Vail Resort - a new leaf (part 2.....)

[jack97]

Vail sent snowmakers from there western resort to make snow at Attitash and Wildcat. Their respective FB confirms this as well. To give context, snowmaking has been lacking at these two resorts while other resorts close by and in NE are chugging along.

I heard rumors of why these two resorts did not have enough snowmaking crew at the start of the season. All I will say is the GM of Attitash resigned Jan 17 2022, this postion was back filled by the Northeast regional manager.


https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/01/25/attitash-vail-resorts-help-snowmaking/

 

[Henry]

The question that won't get asked...did the former Attitash GM spend all the budget he was given? Same for the former GM at Stevens Pass. If they spent all they had and still couldn't provide good service, then the problem was higher up the food chain. And--did their managers know how bad things were? If they didn't, they should have, and they should be looking for a new career.

The executives and directors of any public corporation, including Vail Resorts, has the prime responsibility of maximizing shareholder value. How can this be done?

Walmart-ization of the skiing experience. Sell lots of passes cheaply for a crappified experience. Set aside the showcase properties of Vail and Beaver Creek. A top drawer property like Whistler is like a new Supercenter, shiny and almost every shelf stocked/lift running. A blue collar property like Stevens Pass, and maybe Attitash, is like a tired old Walmart in a run down old mill town. Many shelves empty and not enough staff to stock them. Buying an Epic Pass is like buying a membership at Sam's Club.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

FWIW Bobby Murphy is the GM of Stowe and the GMs of Attitash and Wildcat both report(ed) to him. Attitash GM quit this winter, Wildcat GM quit summer of '21.

Attitash and Wildcat are both seriously run down. Attitash has multiple broken lifts. Wildcat's snowmaking was delayed at least in part by a broken mid-mountain pump house. I don't understand putting a 6 pack in at Stowe when Attitash's lifts don't work. Spend some money over there. Also, as far as budget goes, it seems like Stowe's budget has been seriously curtailed this season too. I don't know why, but they are blowing very little snow at Stowe too.

 

[doc]

Front page article in today's Denver Post:
https://enewspaper.denverpost.com/?...284_1292d_0&selDate=20220128&goTo=A01&artid=0

"Vail Resorts faces growing backlash"

 

[fatbob]

NYT on ski industry woes too. Not direct focus on Vail but Stevens and Crested Butte situations are major examples. They've really screwed the pooch on this one if it's getting so much mainstream coverage.

 

[Johnny V.]

Yeah, but they sold a record amount of Epic passes...............................just praying Vail doesn't get their grubby mitts on our little hill in Western NY..........................

 

[doc]

Hopefully, the new look DOJ and FTC block any further acquisitions by Vail.

 

[pete]

eh, can't buy a Bosch Dishwasher either ... it's all going downhill fast

 

[justplanesteve]

NYT on ski industry woes too. Not direct focus on Vail but Stevens and Crested Butte situations are major examples. They've really screwed the pooch on this one if it's getting so much mainstream coverage.

direct link:

For Skiers, a Winter of Discontent

With resorts having trouble hiring and employees calling out sick, visitors have been frustrated by idled lifts, limited services and closed terrain. Some of the biggest complaints have come from Epic Pass holders.

www.nytimes.com

smt

 

[Andy Mink]

Attitash GM quit this winter,

Word is he will be taking over as GM at Mt. Rose. I hope the problems at Attitash were coming from elsewhere.

 

[johnnyvw]

FWIW Bobby Murphy is the GM of Stowe and the GMs of Attitash and Wildcat both report(ed) to him. Attitash GM quit this winter, Wildcat GM quit summer of '21.

Attitash and Wildcat are both seriously run down. Attitash has multiple broken lifts. Wildcat's snowmaking was delayed at least in part by a broken mid-mountain pump house. I don't understand putting a 6 pack in at Stowe when Attitash's lifts don't work. Spend some money over there. Also, as far as budget goes, it seems like Stowe's budget has been seriously curtailed this season too. I don't know why, but they are blowing very little snow at Stowe too.

I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly won't be surprised if a few areas are shut down over the next few years. Consolidation. Look what happened at Toggenburg

 

[ELDoane]

Also, as far as budget goes, it seems like Stowe's budget has been seriously curtailed this season too. I don't know why, but they are blowing very little snow at Stowe too.

