Vintage Road Conversion

[Yo Momma]

Just a couple of notes and good links for anyone converting a vintage steel bike into a more modern ride + minor gravel abilities. Here is one of the best online conversion resources I've found:

http://www.vintage-trek.com/refurbish.htm

Hardest part was front derailleur problems. I'm 215 lbs and blow through "cheap" gear, but that's the gear my LBS said was compatible w/ my bike. They were correct.... kinda.... When I upgraded the cranks/chainring from 3x crap to "less 3x crap (Sora)" (Vermont LOTS of hills), while testing the setup I blew out my 3x Microshift Brifter (more crap). The reason for so much "Crap" is due to the limit of using max 7 speed rear cog w/ the given frame width rear dropouts @ 126mm. If I wanted to bend the frame I could go higher but not interested. Anyway, I didn't realize the MS fromt Brifter was TOAST so I spent hours and hours frustrated trying to figure out why my setup was skipping the middle crank on the downshift. Bought and installed the L 3x Shim Tourney Brifter (ST-A070) , shifted nicely but afterwards modernized the front derailleur to a Sora Triple and BAM shifting beautifully now and smooth. We'll see after 50 or so miles!

Shimano 7-Speed Brifter Options

A comprehensive review of drop bar shifter / brifter options for your 7 speed vintage road bike.

thebicyclerebuilder.wordpress.com

Looks like I'm stuck w/ Shimano Tourney's Crap... At least they are cheap to replace. Now pimpin' a Shimano Tourney 3x on the L side and a Microshift 7 on the R..... Ugg! Oh well. At least it's all working now!

Next is the upgrade from the Acera 7x rear derailleur to Deore 9x (RD-M592). All sources thus far say a 9x rear derail is compatible w/ 7 spd rear cassette and brifter combo. We'll see! Acera to Deore.

Don't forget your Panaracer GravelKings! I found them in a 28..... wanted 30 or 32s but that was a no go w/ this frame.

Wildcats always photobombing the scene!!!! I they're feeling lonely given how little snow we got this year...

 

[jmeb]

126 spacing on vintage treks is more of an "idea". I own/have owned a dozen pre 1990 treks. Every one of them could easily be hand flexed to take a 130mm cog and some already measured 128-129. If you don't like pulling your fame apart everytime you pull the rear wheel, a reasonably competent shop can cold set your frame to the new space. Your dropout hanger may need a slight correctoin.

Upgrade the wheelset and the world is your oyster. Currently, I've got a 1985 720 built with this 1x11 group for the wife, a 1983 620 with 3x9 and barends, and a 1984 420 built 2x10spd ultegra brifters. All running Panaracer Paselas either in 32 or 35.

 

[Yo Momma]

126 spacing on vintage treks is more of an "idea". I own/have owned a dozen pre 1990 treks. Every one of them could easily be hand flexed to take a 130mm cog and some already measured 128-129. If you don't like pulling your fame apart everytime you pull the rear wheel, a reasonably competent shop can cold set your frame to the new space. Your dropout hanger may need a slight correctoin.

Upgrade the wheelset and the world is your oyster. Currently, I've got a 1985 720 built with this 1x11 group for the wife, a 1983 620 with 3x9 and barends, and a 1984 420 built 2x10spd ultegra brifters. All running Panaracer Paselas either in 32 or 35.

How did you fit 32's in there? Did they fit after you had the setup flexed? NICE Compo group! I like it! I upgraded the wheelset but plan to go further w/ that once I get the gearing all sorted. What wheelset are you runnin'?

 

[scott43]

Just a note some older frames may have issues with the seatstay and chain clearance with a higher cassette count. So while you can bend to 130 you may still get chain rub on the stay.

 

[jmeb]

How did you fit 32's in there? Did they fit after you had the setup flexed? NICE Compo group! I like it! I upgraded the wheelset but plan to go further w/ that once I get the gearing all sorted. What wheelset are you runnin'?

Not all old treks are the same -- some were full-on race bikes, some built with slacker angles, longer chainstays, and more clearance. I gravitate towards the X20 series which are their touring bikes. All of mine are non-canti brake versions because I find them easier to work with when converting to modern wheelsets. I've ran 37s on the 620 for a long time.

Wheels vary between bikes. All are 700c which gives extra clearance. One i built (velocity dyads to 105 hubs), one is late 90s (mavic something to ultegra), and then the last is a take off from some CX bike (11spd).

Just a note some older frames may have issues with the seatstay and chain clearance with a higher cassette count. So while you can bend to 130 you may still get chain rub on the stay.

Good point. It'll vary between bikes depending on their rear-end geometry. A Trek race bike with a 50t cassette probably ain't gonna work.

