Vail Resorts ends printed trail maps at all its locations

[Unpiste]

this really blurs the line of what you can do and what you should do. Can you eliminate paper maps? Yes. Should you? No. I would be interested in hearing what the actual production of the maps are and what is left at the end of the season which IMHO where the waste probably is and if thats IS the case, they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I’d bet normal procedure is to throw out a bunch of perfectly good maps at the end of the season so that they’re not handing out maps with last year’s messaging and advertisements (for shops on the hill and such).

Aside from terrain updates, the old maps are perfectly good, of course. I usually grab one every year or two for each area I ski, just to keep in a pocket. It always winds up being useful at some point, either for my own group or to help someone else.

 

[Rudi Riet]

My smartphone doesn't have coverage where I ski.

This isn't a hindrance for almost all smartphones. If a map is downloaded to the phone - and with VR's app it is, as is the case with many other activity tracking apps that can download maps locally, and Google Maps can do this as well - then the phone will use its onboard GPS system to do the rest.

Yes, this means making sure you have the maps downloaded to your phone - and you can do this anywhere there is wifi or cell service - but once that's done it'll just work.

BTW: I love the idea of marking the location of an injured skier on a paper trail map to report to ski patrol.

 

[Seldomski]

Not a fan of this move. Does every kid on the mountain really have a smart phone? I also know some older skiers who are hopeless using their smart phone, or don't have a phone capable. If you ski a place all the time, then yeah, a map is redundant. But this does not help the person new to the area.

Really, how much money are they saving doing this? I don't buy the environmental angle. How about moving all the maps to a vending machine. Scan your pass and get 1 free map for that resort for the season. Additional copies are $2.

 

[jt10000]

[/QUOTE]

I'm actually surprised they didn't go this route first. People would still be up in arms about them charging. But if they put a $0.50-1.00 charge for a map, a family would grab one, instead of one for each family member, and an extra "just in case". To me, it would be a similar scenario of charging for a bag at the grocery store. The people that actually use them as maps or as souvenirs would probably still purchase, but it would cut back a lot of waste.

Yup, that price for current "cheap" maps would be fine.

And I would pay $5 with no grumbling for a map at a higher paper quality, and will end up paying even more if that's the price when I feel I need one.

 

[Lauren]

Yup, that price for current "cheap" maps would be fine.



And I would pay $5 with no grumbling for a map at a higher paper quality, and will end up paying even more if that's the price when I feel I need one.

[/QUOTE]
It would be pretty awesome if they sold waterproof, tear-resistant maps (like the maps you can buy for hiking). I have had some vacations where I use the same map for a week of skiing and it ends up looking like it's been through war by the end.

 

[Rudi Riet]

It would be pretty awesome if they sold waterproof, tear-resistant maps (like the maps you can buy for hiking). I have had some vacations where I use the same map for a week of skiing and it ends up looking like it's been through war by the end.

I agree with the premise of using the tear-resistant materials, though these are typically plastics and don't easily biodegrade or recycle. I envision many of these maps being haphazardly dropped by folks with fumble fingers and becoming a litter gathering issue at end-of-season cleanup "parties."

Hikers hang on to these maps like the gold they are. Skiers tend not to be quite as responsible if the litter under most lift lines is any indication.

 

[Lauren]

Hikers hang on to these maps like the gold they are. Skiers tend not to be quite as responsible if the litter under most lift lines is any indication.

I think most people that pay $10+ for a trail map would take better care of it than the free, paper map, that they can replace free-of-charge when they lose it. You bring up a good point about the sustainability/recyclability of those types of maps, I'm not well-versed enough in the material to comment. But I do think most people that purchase them would keep them long term (I don't think the demand for them would be massive).

 

[cantunamunch]

Luckily I don’t ski Vail resorts. Unfortunately, others will follow.

Trail maps are great.

You're not coming over to Roundtop anymore?

 

[Wasatchman]

It's a shame. I still enjoy paper in some things but yet another thing that succumbs to the digital transformation. I hope other ski operators hold out much longer and keep the paper maps.

 

[weatherman]

Really, how much money are they saving doing this?

You are missing the point. They want you to use the app. It's not about savings on printing costs. Think data collection and driving additional revenue.

 

[Dave Marshak]

They want you to use the app. It's not about savings on printing costs. Think data collection and driving additional revenue.

QFT

dm

 

[mikel]

Even with today's maps many end up on the trail or on the ground in the village. I always carry a few maps with me and any time someone asks me for directions and while giving them directions I also offer a map. I would say about 90% of the time guests decline paper for a variety of reasons. The most common being "I don't have my reading glasses with me". Not sure how many would actually pay for a map? Would it cause a discussion with another subset of skiers alleging it's just another way for said resort to nickel and dime skiers?

