What a properly fit ski boot feels like on day one

[cem]

Good one!

"Oh yes, you did. They were just different problems."

So so true, that line gets me every time. I have to bite my tongue and just nod my head, sometimes though I do roll my eyes out loud

 

[Tony S]

Then you have those extremely well-adjusted "Type B" personalities who just don't care. I have a friend who can be seen pulling on that second pair of thick wool socks before donning his boots on race night. He then often enough proceeds to edge me out on time based on sheer athleticism, recklessness, and native instinct. I have asked him whether he might enjoy zooming up the leaderboard with a little attention to gear and technique. The short version of his answer is, "No. Waste of money and effort. I am having plenty of fun."

 

[nemesis256]

For the most part, shells and liners can be made bigger but making them smaller is more difficult.

While this is true, the cork material in Zipfit liners is magic to me. I've put so much in for my left foot, which is inexplicably smaller than my right foot.

 

[Tree Stashes]

Reminds me of a great story I heard from a Masterfit instructor. She had a young Aussie guy who worked in her shop who had a stereotypically crude Aussie sense of humor. In walks a rather fancy older lady, coiffed hair, pearl earrings, etc. He's trying to express to hear how her boot should feel: "Like a firm handshake." "Snug all over but not tight." She's not getting it, and the Aussie is getting increasingly exasperated.

Finally, he blurts out: "It should feel like you've got your finger up somebody's bum!" Instantly, she grasped the concept.

 

[Seldomski]

The immediate reaction as the foot slides in should be: "no way, these are way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot. There is no way I can wear these." the person trying the boot on should want it OFF their foot before it is even buckled. After about 5 minutes with the boot buckled and being actively flexed the fit should be "maybe? They still feel a little too tight but my toes are now still touching but not crushed.... can I try the next size up?" That's the right size.

Great description. While sitting, your toes should feel crushed against the front. When you stand and lean forward, one foot the toes should feel "OK," but still tight, and the other foot still slightly crushed, but better. Most people have different sized feet and the boots should be a close enough fit that you notice a difference between the two.

 

[AmyPJ]

I disagree about no hot spots, at least to a degree. That's what heat molding and punching/grinding in those hot spots is for. If a boot overall feels super snug, almost to the point of "wow, that's tight!" but is tolerable, and has a few hot spots, then work on those hot spots. Current boots are crafted to be manipulated in those hot spots so as to mold as close to the feet as possible while allowing for the creation of a bit of extra space where it's needed. Now, if you have two boots that are comparable but one has several hot spots and the other doesn't, then yes, I'd probably go with the one that will require less work. I suppose an exception would be if the hot spot is over the instep or another place that's more difficult to create room.

My personal experience with my stupid low-volume feet is that I can't ever find a boot that's tight enough. My husband, on the other hand, has fairly meaty feet that he stuffs into a 98mm last and molds, punches, and grinds around the various abnormalities his feet have from years of being crammed into plug race boots that didn't have as much capability for creating space where it's needed. (Or, he didn't bother to create the space.) He ends up with a superb fitting boot that he's really molded around his foot. If I could be so lucky!

 

[snoroqc]

First day with a new pair of boot this week. In the am, I was fast to unbuckle the boot in the chairlift. During the pm, I 'forgot' sometimes to unbucle the boot. Tried to crank up the third buckle during the afternoon. Oups way too tight..

 

[ScottB]

The immediate reaction as the foot slides in should be: "no way, these are way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot. There is no way I can wear these." the person trying the boot on should want it OFF their foot before it is even buckled. After about 5 minutes with the boot buckled and being actively flexed the fit should be "maybe? They still feel a little too tight but my toes are now still touching but not crushed.... can I try the next size up?" That's the right size.

