travel / Buckle up and get ready to charge, the Repeater is down for anything. With 160mm travel, 29 inch wheels, the Shimano EP8 motor system, and a 630w battery, you can maximize fun on the ups and the downs.

www.transitionbikes.com

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Opens up new terrain. What does that mean? For a bunch of professional riders does it mean previously unclimbably steep trails? Is that a good thing?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/05/20/e-bike-regulation-discussion-‘eye-opener’-industry#.YpJBwC-B3pA

 

[Tricia]

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/05/20/e-bike-regulation-discussion-‘eye-opener’-industry#.YpJBwC-B3pA

Pizzi chairs PeopleForBikes E-bike subcommittee and is chief commercial officer of Alta Cycling Group. He spoke after Jones and Pritchard and had some simple advice: After enjoying years of steady growth, the industry is in a position to get ahead of the regulators with education and careful attention to regulations and safety.

“Let’s not screw it up,” he said from the stage.
^^^^This line resonates with me^^^^

 

[Don in Morrison]

How long before e-bikes are banned from urban and suburban bike trails for the same reason?

 

[4ster]

I thought this was a pretty in depth article with no real consensus & lots of grey area.

An electric bike rode into the backcountry. Now there's a nationwide turf war — USA TODAY

Nobody seems to agree about electric mountain bikes: Are they bikes? Are they damaging? Do they belong on trails? Too late. They're already out there.

apple.news

 

[scott43]

How long before e-bikes are banned from urban and suburban bike trails for the same reason?

You're not allowed to ride them on bike paths here. Now whether that's enforced..

 

[4ster]

You're not allowed to ride them on bike paths here. Now whether that's enforced..

I live right next to the very busy paved FS bike path that leads to popular beaches & other attractions. It is clearly marked.

Ironically this E-scooter was parked right there

& another 50’ down the trail.

I use this trail often in the Spring to access the MTB trails till some of the sensitive wetland meadows dry out, then I avoid it. Lately there are more E-bikes, E-scooters & 1 wheelers on it than anything else, I have even encountered electric motorcycles .

Last summer there was an article about perhaps opening some of the FS single track in the area to E-bikes but they were pretty specific that this trail would NOT be included…

Two new E-bike specific rental shops opened last summer along with the longtime bike rental which also rents E-bikes all a few blocks away along the highway adjacent to the city bike route which turns into the FS path at the end of my street. Do you think these shops are informing the tourists “Sure we will rent you a bike but you need to ride it on the highway”. Why did the city grant them a business license? Two of them went by these signs without even blinking while I was taking these pictures. There is not & never has been any enforcement. The problem is that this is a very busy path with many families weaving all over the place & even 20mph is a treacherous accident waiting to happen!!!

 

[scott43]

I agree. Those scooters are fast. As are some of the e-bikes. I was out yesterday and there were a gaggle of people doing maybe 25kmh on bicycles..then dude comes along at I would guess 40kmh or more, weaving around kids on a multi-use trail. I mean.. it's a problem.

 

[Andy Mink]

I live right next to the very busy paved FS bike path that leads to popular beaches & other attractions. It is clearly marked.
View attachment 170267

Ironically this E-scooter was parked right there
View attachment 170268

& another 50’ down the trail.
View attachment 170269
I use this trail often in the Spring to access the MTB trails till some of the sensitive wetland meadows dry out, then I avoid it. Lately there are more E-bikes, E-scooters & 1 wheelers on it than anything else, I have even encountered electric motorcycles .

Last summer there was an article about perhaps opening some of the FS single track in the area to E-bikes but they were pretty specific that this trail would NOT be included…

View attachment 170266


Two new E-bike specific rental shops opened last summer along with the longtime bike rental which also rents E-bikes all a few blocks away along the highway adjacent to the city bike route which turns into the FS path at the end of my street. Do you think these shops are informing the tourists “Sure we will rent you a bike but you need to ride it on the highway”. Why did the city grant them a business license? Two of them went by these signs without even blinking while I was taking these pictures. There is not & never has been any enforcement. The problem is that this is a very busy path with many families weaving all over the place & even 20mph is a treacherous accident waiting to happen!!!

Is that an official sticker or one someone put on? (The "No ebikes No pedal assist)

 

[Andy Mink]

I thought this was a pretty in depth article with no real consensus & lots of grey area.

An electric bike rode into the backcountry. Now there's a nationwide turf war — USA TODAY

Nobody seems to agree about electric mountain bikes: Are they bikes? Are they damaging? Do they belong on trails? Too late. They're already out there.

apple.news

What's the gist of the article? I'm not a member of USA Today.

 

[Tom K.]

Is that an official sticker or one someone put on? (The "No ebikes No pedal assist)

That is the official USFS sticker.

 

[Philpug]

Two new E-bike specific rental shops opened last summer along with the longtime bike rental which also rents E-bikes all a few blocks away along the highway adjacent to the city bike route which turns into the FS path at the end of my street. Do you think these shops are informing the tourists “Sure we will rent you a bike but you need to ride it on the highway”. Why did the city grant them a business license? Two of them went by these signs without even blinking while I was taking these pictures.

I imagine there is a sign (discreetly) posted somewhere in the shop with will/might get pointed to. Very well there is also a discaimer that needs to be sgned by everyone renting a bike saying that they must obey traffic laws and where bikes are allowed and not allowed. I am sure it gets read as much as the back of a binding work ticket.

There is not & never has been any enforcement. The problem is that this is a very busy path with many families weaving all over the place & even 20mph is a treacherous accident waiting to happen!!!

Weaving in and out at 20 MPH can happen on an eMTB, or even a regular mountain bike, or road bike. I am sorry but comments like this make people think that eMTB's have two speeds, stopped/off and 20MPH.