 

[cantunamunch]

So none of you are dimpling your stays?

 

[wooglin]

Agree on the cramming 9sp in there. Easy peasy. Also, nice to see my old bike is still in the vintage Trek gallery. Miss that frame.

 

[Dave Marshak]

You can cram as many gears as like on an old frame but it will never be a competitive race bike. The best upgrade is a fixed gear wheel.

dm

 

[wooglin]

You can cram as many gears as like on an old frame but it will never be a competitive race bike. The best upgrade is a fixed gear wheel.

dm

I don’t think he’s talking about a race bike. And agree that fixed is a good option. That was the last iteration of the Trek I referenced above.

 

[Dave Marshak]

I don’t think he’s talking about a race bike.

Unless you are riding in a competitive group, you don’t need a lot of gears. Nine speed is the worst. You can’t be competitive but it’s still almost as fussy as 10s. Seven with friction shifters is more than enough for solo riding and single speed is better. YMMV

dm

 

[jt10000]

Adding that so much "fussiness" with higher numbers of gears in old frames is at least partially a reflection on bad alignment - bad derailleur hanger alignment and even the wheel not being straight in the frame due to the dropouts not really being parallel.

When that stuff is right, and you use modern cable housings, shifting can be a lot better.

If you ride old steel, a derailleur hanger testing/adjustment tool is a great thing to have.

 

[Yo Momma]

For now the plan is to stick w/ the current 7 speed setup. Upgrading to the the Deore rear derailleur tomorrow.

 

[jmeb]

I've put over 25k miles on 9spd groups on vintage bikes as daily commuters, weekend riders, and long-distance tours over the past decade. For me, it's the sweet spot where good quality parts are inexpensive, indexing is easy to set up and not fussed about a tiny misalignment, and I can still easily shift in friction if need be (for the couple setup with 9spd dura-ace bar ends). So I would say--in fact--my mileage has varied.

FWIW, I have a fixed gear (and a 3spd fixed gear) in the stable. They get ridden when I'm looking for something particularly engaging or a change of pace. But they don't have near the utility of widely geared bikes if you ever ride with a load or live in a hilly environment.

 

[Yo Momma]

I've put over 25k miles on 9spd groups on vintage bikes as daily commuters, weekend riders, and long-distance tours over the past decade. For me, it's the sweet spot where good quality parts are inexpensive, indexing is easy to set up and not fussed about a tiny misalignment, and I can still easily shift in friction if need be (for the couple setup with 9spd dura-ace bar ends). So I would say--in fact--my mileage has varied.

FWIW, I have a fixed gear (and a 3spd fixed gear) in the stable. They get ridden when I'm looking for something particularly engaging or a change of pace. But they don't have near the utility of widely geared bikes if you ever ride with a load or live in a hilly environment.

LOTS of hills here. I need mucho gearing for my sorry azz.....I'm engaged to "Granny" ...Gear that is!! We have a "...thing going on! " I don't know how anybody even considers a fixedG in Vermont. My knees are screaming at just the thought. I've seen them though... That's a whole nuther level!

When you hear Mrs. Jones just sub in "Granny Gear"

 

[Dave Marshak]

I've put over 25k miles on 9spd groups on vintage bikes as daily commuters, weekend riders, and long-distance tours over the past decade. For me, it's the sweet spot ,,,

Nine speed gets you into narrow chains and indexed shifting. Seven speed lets you use standard chains that join with simple pin vise and never break, friction shifters and stronger more symetrical wheels. You don't need the 53X12 and your only need one low gear. Nine minus two makes seven the sweet spot.
FWIW I commuted 15 miles for several years on a 6s friction shifter. I needed a stopwatch to tell the difference between that and my 10s race bike or even my single speed. The fixed gear was uncomfortable on the downhills and a little slower, but for all the other bikes it was more about the level of effort I wanted to do.

dm

 

[BLiP]

My single speed (prefer over fixed) Lemond is perfect for riding in NYC. Low maintenance, never distracted by shifting, etc. Outside of an urban environment though, I don’t know if it would be my first choice.

 

[Yo Momma]

My single speed (prefer over fixed) Lemond is perfect for riding in NYC. Low maintenance, never distracted by shifting, etc. Outside of an urban environment though, I don’t know if it would be my first choice.

