The Never-Ending Zipfit Discussion

[Noodler]

Tell you the truth I do not see much in terms of molding to the boot shell, there is something minimal in the ankles, never really though about that. Molding is on the inside of the liner. It took me just one heating to get them spot on and after applying the UHMW tape I really do not even think about them anymore. Just put them on feet, then in shells and ski.

How much heat and for how long when you did your heated fitting? This is where I note the difference in the liner's "hard parts" and how well they will mold to the contours of the shell. It's not just about the OMFit getting into the right places. I think you get the liner to mesh with the shell better when the liner is heated sufficiently so that the liner's plastic parts will also mold to the shell. Of course, too much heat will work against you if your shells are heat moldable. I see the results of this in my ZipFits that are in my Heads versus my Nordicas. The Head shells are not heat moldable, so I was able to use higher heat when molding those Zips. They show much more adaptation to the shell contours than the Zips that I put in my Nordicas since I couldn't use higher heat with the Nordica heat moldable shells.

 

[Tony Storaro]

How much heat and for how long when you did your heated fitting?

Cant remember. It was last year after all. But as it was done by a bootfitter who works with heat moldable liners, I guess they followed the normal procedure. What is it? 90C for 5 minutes?
I am already so happy with them that I do not plan any further experiments with molding. I only might add half a tube in each tongue to see how it will feel.

 

[Noodler]

Cant remember. It was last year after all. But as it was done by a bootfitter who works with heat moldable liners, I guess they followed the normal procedure. What is it? 90C for 5 minutes?
I am already so happy with them that I do not plan any further experiments with molding. I only might add half a tube in each tongue to see how it will feel.

Current "normal" procedure is to heat the shells, not the liners. So I wonder what the shop actually did.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Current "normal" procedure is to heat the shells, not the liners. So I wonder what the shop actually did.

Heated the liners. The guy said he will never heat up shells unless it is absolutely necessary and they need work and molding.
I remember him mentioning that heating up reduces the strength of the shell...or making them softer...or something.
He must have known something as I explained carefully what I am trying to achieve. He put them in one of them ovens they use for shells, kept them there for 5 minutes or so, then I put my feet in them, and then with quite a lot of struggle, sweating and cursing-into the shells. Then I stood still with a plank under my toes for a couple of minutes, then walked around for 15 minutes and that was that.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I need to add a bit more cork to the tongue. Already added a small amount but need a tad more.

Is there only one bladder in the tongue?

 

[Noodler]

I need to add a bit more cork to the tongue. Already added a small amount but need a tad more.

Is there only one bladder in the tongue?

 

[chris_the_wrench]

View attachment 128086

Ah yes, thanks!

 

[locknload]

Curious as to where the flap is on the tongue for the bladder? Can you describe, please. Will pull the liners our of my boot and investigate.

 

[givethepigeye]

@locknload - it’s right here:

 

[givethepigeye]

Also - if nobody has been in them, you will need something like this to dig them out - there are 2 flaps

 

[locknload]

@locknload - it’s right here:

View attachment 128394

Thank you! Right at the top there....ok. I don't currently need to add...but just want to understand where all the bladder access points are.

 

[locknload]

Also - if nobody has been in them, you will need something like this to dig them out - there are 2 flaps

View attachment 128397

So get out some chopsticks and that will do the trick?

 

[givethepigeye]

@locknload if you are good. Those are giant tweezers used by chefs and mechanics.

 

[Jersey Skier]

Anybody ever measure around their ankles? I always have a little more room in my right boot than my left just below the ankle bone. No heal lift ever, but not quite as snug. I also have to tighten that boot more. I just grabbed a caliper and measured. Almost 4mm narrower. Might be time to add some Omfit to that area.

 

[Noodler]

I added another pair of ZipFit Gara Stealth liners to my quiver. I decided this past week that the ZipFit Gara liners I bought in 2010 weren't the best match any longer for my Nordica GPX 130 shells. My data shows that I have just under 250 days on the old liners. There's no reduction at all in the liners' ability to provide sufficient support and hold down power, but some of the lace loops are almost completely cut through, the rear cuff pull loop is too small to use with gloves on, and some of the internal neoprene lining has separated and is starting to form wrinkles if I'm not careful when putting them on. They'll continue to live on in my Head B3 RD boots, so they're not dead yet!