I just experienced this exact thing (at least the initial way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot) and I am very glad I went to the next size up. I don't agree that this is what it has to feel like. My point of disagreement is when you buckle the boot up and flex for a minute or two, if your toes don't feel a lot better and are just lightly touching the front of the boot, you are in for a lot of boot work and toenail losses. If your OK with that, then I do agree with the description. My other point is a lot of boots come in different widths now a days. In the old days you had to go small to get the snug fit on width and Mike's description was spot on. (boots get narrower as they go down in size). Now a days you don't have to live with crushed toes, you can go to the next size up and a narrower width and heat mold and get boot work done to shape the boot to fit your foot. I only learned recently that boots are designed to allow modifications to be shaped to your foot. You have to start with a tight fit (Mike describes that well), but not too short a fit, and then add room as needed. How short is too short, for me, when I put my foot in the boot I thought "no way, these are way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot. There is no way I can wear these." and 15 minutes later and a lot of flexing, I though the exact same thing. NO relief what so ever. The next size up was plenty snug and my toes were just off the end of the boot when I slipped them on.
Now hot spots from bony protrusions are a completely different thing (and a lot more painful) but those you solve with punches and boot work, not with changing boot size. I think these days you have to go into finding a new boot thinking "what width and what length do I need to make it ski well." You can mix and match as you want to get a good fitting boot. If it feels too snug (but not painful, as in hot spots or too short) in the store, it will probably be just right after a few days of break in due to skiing.

For context, I have a long narrow foot, have trouble getting boots snug enough. I buckle my boots in the morning very snug and never touch them again until I take them off. My feet are perfectly comfortable all day long, and usually warm unless my boots start to leak, which is when its time to look for a new pair. It took about 8 years for my current boots to start leaking.

 

[jo3st3]

Buy a boot with an instep height that closely matches your foot, a length that requires a flex forward to not be jammed onto the front of the boot, a width that matches your weighted foot spread with insoles (wiggling toes up and down, good... side to side, bad), and a solid heel pocket that keeps you locked into place.

Perhaps I'm use to boots, but it never feels like a firm handshake, pair of socks, leg cast, or feeling like there is no way it's the right size boot when first put on, etc. I guess perception is reality and it's whatever you are use to. I find there is always plenty of room by my definition.

In general, measure the foot unweighted, and that's probably the right boot size with an insole for better skiers. If you go with the size when weighted, it will be a very generous fit and will get sloppy once it's broken in. More experienced skiers would prefer a size less than their weighted measurement.

Unless you have an obviously incorrectly sized boot, or a boot that doesn't match your foot shape, it shouldn't be painful. Some people have funky feet... and for those people you need to punch out those spots to make room for the humps and bumps (navicular, ankles, bunions, etc). For most people, it should feel pretty great right out of the box, and boots these days are pre punched in those areas to really accommodate a large number of people without any work to the liner or shell.

Once you've found the right boot, ski in the boots a few days before doing any shell work (if needed). In a lot of cases people just need to break in the liner and get use to the new feel. If you have some obvious zingers, then it can be fixed by the boot fitter. Heat molding the liner can speed the break-in process but bone on plastic will never be confused with liner work.

Last, but not least, never buy boots online unless you don't live on the same planet as a shop with boot fitting. I still don't know why retailers even offer the option because they know it's going to be a series of returns. Unless you've tried them on in person, and already know you need NO boot work, it's a horrible idea.

 

[Bad Bob]

On the 1st day it probably feels like it needs some work.

 

[Tony S]

It took about 8 years for my current boots to start leaking.

The whole topic of leaking boots would be a good thread.

 

[crgildart]

I would say of the feel OK while skiing in them but have some pressure points you notice standing around in the lift line and/or riding the lift.. Work with the buckles on/off the lift and they usually pack out a little bit and get better in that regard after a week or so of ski days. IF skiing in them is no fun at all, definitely take them back for more work.

 

[LiquidFeet]

The whole topic of leaking boots would be a good thread.

Start it.

