VR Winter Operating Plan

[raytseng]

I think I found an inconsistency in VR recently announced policy. Here are two paragraphs in the FAQ section of the VR link to the policy.

VR Policy


Are you requiring your staff to be vaccinated?
Yes. We believe the COVID-19 vaccine is the way to end this pandemic, and the best way to keep our employees and guests safe. In compliance with the recent rules announced under the U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration, Vail Resorts will be requiring all employees to be vaccinated for COVID-19, effective Nov. 15, 2021.

What if an employee tests positive for COVID-19?
Any employee who tests positive for COVID-19, along with any unvaccinated employee who is exposed to COVID-19 through close contact, will not be permitted to work, will follow applicable quarantine/isolation protocols, and will be eligible for Emergency Sick Leave as applicable.

How can there be an unvaccinated employee?????

And if I read between the lines: A vaccinated employee who is exposed to COVID-19 through close contact: A) Will still be allowed to work. B) Will not have to quarantine/isolate C) Will not be eligible for Emergency Sick Leave ?????

A lot of the unknown is due to the actual OSHA order isn't finalized or released. I think a lot of this will clear up when that goes out and will just align to that policy.

For discrepency A) I read this to cover the dates up to and through Nov15 effective date. Although the conspiracy theorists can look that this implies some loophole.

For discrepency B) I read your interpretation as materially right idea for the scenario of (a vaccinated employee being exposed through close contact);
However, to exactly match the boolean logic of this rule, your reading also need to include : A Vaccinated employee (who is exposed to covid-19-through close contact) AND (does not have a Positive Test Result) won't hit this rule.

This means your potential inconsistency gap can easily be closed by a requirements of covid test upon knowledge of Exposure(s).

For the strict logicians though. A rule not hitting doesn't mean the counterfactual is true. Just because this 1 event doesn't hit, doesn't mean the opposite is true nor that other rules can't also be simultaneously active; it is just that only that one rule didn't hit.

 

[Jwrags]

I see no discrepancies. There are valid reasons why an employee may have an exception for getting the vaccine (“I don’t want one”probably doesn’t count). So there may be unvaccinated employees.
CDC guidance, right now, is that vaccinated individuals who have a known exposure do not have to isolate unless they have symptoms but they should be tested in 3-5 days. Exposed, unvaccinated need to quarantine.

 

[Dakine]

I'm willing to bet Vail's insurance carriers required them to develop a Covid policy in accordance with OSHA rules.
Most folks don't appreciate how the problems with liability insurance drive a lot of policy decisions by corporate entities.

 

[DanoT]

In B.C. they have issued a vaccine card that you download to your phone or print a copy with QR code on a piece of paper. When you enter a restaurant or bar they scan the QR code, then if there is a Covid outbreak centred at that location, they have the info as to who was in attendance and possibly exposed and how to contact them.

 

[geepers]

In B.C. they have issued a vaccine card that you download to your phone or print a copy with QR code on a piece of paper. When you enter a restaurant or bar they scan the QR code, then if there is a Covid outbreak centred at that location, they have the info as to who was in attendance and possibly exposed and how to contact them.

How's this play out for international visitors? Can we get this by showing home country proof of vax?

 

[cantunamunch]

How's this play out for international visitors? Can we get this by showing home country proof of vax?

Good question - still trying to figure out the Quebec variant.

 

[DanoT]

How's this play out for international visitors? Can we get this by showing home country proof of vax?

My guess is no, because AFAIK B.C.'s vaccine card is just available to B.C. residents who are registered with the Province as having received the vaccine.

Pior to making any non refundable commitments I would suggest checking with the Canadian Consulate in Sydney or whatever big city you are near to. Also see what guest services at the B.C. resorts that you plan to visit have to say, although it is a little early for some policies to be finalized for the ski season.

 

[pchewn]

In B.C. they have issued a vaccine card that you download to your phone or print a copy with QR code on a piece of paper. When you enter a restaurant or bar they scan the QR code, then if there is a Covid outbreak centred at that location, they have the info as to who was in attendance and possibly exposed and how to contact them.

