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Volkl Piston Race Plate Question

cruxkill0

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Hello. I have a question regarding the binding mounting location on Volkl piston control race plate.

I purchased a pair of skis from a shop in Killington, VT. I noticed that the Marker XComp12 bindings were
mounted differently from the 2020-2021 tech manual.

The skis/bindings are brand new. They're 2021 Racetiger GS with X-Comp-12 bindings. These are for my teenage
daughter. I also have 2022 Racetiger SL WC 155 skis with the same binding/plates.

The tech manual I found on the web;

I contacted the ski shop and they said it's correct and they have a different diagram. How is this possible?
Are they saying the tech manual is incorrect? How can they have a different diagram?

Looking at the tech manual....

The toe piece was mounted at the incorrect location, but the heel piece was mounted at the right location
per the manual. They didn't have the actual boot. Binding mounting was just an option to purchase when
the order was submitted. They just require the boot sole length which I provided.

This shop used to be really awesome, but the owner's changed in the summer and the skis were shipped to me
in pretty bad condition by the previous owner. Supposedly, this was the last pair of skis the previous owner sold
according to the new owner.

All I want to know is make sure the bindings are at the right location so that the skis can operate as designed
by Volkl. Not trying to blame anyone. I can't really trust what the shop tells me at this point.

I tried to contact Marker Volkl USA, but I have not been able to get an answer from them. The customer support
gave me the product manager's contact info, but he has not responded. Perhaps, he doesn't know either.

I hope someone in this forum knows about these race plates well and give me the correct answer. I was hoping
to get a response from Marker Volkl USA with an answer like this.... "the manual is correct or the manual in the
above link had a revision. here's the new diagram." I am pretty confident that the shop made a mistake on this.

Some pictures so you know what I am talking about exactly... There is no boot center mark on these skis, so
I really can't tell.

[Manual figures]
For a boot with the boot sole length of 285mm, the manual says the toe piece should go to #1 and heel piece
should go to #5. The toe piece was mounted at #2 and the heel piece was mounted at #5.
manualImage.JPG

[As Shop Mounted]
asShopMounted.JPG

[When mounted per the tech manual]
mountedPerManual.JPG


One question I have is... Are there two different types of piston control plates? The picture
in the manual is slightly different from what I have. I am just assuming the manual figure is not
updated. I noticed a slight difference near the toe piece between the figure and the hardware.

raceplate difference.JPG


I mounted everything per the manual and it seems to be fine as far as the fit. The boot can go in/out
fine. The forward pressure is adjusted fine. I am just not sure if they're mounted at the right location or not.
When I tried to adjust the forward pressure when the toe piece was mounted at the shop mounted position, the
boot would go in barely. But, it just didn't feel right. It felt like the boot was going to get damaged. It was way
too difficult to clip the boot in. The binding actually pushed small bit of plastic in at the rear clipping point.
I guess you could still mount the heel piece at the wrong location (one number forward), still make it fit, and
the forward pressure adjusted.

Anyway, for you all techs out there, I would appreciate your help in advance. I could go to another shop and
get a second opinion, but I thought I should try here first.
 

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Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
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Given that these are for your daughter and you're concerned about her safety, find a shop you trust and bring the skis and her boots to the shop and let them get the setup correct.

Now, if you really want to venture into this, the goal of a binding mount is for it to be positioned on the ski fore/aft correctly (usually the midsole mark on the boot is aligned over the factory mounting mark on the ski) and the binding must be adjusted properly for the Boot Sole Length (BSL) so that there is sufficient forward pressure for the binding operation.

I pretty much ignore all the numbers printed on plates because they don't always achieve the goals as stated above. As long as you get the boot on the ski where you want it and the boot fits the binding, the numbers on the plate aren't a concern.
 
Thread Starter
TS
C

cruxkill0

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Lake Oswego, OR
Thank you all. I did get a response back from Marker Volkl's product manager. He confirmed that the manual is correct and 2021/22 manual is also the same. The product manager said some people will mount it forward due to personal preference, but the manual's stated position is strongly recommended as @ScotsSkier mentioned.

@Noodler says place the boot where the midsole mark on the boot is aligned over the factory mounting mark on the ski, but these skis don't come with the factory mounting mark. That's why I was seeking this information.

The shop where I ordered these skis used to be a top notch shop. It used to be better than any shop in Oregon. They used to race tune the skis so well. This is one shop I would trust for sure. Of course, binding mounting was not a problem at all in the past. It just all went downhill when the owner changed hands. Hey, things happen, it's not a big deal. I am just glad I found the manual on line and was able to correct before the season began.
 