 

[Uncle-A]

The fit should be like your foot and the boot is like one brick with your toes still being able to wiggle a little bit.

 

[Marker]

I just experienced this exact thing (at least the initial way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot) and I am very glad I went to the next size up. I don't agree that this is what it has to feel like. My point of disagreement is when you buckle the boot up and flex for a minute or two, if your toes don't feel a lot better and are just lightly touching the front of the boot, you are in for a lot of boot work and toenail losses. If your OK with that, then I do agree with the description. My other point is a lot of boots come in different widths now a days. In the old days you had to go small to get the snug fit on width and Mike's description was spot on. (boots get narrower as they go down in size). Now a days you don't have to live with crushed toes, you can go to the next size up and a narrower width and heat mold and get boot work done to shape the boot to fit your foot. I only learned recently that boots are designed to allow modifications to be shaped to your foot. You have to start with a tight fit (Mike describes that well), but not too short a fit, and then add room as needed. How short is too short, for me, when I put my foot in the boot I thought "no way, these are way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot. There is no way I can wear these." and 15 minutes later and a lot of flexing, I though the exact same thing. NO relief what so ever. The next size up was plenty snug and my toes were just off the end of the boot when I slipped them on.
Now hot spots from bony protrusions are a completely different thing (and a lot more painful) but those you solve with punches and boot work, not with changing boot size. I think these days you have to go into finding a new boot thinking "what width and what length do I need to make it ski well." You can mix and match as you want to get a good fitting boot. If it feels too snug (but not painful, as in hot spots or too short) in the store, it will probably be just right after a few days of break in due to skiing.

For context, I have a long narrow foot, have trouble getting boots snug enough. I buckle my boots in the morning very snug and never touch them again until I take them off. My feet are perfectly comfortable all day long, and usually warm unless my boots start to leak, which is when its time to look for a new pair. It took about 8 years for my current boots to start leaking.

This sounded all too familiar to me for when my boots were new. I skied my first day yesterday down in PA, and I suspect my liners are packed out.

 

[JHust]

I have a general fit question in which I will use my situation as an example. I currently just got a pair of Lange lx boots in 26.5 which are 102 mm wide. The more that I ski them the more I feel that they maybe to big. I have since tried on the rx in 26.5 which are 100 mm and can keep them on for 20 minutes with only a little pain on 1 foot. I also tried on the lx in a 25.5 which if I'm not mistaken should now also be 100 mm wide in 1 size smaller. I can also wear these for about the same time with some pain in the other foot. Ironically my larger foot gets the pain in the larger boot and the smaller foot gets the pain in the smaller boot.

My question is how does a bootfitter decide which boot is better? This question mainly comes from statements about your toes touching the front of the shell, then pulling away when flexed. If this is the case why is this type of fit better than being in a larger size, smaller volume boot where your toes don't touch the front on the shell? Especially with the situation this year with booting up in our cars and walking a lot more in ski boots.

If both shells over the proper heel hold and instep clearance is 1 fit better than the other? Is there a need to have the toes that tight to the front of the shell?

 

[LiquidFeet]

A good bootfitter will choose boots for your smallest foot and punch/grind out bulges in the other to make room for the larger foot. A good bootfitter will choose a boot for you that is not too wide nor too big around the lower leg for your smallest foot, not too tall over the instep, and not too short for that foot. The custom work done on the tighter boot to relieve the "hot spots" where your foot rubs uncomfortably against the shell will be free. Well, actually, you just paid for it in the cost of the boot.

Boot shells are made to be punched and ground to make room for foot bulges. Making these adjustments is common practice if you buy from a brick and mortar shop with a real bootfitter who knows what's up, but with most real bootfitters you do need to ask for it.

If you were served by a salesman who has no real training in bootfitting, that person is not capable of doing this kind of adjustment. This happens too frequently.