Well, that's what they tell you the info will be used for. What prevents them from using this tracking information for other purposes? (Serving warrants, tracking for lawsuits, tracking for criminal evidence, seeking back alimony or child support, finding parole violators, selling to marketers, etc. etc. etc.)

 

[DanoT]

Well, that's what they tell you the info will be used for. What prevents them from using this tracking information for other purposes? (Serving warrants, tracking for lawsuits, tracking for criminal evidence, seeking back alimony or child support, finding parole violators, selling to marketers, etc. etc. etc.)

Last ski season (pre vaccine) restaurants and bars manually recorded your name and address upon entering so they could contact you if there was a Covid outbreak. Now with the B.C. Vaccine Passport Card the info recording/tracking is more automated and you can't enter without one.

My driver's license also has my B.C. Health Card Number that I have to give out every time I see a doctor or go to the hospital or get medication. It also has my address, so "they" know where I live. Credit card companies can track me based on purchases and "they" have access to that info if they want. Banks also have to report large cash deposits to government.

The government knows how much money I earn thru my taxes and knows how many assets I own thru property taxes and car insurance. They even know my bank account # so they can deposit income tax or other refunds or pension cheques.

The government already knows a lot more about me and my whereabouts than any vaccine passport card is going to reveal.

Have a smart phone (I don't)? "They" can track you thru that as well.

 

[cantunamunch]

Have a smart phone? "They" can track you thru that as well.

I was going to say "TV"

 

[dbostedo]

Let's please stay on track with regard to ski resort policies/impacts. Thank you.

 

[Eric@ict]

I guess you haven't flown since 9/11 ...

Working on platinum pro. I fly 2-3 times a month.

 

[Eric@ict]

I suspect pass holders will be able to upload scans of their CDC cards and then the “papers please check” will be a pass scan similar to what happens when you are in the lift line. Day pass skiers might need to show the CDC card at the ticket window or upload a scan if they purchase a pass online.

I suspect there will be a way to tie it to your pass. No reservation system this year, so it would almost have to be a software solution so you up load and get cleared to use your pass.

 

[RobSN]

Working on platinum pro. I fly 2-3 times a month.

Permanent platinum, 5+ million miles, 13 years continuous Exec Platinum ... but more to the point, we have to show our papers to fly, so what's the difference for you?

 

[James]

How's this play out for international visitors? Can we get this by showing home country proof of vax?

Not sure why you’re getting such poor answers.

-You have to enter your proof of vaccination into ArriveCan.
-You’ll need a test.
-You have to submit a plan for quarantining for 14 days in case something goes awry. Like someone on the plane has covid.
And then of course the Border agent can reject you.
———————————-

Uploading proof of your vaccination in ArriveCAN​

In ArriveCAN, within 72 hours before your travel, you must provide:

• the details of your first dose (date, country and vaccine you received)
• the details of your second dose if one was required (i.e., for Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty, Moderna Spikevax, and AstraZeneca Vaxzevria/COVISHIELD COVID-19 vaccines)
• upload a photo or PDF file of the record of each doseof your vaccination, such as receipts, cards, or confirmations:
  • if you received two doses and they are both recorded on a single card or PDF, upload that same image or file for dose 1 and again for dose 2
  • file formats accepted: PDF, PNG, JPEG or JPG
  • maximum file size for upload: each image upload has a 2 MB size limit
• preferred file format: if you received a PDF file of your vaccination record, upload the PDF rather than an image, since the PDF is clearer and easier to read
• these must be in English, French, or a certified translation into English or French

Bring your original proof of vaccination with you while you travel and for 14 days after entry.

Final determination of your vaccination status will be made at the border. You must bring a digital or paper copy of your proof(s) of vaccination with you.
—————————

COVID-19: Travel, testing and borders - Travel.gc.ca

COVID-19 border measures have ended as of October 1, 2022 for all travellers entering or returning to Canada by air, land or sea.

travel.gc.ca

 

[geepers]

Not sure why you’re getting such poor answers.

