The Never-Ending Zipfit Discussion

[sullywhacker]

I believe that it is absolutely true that the stock liners have improved significantly over the years. However, you cannot escape the fact that almost every stock liner on the planet packs out. Stock liners have a fitting "cycle" they all go through, where you spend the early portion of ownership getting them to the point where they are fitting well and providing good performance and then from that point they only get worse. Eventually they're packed out and most skiers end up looking for new boots. ZipFit liners basically get better with age. They break-in, they don't break down.

Now there are a few race-level stock liners that do use cork instead of foam, but their implementation of the cork isn't quite the same as the OMfit material that Sven invented. A huge advantage of the ZipFit is that the liner is dynamic; the OMfit adapts to your feet/legs every time you wear it. Due to my injuries, this is a critical feature that actually allowed me to get back in ski boots and be able to ski. Head now has a LiquidFit feature, but I'm not sure how adaptable it is day-to-day and whether it provides the same level of performance that you get from OMfit. Once your ski boots are chilled on the mountain, the ZipFit locks down your foot like no other. If you get the version that has the interior leather lining, you get the added benefit of increased friction to hold your feet in place.

So I have a nice collection of stock liners sitting in my garage. Every time I buy a new pair of boots I check out the stock liners, but I always end up back in ZipFits.

Thanks. So now all that's left is taking the leap for do-it-myself at home with the kitchen oven - butchered some Intuition wraps a few years back so a little gun shy

 

[Jay S]

Looking on the zipfit website they don’t have the freeride neoprene listed. I don’t want the leather version as I want to put my ski boots on without having to take the liners out and some have said that’s impossible with the leather option. Are they just not making the free ride without the leather or are they out of stock?

 

[Noodler]

Looking on the zipfit website they don’t have the freeride neoprene listed. I don’t want the leather version as I want to put my ski boots on without having to take the liners out and some have said that’s impossible with the leather option. Are they just not making the free ride without the leather or are they out of stock?

I believe it's actually an error on their new web site. They have the Freeride with leather lining listed twice. You should alert them to their error if you're interested in the neoprene version of the Freeride.

 

[Noodler]

Thanks. So now all that's left is taking the leap for do-it-myself at home with the kitchen oven - butchered some Intuition wraps a few years back so a little gun shy

It's not entirely necessary to go near an oven with a ZipFit liner. It will certainly speed up the fitting process using an oven (I have posted my method elsewhere), but it is not mandatory. The OMfit compound is easily manipulated/moldable at room temp. However...

If you have a really tight shell fit, fitting with the oven will probably be necessary to introduce the liner to the shell. I recommend heating the liner for the first couple cycles, not the shell, so that the liner breaks-in to the shape of the shell, rather than the shell adapting to the liner.

 

[locknload]

The Grand Prix is the same design as the Gara and World Cup, but with more OMfit material and higher volume overall. The Freeride has the "softened" rear cuff where the rear plastic support is split in multiple spots (like the Tour model). There may be other differences, but these are the obvious ones. I have only ever owned the Gara and World Cup from the current models (and lots of the older, now irrelevant models)

I was wondering the same thing...here's what Chris from ZipFit said:

The "SideWinder" refers to the black plastic piece that wraps around the calf area and comes down interior side of the foot/boot. This piece adds lateral rigidity and stability and gives you more leverage over your inside edge. Generally speaking the SideWinder is a more performance based model, whereas the non-sidewinder version of our FreeRide is a bit more comfortable. We often see folks who spend 100+ days a year in their boots (like ski patrolers or ski school pros) lean towards the non-sidewinder.

 

[Noodler]

I was wondering the same thing...here's what Chris from ZipFit said:

The "SideWinder" refers to the black plastic piece that wraps around the calf area and comes down interior side of the foot/boot. This piece adds lateral rigidity and stability and gives you more leverage over your inside edge. Generally speaking the SideWinder is a more performance based model, whereas the non-sidewinder version of our FreeRide is a bit more comfortable. We often see folks who spend 100+ days a year in their boots (like ski patrolers or ski school pros) lean towards the non-sidewinder.