Not everyone has the same likes. I think there is value in all of them. The App, safety bar trail map, large boards at the base or the top of lifts, and paper. The one thing you won't find on paper is the daily groomers. Need the app or the large boards.

 

[SSSdave]

Not an issue personally since am I familiar with the 3 Tahoe resorts on my pass. If I skied at an unfamiliar resort, would want a pocket map as I never carry my smartphone skiing. Have in the past but even smaller smartphones like I have are too bulky. My pockets already have too much stuff that is worst on foul weather days.

Anyone that want to will still be able to use a paper pocket map. They will just need to bother printing it out. If someone is interested, start a new thread and I'll explain in some detail how to do so using FedEx Office printers. Also expect ski shops in resorts towns will soon be stocking inexpensive commercially made pocket maps. As a map and advanced Photoshop person, have created my own maps of each local resort that are more detailed and useful though do not carry them in my pocket haha. I could easily make a commercial product with them but such would be chump change and soon current technology cartographers familiar with latest commercial applications will no doubt do so.

The below is a crop from my Kirkwood map that mainly used a few caltopo layers as a source. Added half of the text annotation and includes tables of lift stats like elevations and rise. The tricky part was adding a vegetation tree layer that is all the gray areas that is accurate enough to show single conifers. Particularly has value on understanding where one might find untracked powder on fresh snow days about obscure areas.

 

[Seldomski]

You are missing the point. They want you to use the app. It's not about savings on printing costs. Think data collection and driving additional revenue.

Well I can google for a trail map which leads me to a downloadable PDF. If I plan ahead, I can print a paper copy that way. You don't need the app to get a map on your phone. I guess staff will probably be trained to tell guests to get the app to ski the resort. But google search doesn't lead you to that solution.

How does using the map in their app help them generate revenue? I mean other than not paying for printed maps and litter collection?

 

[cantunamunch]

How does using the map in their app help them generate revenue? I mean other than not paying for printed maps and litter collection?

How does using FB or Instagram help facebook generate revenue? There's even an EpicMix - FB tie-in.

Vail Resorts engages skiers via multichannel mobile strategy | Marketing Dive

Marketing news, voices and jobs for industry professionals. Optimized for your mobile phone.

www.marketingdive.com

And, of course, as pointed out above, the completely banal way is to simply charge for a printed map.

 

[raytseng]

this really blurs the line of what you can do and what you should do. Can you eliminate paper maps? Yes. Should you? No. I would be interested in hearing what the actual production of the maps are and what is left at the end of the season which IMHO where the waste probably is and if thats IS the case, they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I think the cost is more than that, because the paper maps are a big source of litter because people cant even be bothered to properly dispose of their babies or bathwater.

Every park or trail that offers free maps at the gate, you will see at least 5 dropped maps somewhere on your visit.

Just like the supermarket plastic bag thing was more about reducing the litter and bags ending up in the trees and gutters rather than making a dent in petrochemicals consumed.

 

[SSSdave]

Given the pig behavior attitudes of the usual inconsiderate 10% in this era, any litter people can see on slopes just encourages others to do likewise.

 

[cantunamunch]

I don't buy the environmental angle at all.

I point to face masks - still mostly not free - and the insane level of face mask litter.

This is a financial decision and everything else is greenwashed window dressing.

 

[raytseng]

I don't buy the environmental angle at all. I point to face masks - still mostly not free - and the insane level of face mask litter.

ha, but if face masks were free, don't you think it would be even worse....I can still imagine many levels up and beyond the current "insane" level.
If you travel from an area that has banned/priced single use shopping bags to a similar area that doesn't, it makes a difference

 

[Tricia]

I'm not sure this is the best demographic for an objective review. IMV trail maps are absolutely critical for orientating oneself on a first visit to a resort and for those who say want to stick to easy blues they need to plot their way around the mountain.

I mean its not as if Vail has really simple geography to navigate ( looks at Breck peaks 6,7,8, WB, Vail back bowls etc).

For the naysayers - imagine going to an interconnected resort in Europe and just depending on the big boards in cable car and gondi stations to get yourself around. Perfectly possible to find yourself in the wrong village or even valley if you don't have a reference at critical junctions. And no, smartphones are not a substitute the APIs on most resort apps are slow.

I was thinking about this from my perspective in my earlier posts, and then I thought of the time I worked at Northstar.
We had a stack of trailmaps for free at the cash wrap.
We couldn't keep trail maps in stock at the front counter. I imagine that this is because there were many new-comers to the mountain who really wanted/needed to acclimate.

So, to your point...we're not the average skier.
If I show up to ski at a new place, there is a really good chance that someone who knows the mountain is meeting up with me/us to show us around.
Not everyone has that advantage.