-You have to enter your proof of vaccination into ArriveCan.
-You’ll need a test.
-You have to submit a plan for quarantining for 14 days in case something goes awry. Like someone on the plane has covid.
And then of course the Border agent can reject you.
———————————-

Uploading proof of your vaccination in ArriveCAN​

In ArriveCAN, within 72 hours before your travel, you must provide:

• the details of your first dose (date, country and vaccine you received)
• the details of your second dose if one was required (i.e., for Pfizer-BioNTech Comirnaty, Moderna Spikevax, and AstraZeneca Vaxzevria/COVISHIELD COVID-19 vaccines)
• upload a photo or PDF file of the record of each doseof your vaccination, such as receipts, cards, or confirmations:
  • if you received two doses and they are both recorded on a single card or PDF, upload that same image or file for dose 1 and again for dose 2
  • file formats accepted: PDF, PNG, JPEG or JPG
  • maximum file size for upload: each image upload has a 2 MB size limit
• preferred file format: if you received a PDF file of your vaccination record, upload the PDF rather than an image, since the PDF is clearer and easier to read
• these must be in English, French, or a certified translation into English or French

Bring your original proof of vaccination with you while you travel and for 14 days after entry.

Final determination of your vaccination status will be made at the border. You must bring a digital or paper copy of your proof(s) of vaccination with you.
—————————

COVID-19: Travel, testing and borders - Travel.gc.ca

COVID-19 border measures have ended as of October 1, 2022 for all travellers entering or returning to Canada by air, land or sea.

travel.gc.ca

Thanks for that - good effort. However I was after different info re @DanoT post re BC vaccine card - what happens to visitors once in country and wanting to eat out and needing proof of vax.

So much simpler with smallpox vax. That mark on the arm.

 

[Saintsman]

Thanks for that - good effort. However I was after different info re @DanoT post re BC vaccine card - what happens to visitors once in country and wanting to eat out and needing proof of vax.

So much simpler with smallpox vax. That mark on the arm.

International visitors to BC are supposed to present their vax doc used to enter Canada and their passport as proof of identity. I saw a reference somewhere that your Arrivecan receipt will be considered an acceptable alternative but can't find confirmation

Specific rules for BC for restuarant entry etc:

People who don't have B.C. ID​

People who don't have a B.C. ID are also required to show proof of vaccination. You might not have B.C. identification if:

• You're visiting from another place
• You just moved here

People from other provinces or territories​

People from other Canadian provinces or territories must show:

• Provincially/territorially officially recognized vaccine record
• Valid government photo ID

International visitors​

International visitors must show:

• Proof of vaccination they used to enter Canada
• Passport

 

[Nathanvg]

Epic fail. Vail is requiring its employees to be vaxed, as well as all patrons at indoor resturants and such. If the vaccine is suppose to protect people, then why require masks indoors? Plus, they acknowledge people won't be wearing masks while eating so why bother with masks at all at resturants?

Better yet, it appears they are going to allow unvaccinated people to ride in gondolas under normal loading, which means mixed groups and singles. I can't think of a smaller and more enclosed space with no real air circulation than gondolas. The last thing I want is my under 12 year old unvaccinated child riding in a gondola with an unvaccinated adult.

This isn't a science-based policy, it's arbitrary.

My understanding is federal law currently requires masks on public transportation such as buses. Surely a gondola would be required by that mandate too, right? The policy might be changed and/or the mandate could change.

 

[raytseng]

My understanding is federal law currently requires masks on public transportation such as buses. Surely a gondola would be required by that mandate too, right? The policy might be changed and/or the mandate could change.

I think they could claim a gondola is an outdoor/open-air conveyance. Currently, the top open decks of a bus or a ferry is explictily cited as examples of open-air so they will slot into that category.
The other category is as a "private" conveyance; of course this depends on gondola size and what they say vs what they actually do.
Nothing is perfectly logical; this is just reality. Until they get a formal judgement, the operator probably will make their own determination with a lot of wiggle room.

 

[DanoT]

I think they could claim a gondola is an outdoor/open-air conveyance.

It shouldn't be too difficult to permanently open or remove gondola windows as a way to underscore the open air conveyance claim.