I didn't mention the Sidewinder option at all. I was referring only to the leather lining. Not sure what you're trying to point out. Did they acknowledge that they're not showing the non-leather version of the Freeride? There's no way that they wouldn't sell the neoprene version which is the more popular model.

 

[Jay S]

I didn't mention the Sidewinder option at all. I was referring only to the leather lining. Not sure what you're trying to point out. Did they acknowledge that they're not showing the non-leather version of the Freeride? There's no way that they wouldn't sell the neoprene version which is the more popular model.

I sent them an email regarding the website and they told me they don’t have any neoprene freerides in the US. That’s why it doesn’t appear on their website. Not sure if it’s a back order issue, they didn’t elaborate

 

[Noodler]

I sent them an email regarding the website and they told me they don’t have any neoprene freerides in the US. That’s why it doesn’t appear on their website. Not sure if it’s a back order issue, they didn’t elaborate

OK, what we're most likely dealing with then is the CV-19 impact on the Italian production of ZipFit liners. That would not surprise me at all. It might just be that they had to make some hard decisions about what they would produce under the circumstances. They may have also been impacted by the availability of the materials they use to build the liners. I'm sure Sven would be fairly transparent about what they have done to keep the production operating.

 

[locknload]

Sorry for the confusion my input created...as I also initially trying to understand what the "sidewinder" model was...separate from the other designations.

Following this entire thread very carefully as I prepare to pull the trigger. Went back and forth with Chris (Sven's grandson) at ZipFit discussing options. He told me there are production delays on a few of the models..hence the limited inventory on the site currently. That is supposed to change and be updated shortly.

Asking one more time for perfect clarity in my brain....the difference between the World Cup and the Freeride is??? Was there agreement that it was simply the amount of OM material in the liner? Is that it? Secondly, what are the biggest tradeoffs between neoprene and leather models of the same liner? What considerations are in play in deciding between either?

Thanks. I'll admit...this has taken me some time to wrap my head around and I'm nervous about trying to get mine set up at home...but it seems like many others have done so with success to I'm going to give it shot. I need a permanent solution for my liners.

 

[Noodler]

Sorry for the confusion my input created...as I also initially trying to understand what the "sidewinder" model was...separate from the other designations.

Following this entire thread very carefully as I prepare to pull the trigger. Went back and forth with Chris (Sven's grandson) at ZipFit discussing options. He told me there are production delays on a few of the models..hence the limited inventory on the site currently. That is supposed to change and be updated shortly.

Asking one more time for perfect clarity in my brain....the difference between the World Cup and the Freeride is??? Was there agreement that it was simply the amount of OM material in the liner? Is that it? Secondly, what are the biggest tradeoffs between neoprene and leather models of the same liner? What considerations are in play in deciding between either?

Thanks. I'll admit...this has taken me some time to wrap my head around and I'm nervous about trying to get mine set up at home...but it seems like many others have done so with success to I'm going to give it shot. I need a permanent solution for my liners.

WC and Freeride are slightly different designs, it's not just the amount of OMfit. The back cuff of the Freeride is softened via notches placed in the rear support plastic cuff. There may be other differences. Best to ask ZipFit directly.

Leather lining has significantly more grip on your foot. It's hydrophobic leather that, once exposed to some perspiration from your feet, becomes incredibly tacky, thus grabbing onto every part of your foot and leg. There is no getting in or out of a leather lined ZipFit without going racer style. If you want to be able to shove your foot into your boot without removing the liner then you'll need the neoprene lined version. However, I would strongly recommend that you do not try to use a ZipFit liner in this manner. You're bound to screw up the placement of the OMfit by shoving your foot in and out while the liner is in the shell.

 

[locknload]

WC and Freeride are slightly different designs, it's not just the amount of OMfit. The back cuff of the Freeride is softened via notches placed in the rear support plastic cuff. There may be other differences. Best to ask ZipFit directly.