 

[AmyPJ]

I added some Omfit to both tongues and also around the forefoot on the right foot as I still had too much wiggle room there. The tongues were crushing the top of my ankle, but what really happens is because my ankles are so small and bony, most liners fold there and pinch. Adding Omfit smoothed them out, but I also left the laces out without any noticeable decrease lack in snugness. I no longer have the pinching at the curve of the ankle, which was causing nerve pain in that area (this is common for me in most boots.)

My skiing has jumped to a new level, particularly in confidence, because of these liners and the precise control I now have. Steeps have always been a real struggle for me, yet this entire week, I skied several runs on the men's and women's downhill sections at Snowbasin (Wildflower and Grizzly.) I skied them 4 times in a row on Saturday. This is unheard of for me. Wildflower still scares me a bit--it's pretty damned steep, and it's long, but for me to ski it, in control, without stopping, is a big breakthrough. I purposefully skied Grizzly doing as short radius turns as I could, coming almost to a stop at the bottom of each turn because I actually COULD. Unreal. In the past, I'd survival ski down it, my skis shooting across the hill in front of me no matter how hard I tried to keep them beneath me.

Game changers for me. They are not the most comfy for a full day of skiing, and yesterday, with temps after noon near 50 degrees on the hill, I was getting some slop, but my feet were sweating and my boots were squishing like slippers. My husband was having the same issues in his boots. It was just one of those days. I'm not sure any liners have been particularly comfy for me for a full day, because my feet are really bony and my heels in particular tend to get uncomfortable after a full day. A nice pair of shoes is also uncomfortable after standing or walking a full day.

I wish the season wasn't ending in two weeks. I have work to do!

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I added some Omfit to both tongues and also around the forefoot on the right foot as I still had too much wiggle room there. The tongues were crushing the top of my ankle, but what really happens is because my ankles are so small and bony, most liners fold there and pinch. Adding Omfit smoothed them out, but I also left the laces out without any noticeable decrease lack in snugness. I no longer have the pinching at the curve of the ankle, which was causing nerve pain in that area (this is common for me in most boots.)

Glad to hear your experience, mines been similar. Curious about your tongue issues. The addition of more omfit material to the tongue made the pinching/tightness go away?

 

[Noodler]

Glad to hear your experience, mines been similar. Curious about your tongue issues. The addition of more omfit material to the tongue made the pinching/tightness go away?

Think of OMFit like padding that doesn't break down. So, it's also been my experience that more OMFit increases the comfort of the liner. Of course, you need the right amount, not an excessive amount just for comfort's sake.

 

[AmyPJ]

Think of OMFit like padding that doesn't break down. So, it's also been my experience that more OMFit increases the comfort of the liner. Of course, you need the right amount, not an excessive amount just for comfort's sake.

Yes, this. Be warned that adding it towards the heel can push the toes forward. Good thing is you can squish it forward with your fingers, or by a heel "sweep and lift" of the liner while your foot is in it, or standing on the heels while the liner is warm. Some of the Omfit I added towards the instep moved back and was pushing my toes forward too far (I have a race fit length-wise in my boots.)

 

[Noodler]

I added another pair of ZipFit Gara Stealth liners to my quiver. I decided this past week that the ZipFit Gara liners I bought in 2010 weren't the best match any longer for my Nordica GPX 130 shells. My data shows that I have just under 250 days on the old liners. There's no reduction at all in the liners' ability to provide sufficient support and hold down power, but some of the lace loops are almost completely cut through, the rear cuff pull loop is too small to use with gloves on, and some of the internal neoprene lining has separated and is starting to form wrinkles if I'm not careful when putting them on. They'll continue to live on in my Head B3 RD boots, so they're not dead yet!

I thought some folks might like to see the difference between a ZipFit Gara from 2010 that has almost 250 days on it and a brand new 2021 ZipFit Gara Stealth (although I did complete the heat fittings on the liner shown in the pics). The pics show a very broken in liner that uses the original soft supple leather panels and upper cuff treatment vs. the new model that has the harder leather panels and the new Stealth honeycomb treatment on the cuff.

Sorry that liner positions flip back and forth in the pics (wasn't thinking about that!).

My takeaway is how well a 10 year old ZipFit liner still looks and functions (and note that I go in/out of the shells racer style every time).