Swede

Making fresh tracks
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@Noodler says place the boot where the midsole mark on the boot is aligned over the factory mounting mark on the ski, but these skis don't come with the factory mounting mark. That's why I was seeking this information.

Haven't had any Völkl race skis, only other Völkls, but aren't there a printed mark on the sidewall? Like an "I"?
 

S.H.

USSA Coach
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New England --> CO
Haven't had any Völkl race skis, only other Völkls, but aren't there a printed mark on the sidewall? Like an "I"?
There's been a mark on all Volkl race skis I've had (except for those years they had PTEX on the sidewall) ... more pairs than I can count.

But no matter, I'd just pick a mount point (default to the manual if you want), ski it, and then move it if you don't like it. The joys of plates.
 

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
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Given that these are for your daughter and you're concerned about her safety, find a shop you trust and bring the skis and her boots to the shop and let them get the setup correct.
The shop that is being discussed is Peak Performance the #1 race ski shop in the Killington area hands down. Longtime owner passed and the shop changed ownership over the summer. This is the first that I have heard of any issues with the change. Most of the longtime employees stayed
 

Nobody

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Some time ago I "tested" a pair of Blizzard GS (at the time the new and upcoming for the following season GS Firebird FIS specs) whose owner ,a race coach, had mounted the binding in the foremost possible position to "improve" in maneuverability. As it turned out, even a dork as me could feel it. In order to do that, though, he had to mount a small (about 2,5 mm) spacer between the piston plate and the toe-piece, I do not remember the exact reason but it had to do with the fact that otherwise, the toe-piece couldn't be placed all that forward.
This to say, anything goes, as long as one knows what is the intended goal and accepts the benefits (supposed benefits) and the risks.
In your case, being your daughter, you are 100% right in wanting to understand and wanting to set the bindings as per the manual (as long as the manual is right).
 

James

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The shop that is being discussed is Peak Performance the #1 race ski shop in the Killington area hands down. Longtime owner passed and the shop changed ownership over the summer. This is the first that I have heard of any issues with the change. Most of the longtime employees stayed
Hmmm, sorry to hear this. Fred was a great guy. He was always interested in what kids were doing years later.
 

johnb

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I just got a pair of volki deacon masters with the piston plate and marker xcomp 12 bindings. The are at the shop now to be mounted.

I am concerned they might get mounted in the wrong position. My sole length is 296mm, that should put the toe in position 1 and the heel in position 6.

How can I check or see what position they are mounted in, since after mounting, the plate is covered by the bindings?

The shop has a good reputation, and they assured me they have techs familiar with this type of binding mount. But I am a trust but verify person. Thanks in advance.
 

Philpug

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How can I check or see what position they are mounted in, since after mounting, the plate is covered by the bindings?
There should be a "center" mark on the side of the ski, that should line up (w/in a mm or three) with the center mark of your boot when your boot is in the binding.
 

ScotsSkier

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If your concern is whether they have mounted the binding in the correct holes in the plate (as opposed to mounting the piston plate in the correct position) there is a simple visual check you can do. You have asked for the toe piece to be in position 1. If it is mounted there you will not see any of the holes for the center screw (1,2,3) on the toe piece showing. If it is mounted in position 2 you will see part of hole 1 showing behind the toe piece. if you look at the picture in Post 1 of this thread you will see that. If the toe is mounted correctly then the heel will also be in hole 6 to get the correct forward pressure
 

johnb

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Thanks for the fast replies! So as long as the toe is mounted in position 1, then I am good. Having the toe in the correct position automatically means the heel is in the correct position? The piston plate was already factory installed on the ski.
The shop is The Loft in Tannersville PA. Has a good reputation and they did great on my last pair of skis 10 years ago.

What made me wonder was when I brought the skis in to be mounted this weekend, they asked if I wanted to wait and have them done now? They looked at the skis and said, "We only know how to mount system track bindings. " I asked do you have people that are familiar with this type of bindings? They confidently said yes, and mentioned 2 peoples names. They should be done in 2 or 3 weeks.

The manual makes it so clear. Glad.i know what to check for. Thanks again.
 

Philpug

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Thanks for the fast replies! So as long as the toe is mounted in position 1, then I am good. Having the toe in the correct position automatically means the heel is in the correct position? The piston plate was already factory installed on the ski.
The shop is The Loft in Tannersville PA. Has a good reputation and they did great on my last pair of skis 10 years ago.