Leather lining has significantly more grip on your foot. It's hydrophobic leather that, once exposed to some perspiration from your feet, becomes incredibly tacky, thus grabbing onto every part of your foot and leg. There is no getting in or out of a leather lined ZipFit without going racer style. If you want to be able to shove your foot into your boot without removing the liner then you'll need the neoprene lined version. However, I would strongly recommend that you do not try to use a ZipFit liner in this manner. You're bound to screw up the placement of the OMfit by shoving your foot in and out while the liner is in the shell.

Thanks..very helpful. You read my mind on thinking about getting in and out of the boot...hence the reason I was leaning toward a neoprene version..but if you think that's just going to move around the OM material..then I probably wouldn't take them on and off that way anyway....maybe that pushes me back toward a leather version. You seem to like that a lot.

 

[Noodler]

Thanks..very helpful. You read my mind on thinking about getting in and out of the boot...hence the reason I was leaning toward a neoprene version..but if you think that's just going to move around the OM material..then I probably wouldn't take them on and off that way anyway....maybe that pushes me back toward a leather version. You seem to like that a lot.

None of my currently skied Zips are the leather lined version. Only my very first pair had the leather. I really liked the leather, but normally you paid a significant premium for the leather lined versions ($100 more or so). I have no idea why they're now showing all the liners at the same price ($450) no matter which version. It doesn't make much sense to me. They used to sell the neoprene versions for $350.

 

[Aquila]

I have the regular non leather zipfits and spent a few days getting in and out of them without taking them out of my boots first. Can confirm it did move the material around and deteriorated the fit. It also pushed the tongue OMfit down to painfully crush my instep :/

It was quickly fixed by a trip to the fitter who just heated the material and manipulated it away from the instep, and warned me about jamming my feet into them like that. I've put them on liner-first ever since and they've been great. You get used to it pretty quickly.

 

[Brad J]

I have the leather Gran Prix version and agree with @Noodler about the grip of the leather liner, The one thing I cannot understand is the reluctance of people that don't want to put the liner on first then liner in shell , I have done it for 10 years and the comfort and performance out ways any inconveniences that you may experience

 

[Joby Graham]

I have the regular non leather zipfits and spent a few days getting in and out of them without taking them out of my boots first. Can confirm it did move the material around and deteriorated the fit. It also pushed the tongue OMfit down to painfully crush my instep :/

It was quickly fixed by a trip to the fitter who just heated the material and manipulated it away from the instep, and warned me about jamming my feet into them like that. I've put them on liner-first ever since and they've been great. You get used to it pretty quickly.

Agree - I've got Grand Prix Zipfits and found it almost impossible to get into the boots with the liners in. Much easier to snugly lace them up, then slide into the boots.

 

[Wade]

Agree - I've got Grand Prix Zipfits and found it almost impossible to get into the boots with the liners in. Much easier to snugly lace them up, then slide into the boots.

Agred. I used to struggle a little getting into ski boots. I find foot into Zipfit and then into boot to be easier and faster.

 

[Jeff@ZipFit]

WC and Freeride are slightly different designs, it's not just the amount of OMfit. The back cuff of the Freeride is softened via notches placed in the rear support plastic cuff. There may be other differences. Best to ask ZipFit directly.

Leather lining has significantly more grip on your foot. It's hydrophobic leather that, once exposed to some perspiration from your feet, becomes incredibly tacky, thus grabbing onto every part of your foot and leg. There is no getting in or out of a leather lined ZipFit without going racer style. If you want to be able to shove your foot into your boot without removing the liner then you'll need the neoprene lined version. However, I would strongly recommend that you do not try to use a ZipFit liner in this manner. You're bound to screw up the placement of the OMfit by shoving your foot in and out while the liner is in the shell.

Hey all, thanks for the thought you've put into considering ZipFit and your consideration of purchasing. I'm glad you were able to connect with Chris. We discussed this thread at length, and I wanted to chime in with a few points in response to some inquiries.

Freeride: more OMFit cork, traditional forward lean, fluted cuff which is more forgiving. I ski this model in neoprene, I leave it in my Tecnica Cochise 130 and I can get my boot on and off without taking the liner out each time.

World Cup: less OMFit cork, more aggressive forward line, stiffer cuff keeps your stance engaged. I also ski this model in the sidewinder style, which has stiff rubberized plastic the full height of the medial foot (inside of the foot). I also love this liner, and when I am more interested in ripping groomers and skiing en piste terrain, I haven't found a better performing liner.