Back in the day I used to do the NYC Five Borough Bike Tour. That was crazy and fun. Started out in the canyons near Wall St. ending w/ a brutal jaunt up the Verazzano bridge. Afterwards our crew would always head down to Hop Kee's down on Mott St and pig out bigtime! Good Times

My bike commute was from Little Falls, NJ to Irvington, even in winter but not in snow. Most exciting was blasting around a corner on a sketchy block in East Orange w/ my commuter bud (Yes you pick up speed and dress like you're homeless for that commute esp for going through that particular block) and full speed into a group of cops and cars w/ their guns out!!! YIKES! I don't know who was more surprised. Them or us!!!!!!!! Talk about slamming on your brakes!!!!!! Almost got taken out on the bike in a hail of bullets!

I can only imagine some of the NYC stories, but I never commuted there because my hospital residency was in the South Bronx. Too risky, sometimes even in a car when on call down in the Fulton area back in the day.

 

[jmeb]

Nine speed gets you into narrow chains and indexed shifting. Seven speed lets you use standard chains that join with simple pin vise and never break, friction shifters and stronger more symetrical wheels. You don't need the 53X12 and your only need one low gear.

Different strokes, different folks.

I'd rather have a chain with a master link, which is hard to find in 7spd. I've never broken a 9spd chain with reasonable maintenance, but then I'm not pushing 400+ watts all that often. I have shifted 9spd in friction without issue for weeks on end on a tour when I broke the indexing in a shifter. I don't want to deal with freewheels when freehubs are more reliable over longer distances. And cassettes give more options for gearing choices.

As for "you only need one low gear". Well, I simply disagree based on my tens of thousands of miles commuting and touring. I want the right gear for the grade when I'm long mtn climbs. It isn't a matter of "fast" its a matter of being in my comfortable cadence for me.

As for symmetrical wheels. We're talking about a couple mms. It *may* matter for a clydsedale who like to hop curbs with a fully loaded touring rig. But a reasonably built, 32/36 spoke wheel will serve 99% of people fine with a standard freehub. So yeah, theoretically stronger. Doesn't matter in practice where the vast majority of wheel issues are due to poor tensioning in the first place.

IME, which is now daily commuting on a bike for 15 years between 2 and 10 miles each way, cross country tours, wrenching in a retail environment for 3 years and a local coop for another 8 -- I think the idea that 9spd is unreliable, too much maintanence and doesn't have benefits vs a 7spd freehub is just not my experience. 9 spd parts are inexpensive, quality, and can be found in far more bike shops than 7spd these days.

Anywho -- g'luck @Yo Momma . Vintage treks are just sweet bikes that deserve lots of riding.

 

[scott43]

As someone who has built a few wheels (read that as "hundreds").. Asymmetric rims are a good idea. Wheel dish is not a feature..it's a design flaw. Asymmetric helps that. I don't know why all rims aren't asymmetric frankly. But yes, I wouldn't go rebuilding JUST for that reason...

 

[Yo Momma]

Different strokes, different folks.

I'd rather have a chain with a master link, which is hard to find in 7spd. I've never broken a 9spd chain with reasonable maintenance, but then I'm not pushing 400+ watts all that often. I have shifted 9spd in friction without issue for weeks on end on a tour when I broke the indexing in a shifter. I don't want to deal with freewheels when freehubs are more reliable over longer distances. And cassettes give more options for gearing choices.

As for "you only need one low gear". Well, I simply disagree based on my tens of thousands of miles commuting and touring. I want the right gear for the grade when I'm long mtn climbs. It isn't a matter of "fast" its a matter of being in my comfortable cadence for me.

As for symmetrical wheels. We're talking about a couple mms. It *may* matter for a clydsedale who like to hop curbs with a fully loaded touring rig. But a reasonably built, 32/36 spoke wheel will serve 99% of people fine with a standard freehub. So yeah, theoretically stronger. Doesn't matter in practice where the vast majority of wheel issues are due to poor tensioning in the first place.

IME, which is now daily commuting on a bike for 15 years between 2 and 10 miles each way, cross country tours, wrenching in a retail environment for 3 years and a local coop for another 8 -- I think the idea that 9spd is unreliable, too much maintanence and doesn't have benefits vs a 7spd freehub is just not my experience. 9 spd parts are inexpensive, quality, and can be found in far more bike shops than 7spd these days.

Anywho -- g'luck @Yo Momma . Vintage treks are just sweet bikes that deserve lots of riding.

I will use it on the RR beds here in VT. I don't road ride anymore as it's just too crazy w/ pple on their phones. Thanks for all the excellent info and your assessment is consistent w/ the info I rec'd from an old pro at Earls Bikes in Burlington which gets top billing here in VT. His rec was to either leave it at 7spd and go w/ the Tourney brifters ( like I did) or what he did to his own vintage Trek, cold weld the dropouts to around 130 or so using a threaded rod and then put in 9 spd Tiagra compo group.