What made me wonder was when I brought the skis in to be mounted this weekend, they asked if I wanted to wait and have them done now? They looked at the skis and said, "We only know how to mount system track bindings. " I asked do you have people that are familiar with this type of bindings? They confidently said yes, and mentioned 2 peoples names. They should be done in 2 or 3 weeks.

The manual makes it so clear. Glad.i know what to check for. Thanks again.
My old stomping grounds. The Loft is good. Tell Joe Messina I say Hey.
 

ScotsSkier

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Yes. You should be good. You could have waited. Takes 10 minutes tops to mount them on the plate if they have not done it before. When you are have done it a lot it’s 3-5 minutes…..
 
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johnb

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Thanks, I feel confident about it now. Looking forward to trying them out at Big Snow.

I am really impressed by the helpful replies. First day on this site. Been on another ski site, I no longer post there, nothing good came from it.
 

nnowak

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Volkl race skis used to have an "I" printed on the sidewall to mark the boot center, but stopped this practice a few years ago. Now, the number "1" in the ski length printed in the sidewall corresponds to the boot center (not sure what is used on 200 + skis).

You can also look at the piston plate for a center mark. The arrow on the attached photo points to an edge that corresponds with the boot center point.
mountedPerManual~4.JPG


As for the mounting position of the bindings, Marker has maintained the same recommendations since the launch of the piston plate.
 

ScotsSkier

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Volkl race skis used to have an "I" printed on the sidewall to mark the boot center, but stopped this practice a few years ago. Now, the number "
.......

As for the mounting position of the bindings, Marker has maintained the same recommendations since the launch of the piston plate.
That is what i thought as well but actually it has changed with regard to the holes to use for the heel piece so it is VERY important to ensure you are using the latest recs. If you look at the recs in Post 1 here for the heel and compare it to a previous manual (i think it is13-14 I had ) The previous manual showed heel positions as follows :

Screenshot 2023-06-25 at 9.29.05 PM.png


but the current version shows


Screenshot 2023-06-25 at 9.08.52 PM.png



e.g. previous rec for position 5 270-279 BSL
and current rec for position 5 is 279-288 BSL

It is important to use the current version as with the older rec if you were below the xx5 BSL you ended up with the heel being cranked all the way forward to get the correct forward pressure and you could run out of heel travel when racing and throwing a shoe. I discovered this when one of my top athletes kept getting unexplained releases and even replaced the bindings which didnt help. We moved the heel one hole forward from the (old) recs and issue was solved. And - I am ashamed to admit - I fell victim to the same issue in the Masters nationals GS last year:doh:....so since then i have updated to the new recs on all my mounts .

I suspect this may also be one of the reasons for so many complaints of Marker prereleases on race skis!!!
 
Last edited:

nnowak

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That is what i thought as well but actually it has changed with regard to the holes to use for the heel piece so it is VERY important to ensure you are using the latest recs. If you look at the recs in Post 1 here for the heel and compare it to a previous manual (i think it is13-14 I had ) The previous manual showed heel positions as follows :

View attachment 206375

but the current version shows


View attachment 206373
I have a pretty old photocopy from the days of the red piston plates and EPS bindings, and the recommendations exactly match those in the current tech manual.
Marker Piston Plate Binding Mounting crop.jpeg


It is important to use the current version as with the older rec if you were below the xx5 BSL you ended up with the heel being cranked all the way forward to get the correct forward pressure and you could run out of heel travel when racing and throwing a shoe. I discovered this when one of my top athletes kept getting unexplained releases and even replaced the bindings which didnt help. We moved the heel one hole forward from the (old) recs and issue was solved. And - I am ashamed to admit - I fell victim to the same issue in the Masters nationals GS last year:doh:....so since then i have updated to the new recs on all my mounts .

I suspect this may also be one of the reasons for so many complaints of Marker prereleases on race skis!!!
Getting the forward pressure right helps a lot too. I always go 2 clicks in from flush on Marker race bindings and it makes a big improvement. Once I started doing this, I did not need to run as high a DIN setting to prevent pre releasing.
 

johnb

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I have learned so much. I never had skis with a plate before. If I knew how easy this was, I would have been tempted to do it myself.

Bindings to correct holes, 1 and 6 for me. Set forward tension to flush with housing, my DIN is 8. Check anti friction plate for clearance to boot with a piece of paper or business card. Click boot out a few times to make sure settings hold. Am I missing anything?
 

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