Neoprene vs. Leather - Sven loves the feel and durability of leather. As some folks have pointed out, the leather can be slightly harder to get in and out of (I like imagining putting on leather pants vs. a neoprene wetsuit - both can be tricky!). The Neoprene also offers slightly more cushion, as the material has more give than the leather.

On the website, we currently have four models listed, some of which you can get in neoprene or leather, others are just available in leather. If you go to your local ski shop, you may find models that are not online. They are still current models, but when we decided to offer ZipFits online (a result of COVID and catching up with the times) we wanted to start small with just the select models featured.

This community is great, our team will follow along here and try to offer insight when it's applicable. Feel free to reach out on social media or through the website. Wishing all of you a winter full of as much skiing as possible. -Jeff

 

[Noodler]

Great to have you join the conversation @Jeff@ZipFit. Here are some thoughts for you from a longtime ZipFit user (8 pairs since 2006). I started in the ZipFit Plug Leather liner and the Plug NeoPlush, which then progressed through multiple pairs of the World Cup (SE and non-SE) and Gara (Stealth and non-Stealth) over the years. In most ski seasons I have 3 active pairs of boots in my quiver and they are all setup with ZipFit liners. I have personally experienced many of the changes in these liners through the different versions that were produced over the years. My latest ZipFit is the Gara Stealth from 2020 (with the new honeycomb material on the exterior of the cuff).

My wish list for ZipFit Liners:

• One of the more significant changes that I do not like is the introduction of the eyelets on forefoot for the lacing. This brings the laces to the exterior of the liner. First, this causes the laces to create a pressure spot over the forefoot, but worse for me is that the laces and the eyelets themselves cause snags when going in and out of the shell "racer style". For skiers that put their liners on first before donning the shell, it's much better to have more "loops" for the laces lower on the throat instead of eyelets. This keeps the lacing "inside" of the liner, without creating pressure spots and eliminates the potential for snagging on the shell.
• I have noticed that the latest iteration of the Gara liner now has a bit of foam padding added into the sole of the liner. It is a bit thicker under the heel than the forefoot/toes. There is no good reason to have padding added under the foot in my opinion. This creates more challenges in fitting the footbeds to the boot and decreases the responsiveness of the liner in a critical area under the foot. The sole needs to be "hard" and perfectly flat.
• The newer honeycomb material on the upper cuff does not work better than the leather wrapped exterior of the previous generations. The leather conforms better to the shell and is more durable. It also looks a lot more "classy" as full leather; with the cuff and ankle areas breaking in better as the liner is skied more.
• The leather over the ankle/heel area of my latest 2020 liner is significantly stiffer and less supple than previous generations. This may just be a challenge due to the supplier/source of the leather, but a more compliant, but durable leather in this area works better for fitting the liner to the shell. I anticipate that it will take my 2020 Gara much longer to get to optimal performance than previous iterations.
• The latest version of the Gara Stealth is higher in overall volume than previous generations. There is more volume to the foam parts (back of the inside of the cuff, etc.) and the liner in general. The Gara is supposed to be the model most ready for use in a race plug fit. This latest Gara Stealth took a ton of work to get it into a race plug boot. Way more than it should have as compared to previous iterations.
• Finally, I have never used the top strap of a ZipFit liner. I find it simply unnecessary and it just adds too much bulk to the top of the liner making it difficult to impossible to close the boot shell. If you must include a top strap, please redesign the liner to make its removal easier and the liner more "independent" from the strap so that removal isn't even obvious if it's not on the liner. In turn, the loops for the laces should continue higher up on the liner. The laces alone can be setup to be more than sufficient to completely close the liner and provide strong support for the foot and leg.

All that said, the ZipFit liner has proven to be the best option I have found for skiing. Even with my concerns, I have found ZipFit liners to far outperform anything else I've ever skied (and I was an Intuition user also for many years). The dynamic capability of the OMfit compound is the true differentiator from every other liner available. With a few more changes, I would consider the ZipFit liner absolutely perfect.