 

[Uncle-A]

A good bootfitter will choose boots for your smallest foot and punch/grind out bulges in the other to make room for the larger foot. A good bootfitter will choose a boot for you that is not too wide nor too big around the lower leg for your smallest foot, not too tall over the instep, and not too short for that foot. The custom work done on the tighter boot to relieve the "hot spots" where your foot rubs uncomfortably against the shell will be free. Well, actually, you just paid for it in the cost of the boot.

Boot shells are made to be punched and ground to make room for foot bulges. Making these adjustments is common practice if you buy from a brick and mortar shop with a real bootfitter who knows what's up, but with most real bootfitters you do need to ask for it.

If you were served by a salesman who has no real training in bootfitting, that person is not capable of doing this kind of adjustment. This happens too frequently.

I know that it is the current wisdom to fit the smaller foot and punch/grind for the larger foot. For some reason this statement always seems to rub me the wrong way. Making a boot tighter to fit the smaller foot just seem easier to do and it can be increased as padding packs out. My left foot is longer than my right foot but my right foot is wider and a slightly higher instep than the left. I use a size 10 - 4E New Balance running shoe but my ski boot is a 26.5 with a 102 last. When flexing forward the toes on the left foot know the end of the boot is there but not the right foot. I don't get any movement in the right boot so I cant imagine being in a 25.5 boot that has been punched/grinded out.

 

[Philpug]

I have a general fit question in which I will use my situation as an example. I currently just got a pair of Lange lx boots in 26.5 which are 102 mm wide. The more that I ski them the more I feel that they maybe to big. I have since tried on the rx in 26.5 which are 100 mm and can keep them on for 20 minutes with only a little pain on 1 foot. I also tried on the lx in a 25.5 which if I'm not mistaken should now also be 100 mm wide in 1 size smaller. I can also wear these for about the same time with some pain in the other foot. Ironically my larger foot gets the pain in the larger boot and the smaller foot gets the pain in the smaller boot.

My question is how does a bootfitter decide which boot is better? This question mainly comes from statements about your toes touching the front of the shell, then pulling away when flexed. If this is the case why is this type of fit better than being in a larger size, smaller volume boot where your toes don't touch the front on the shell? Especially with the situation this year with booting up in our cars and walking a lot more in ski boots.

If both shells over the proper heel hold and instep clearance is 1 fit better than the other? Is there a need to have the toes that tight to the front of the shell?

There are a lot of things here but I would be back and look at exchanging for another option of a boot.

A good bootfitter will choose boots for your smallest foot and punch/grind out bulges in the other to make room for the larger foot. A good bootfitter will choose a boot for you that is not too wide nor too big around the lower leg for your smallest foot, not too tall over the instep, and not too short for that foot. The custom work done on the tighter boot to relieve the "hot spots" where your foot rubs uncomfortably against the shell will be free. Well, actually, you just paid for it in the cost of the boot.

Boot shells are made to be punched and ground to make room for foot bulges. Making these adjustments is common practice if you buy from a brick and mortar shop with a real bootfitter who knows what's up, but with most real bootfitters you do need to ask for it.

If you were served by a salesman who has no real training in bootfitting, that person is not capable of doing this kind of adjustment. This happens too frequently.

LF hits on a lot of the points here why. I will add some fitters are either too proud or scared to say "I don't have the right boot for you" and know when to walk away.

 

[Go West Skier]

"The immediate reaction as the foot slides in should be: "no way, these are way too small my toes are crushed against the front of the boot. There is no way I can wear these." the person trying the boot on should want it OFF their foot before it is even buckled. After about 5 minutes with the boot buckled and being actively flexed the fit should be "maybe? They still feel a little too tight but my toes are now still touching but not crushed.... can I try the next size up?" That's the right size."

IMO, Mike Thomas' description is right on for someone looking for a solid performance fit. It many cases it takes several days on hill plus shop visits to dial in the fit. You have to ski in the boot to really know.

Most definitely, if it feels very comfortable in shop....too BIG.

Mike