It's 100% manpower. There are only three dudes left at the "master groomer" level and able to run the winch cats. Of course, they're also the shift leads and what not. Combined with the incredibly low natural snow total (we're at least 30 inches behind on the Mansfield stake) they're just sucking this year. They made a concerted effort to prioritize intermediate terrain off the Fourrunner first, then the race surfaces and upper Spruce, back to Liftline and Gondola, then the Hayride race course and finally got through to the Standard terrain park.

Sad, because Stowe dropped a lot of dough on permits and expanding the reservoir past couple years. In theory, they have enough pressure and water to run every gun at the same time, but lack the manpower to do it.

 

[Wendy]

Word is he will be taking over as GM at Mt. Rose. I hope the problems at Attitash were coming from elsewhere.

Lack of investment at Attitash resulting in broken lifts, etc, I’m sure was disheartening. I could see why a general manager would quit in that situation and move elsewhere.

 

[Gina D]

I heard Crotched was having problems too.

 

[James]

Sad, because Stowe dropped a lot of dough on permits and expanding the reservoir past couple years. In theory, they have enough pressure and water to run every gun at the same time, but lack the manpower to do it.

I’m wondering if the past two seasons are going to spur the use of “automatic” snow making systems. Don’t know exactly what you call it, but the systems are in place and don’t require someone to go out there and hook up hoses. Lots of parameters can be adjusted from inside.

Really expensive, and so far the NE has been very resistant to the investment, but recent labor issues might swing that.

I know someone who was on a chair lift in VT several years ago with with a guy working for an Italian company who was trying to sell systems to mountains. At that time it was a very hard sell.

 

[newboots]

I heard Crotched was having problems too.

Yes, didn't they curtail night skiing, or cut it back?

 

[raisingarizona]

The question that won't get asked...did the former Attitash GM spend all the budget he was given? Same for the former GM at Stevens Pass. If they spent all they had and still couldn't provide good service, then the problem was higher up the food chain. And--did their managers know how bad things were? If they didn't, they should have, and they should be looking for a new career.

The executives and directors of any public corporation, including Vail Resorts, has the prime responsibility of maximizing shareholder value. How can this be done?

Walmart-ization of the skiing experience. Sell lots of passes cheaply for a crappified experience. Set aside the showcase properties of Vail and Beaver Creek. A top drawer property like Whistler is like a new Supercenter, shiny and almost every shelf stocked/lift running. A blue collar property like Stevens Pass, and maybe Attitash, is like a tired old Walmart in a run down old mill town. Many shelves empty and not enough staff to stock them. Buying an Epic Pass is like buying a membership at Sam's Club.

Yup. When ski areas are independently owned the management is going to do everything they can to be competitive and make customers happy just like a mom and pop general store.

Corporations are a lot like government in that they get so many layers that things become dysfunctional in a lot of ways.

big decision makers for vail base their decisions on numbers they analyze from their office chairs. That’s not going to go very well for properties that they see as less valuable.

 

[Frank Ricard]

I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly won't be surprised if a few areas are shut down over the next few years. Consolidation. Look what happened at Toggenburg

This might be off topic, but is there any inside info here as to what the issues at Toggenburg were?

My family has a farm 5 minutes away. I live across country so I haven't skied there in years, but nobody I asked locally last time I was home had any real info.

From what I read it was profitable, and purely a consolidation technique.

 

[Johnny V.]

his might be off topic, but is there any inside info here as to what the issues at Toggenburg were?

The owners of Greek Peak (who bought it from the original family) sold it to the guy who owns Song Mountain and Labrador. He decided to close it to direct business to Song and Lab-they're all very close. Sad to see, but all three are "mom and pop" operations with older infrastructure in need of updating for today's skiing world.

 

[Average Joe]

FWIW Bobby Murphy is the GM of Stowe and the GMs of Attitash and Wildcat both report(ed) to him. Attitash GM quit this winter, Wildcat GM quit summer of '21.

Attitash and Wildcat are both seriously run down. Attitash has multiple broken lifts. Wildcat's snowmaking was delayed at least in part by a broken mid-mountain pump house. I don't understand putting a 6 pack in at Stowe when Attitash's lifts don't work. Spend some money over there. Also, as far as budget goes, it seems like Stowe's budget has been seriously curtailed this season too. I don't know why, but they are blowing very little snow at Stowe too.

When they start with a Whistler, or a Stowe, and starve the capital and operations of cash and personnel, it takes longer to show than at a place like Attitash or Wildcat.
I am hearing that Hunter has employees with Okemo or maybe Mt Snow parkas, so they must be in crisis mode if they are sending people 2-3 hours each way to work at sister operations (and taking them from resorts already understaffed).