 

[Jeff@ZipFit]

Great to have you join the conversation @Jeff@ZipFit. Here are some thoughts for you from a longtime ZipFit user (8 pairs since 2006). I started in the ZipFit Plug Leather liner and the Plug NeoPlush, which then progressed through multiple pairs of the World Cup (SE and non-SE) and Gara (Stealth and non-Stealth) over the years. In most ski seasons I have 3 active pairs of boots in my quiver and they are all setup with ZipFit liners. I have personally experienced many of the changes in these liners through the different versions that were produced over the years. My latest ZipFit is the Gara Stealth from 2020 (with the new honeycomb material on the exterior of the cuff).

My wish list for ZipFit Liners:

• One of the more significant changes that I do not like is the introduction of the eyelets on forefoot for the lacing. This brings the laces to the exterior of the liner. First, this causes the laces to create a pressure spot over the forefoot, but worse for me is that the laces and the eyelets themselves cause snags when going in and out of the shell "racer style". For skiers that put their liners on first before donning the shell, it's much better to have more "loops" for the laces lower on the throat instead of eyelets. This keeps the lacing "inside" of the liner, without creating pressure spots and eliminates the potential for snagging on the shell.
• I have noticed that the latest iteration of the Gara liner now has a bit of foam padding added into the sole of the liner. It is a bit thicker under the heel than the forefoot/toes. There is no good reason to have padding added under the foot in my opinion. This creates more challenges in fitting the footbeds to the boot and decreases the responsiveness of the liner in a critical area under the foot. The sole needs to be "hard" and perfectly flat.
• The newer honeycomb material on the upper cuff does not work better than the leather wrapped exterior of the previous generations. The leather conforms better to the shell and is more durable. It also looks a lot more "classy" as full leather; with the cuff and ankle areas breaking in better as the liner is skied more.
• The leather over the ankle/heel area of my latest 2020 liner is significantly stiffer and less supple than previous generations. This may just be a challenge due to the supplier/source of the leather, but a more compliant, but durable leather in this area works better for fitting the liner to the shell. I anticipate that it will take my 2020 Gara much longer to get to optimal performance than previous iterations.
• The latest version of the Gara Stealth is higher in overall volume than previous generations. There is more volume to the foam parts (back of the inside of the cuff, etc.) and the liner in general. The Gara is supposed to be the model most ready for use in a race plug fit. This latest Gara Stealth took a ton of work to get it into a race plug boot. Way more than it should have as compared to previous iterations.
• Finally, I have never used the top strap of a ZipFit liner. I find it simply unnecessary and it just adds too much bulk to the top of the liner making it difficult to impossible to close the boot shell. If you must include a top strap, please redesign the liner to make its removal easier and the liner more "independent" from the strap so that removal isn't even obvious if it's not on the liner. In turn, the loops for the laces should continue higher up on the liner. The laces alone can be setup to be more than sufficient to completely close the liner and provide strong support for the foot and leg.

All that said, the ZipFit liner has proven to be the best option I have found for skiing. Even with my concerns, I have found ZipFit liners to far outperform anything else I've ever skied (and I was an Intuition user also for many years). The dynamic capability of the OMfit compound is the true differentiator from every other liner available. With a few more changes, I would consider the ZipFit liner absolutely perfect.

We hear you loud and clear. Thanks for your feedback, I've taken it to our team for consideration. We really value how much you care about foot comfort and ski boot performance. Feel free to email me if you have any additional feedback, we are happy to have an active discussion. [email protected]

I hope those of you in the Rockies are enjoying the fresh snow, for those of you in the northeast, I'm thinking about you and wishing you a snowy Christmas. My mother gives me updates from Cannon every three days and she seems desperate for more snow.

 

[dx111]

Are velcro attachment areas available as an option on any of the zipfit models so that spoilers can be installed? Given that my calf muscles attach high up, I have yet to find a boot with the exception of the Salomon S/Max that I can ski without a spoiler. Furthermore, with the craze of ever more upright boots with forward leans of merely 12 degrees, a spoiler is often indicated just to get the center of mass reasonably forward.