What does "releasing the tail" mean?

[cantunamunch]

The person you really want to consult on this is @onenerdykid

 

[Wilhelmson]

I think it comes down to your style and skill of pressure control.

Its great to demo different skis of different lenghts.

Older bonafides 187 seemed stubborn but just needed a quicker transfer for this lighter skier. Not for me in the woods at 187.

Fischer promtn a little washy but i was on a shorter set.

Kastle mx was right on. I noticed the responsiveness but was not familiar with the need to finesse the tail out of the turn.

 

[Yo Momma]

Older bonafides 187 seemed stubborn but just needed a quicker transfer for this lighter skier. Not for me in the woods at 187.

+1 Ditto on the Bones at that length. Super heavy ski so I dropped down a size and they release w/ ease. It almost seems as though the 180 version of the early Bones was an entirely different ski than the 187. Weird. Maybe something to do w/ the FlipCore design??

 

[LiquidFeet]

What does it feel like to have the tail refuse to release? Or to feel it resisting releasing?

 

[Yo Momma]

What does it feel like to have the tail refuse to release?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Faceplant?
I've never perceived a tail refusing to release, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened without me recognizing what it was.

 

[mdf]

Faceplant?
I've never perceived a tail refusing to release, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened without me recognizing what it was.

As @Ken_R pointed out, it happened more in the old days. I remember getting caught on my tails, unintentionally locked into going straight, on K2 712 skis. It happened when you finished a bit back. It was scary.

Now I like a ski with a real tail that will hold on at the end of the turn when I ask it to.

 

[LiquidFeet]

So it happens when skiers are aft and don't realize they are?

 

[cantunamunch]

So it happens when skiers are aft and don't realize they are?

No, it's when the amount of pressure they're putting on the tail doesn't play well with untipping / flattening that ski.

Phrase it my way and you will see that, with sufficient conventional camber, a person could be not back at all and still locked into the turn.

Phrase it my way and you will see that, in the same case of huge conventional camber, the person might actually throw their weight into the back seat intentionally in order to decamber the tail and thereby make it easier to flatten.

Someone above mentioned the K2 712. The 712 was *easy* compared to the 710 and later the VO slalom - pretty much everyone was throwing their weight backwards to get those things to release because they had bought them in 'racer' sizes.

 

[François Pugh]

What does it feel like to have the tail refuse to release? Or to feel it resisting releasing?

It feels like you're riding a bicycle and get your tire trapped in the groove beside the rail for the streetcar or beside a railroad track.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I guess then that I haven't experienced it in recent enough times to remember, not on groomers and not in chopped up powder.

Well, I may have experienced it on two runs that I remember, when I was on very hard icy bumps where I found my skis taking me a bit to the right where I didn't intend to go. I was on stiff slalom skis with a flat straight cut tail.

When I skied bumps poorly back in the past, gaining speed with every run, and experienced a runaway traverse on occasion, I'm now thinking that may have been from tail issues. I know I was aft back then.

This is interesting. I've noticed ski manufacturers market some skis as "easy to release the tail." I've always wondered what the appeal of such marketing is. The skier it targets would need to know that their ski tails were sticking in order for that phrasing in the ads to appeal to them. Do these people know they are experiencing tails that don't release, given how they are skiing?

 

[Crank]

I like to not think of it as releasing the tail. If you have to release you are already late.

 

[Bad Bob]

Like most things while sliding , isn't it pretty much all about intent? Slarve to a carve, carve to a slarve, or skid the whole thing? What is over the top of this rollover? It's clear lets go. In for a lazy stop (or I'm going spray your a&&). 3 intents and 3 ways to do it. Can do them by playing with tip to tail pressure edge pressure or blending them; all by intent. There are so many ways to do so many things on skis.

 

[James]

I’ve talked to someone who tested the first Elan shaped ski SCX prototypes at Okemo in 1992. The 200cm one he said was terrifying in getting it to release at all.
Of course no one had ever seen or skied a shape ski at that point. The Elan’s weren’t a subtle shape either.

 

[oldschoolskier]

When I switched to modern shaped skis, release of the tail became very noticeable. Primarily I was used to being able to sit back on old straight skis and get away with it. Not so on shaped, too far back they don’t release at worse they hook up and catch resulting in phantom foot and a torn ACL.

Proper body position, balance and technique negates this issue.

So IMHO easy releasing the tail means the ski is designed to allow for skier error (ie forgiveness). Remember everything is a compromise, so what do sacrifice with this in ski performance.

 

[Tony S]

When I switched to modern shaped skis, release of the tail became very noticeable. Primarily I was used to being able to sit back on old straight skis and get away with it. Not so on shaped, too far back they don’t release at worse they hook up and catch resulting in phantom foot and a torn ACL.

Proper body position, balance and technique negates this issue.

So IMHO easy releasing the tail means the ski is designed to allow for skier error (ie forgiveness). Remember everything is a compromise, so what do sacrifice with this in ski performance.

This is by far my favorite of the explanations, in terms of connecting with experience. Thanks.

 

[Tony S]

I think there is a tuning element here as well.

Totally. Dull tail edges release great.

On the other hand, though, they release great.

 

[Yo Momma]

I’ve talked to someone who tested the first Elan shaped ski SCX prototypes at Okemo in 1992. The 200cm one he said was terrifying in getting it to release at all.
Of course no one had ever seen or skied a shape ski at that point. The Elan’s weren’t a subtle shape either.

Ditto! I got to test those (SCX's) out before they were offered to the genl public and it was scary at first! Fortunately, my bud was a high level instructor and spent days teaching me how to ski them. I was so lost on those things and talk about the tail not releasing? OMG they were right.... I was terrified the first few runs on them.... I felt like I was locked into rails at the end of every turn. Interesting ski back in "the day", amazing to crank G's at such low speeds.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

I’m definitely not attuned enough to know/feel the difference between releasing tails vs releasing skis from the turn. Wouldn’t tip release as well? Or will the ski deform torsionally with tip engaged and tail released? I’ll try to pay attention next time I’m on the snow (whenever that may happen). Any tip on what to look for or drills to practice tail release?...

 

[Philpug]

Ditto! I got to test those (SCX's) out before they were offered to the genl public and it was scary at first! Fortunately, my bud was a high level instructor and spent days teaching me how to ski them. I was so lost on those things and talk about the tail not releasing? OMG they were right.... I was terrified the first few runs on them.... I felt like I was locked into rails at the end of every turn. Interesting ski back in "the day", amazing to crank G's at such low speeds.

I remember when they came out. I took my demo pair right to Hunter and on my first run if I could have taken them off and taking the ft down I would have. We then went to Sugarbush with Elan and were shown how to ski them by Bill Irwin and Geoff Bruce. When that light bulb went off...skiing changed forever.