The Never-Ending Zipfit Discussion

[chris_the_wrench]

Any tips? Not particularly thinking I need to take cork out yet.

When I installed zip fits in my Raptors, they were a struggle to close up without one side of the cuff overlap interfering with the other side. I use a 3" plastic putty knife as a 'tongue depresser'. I can guide the cuff to where it was supposed to go, close the buckle, and pull the knife out. The plastic putty knife isn't sharp but it's flexible and just rigid enough for the job. I used this for awhile till the liner and cork material settled where it needed to go. Now I only use the putty knife if I've recently added some cork.

This is indoors at home after warming in front of fire so only going to get worse in a frozen parking lot.

I live about 10-15 min from the parking lot, and drive alone 99% of the time so I toss the liners and shells in the passenger footwell with the heater going. That works wonders for me, but if that wasn't possible for me(regular passengers, etc) I would definitely invest in a heated boot bag.

 

[fatbob]

When I installed zip fits in my Raptors, they were a struggle to close up without one side of the cuff overlap interfering

Thanks - I've been using the end of a sharpie to try to push down the offending clog element which seems to obstruct the cuff. Putty knife sounds good.

Yeh - do the footwell thing myself when I'm driving alone even if it means toasting my contact lenses before I'm at the hill!

 

[givethepigeye]

I will likely have a 27.5 pair of WC liners available - these are older version with leather on the outside all the way up (unfortunately not inside). I used them for one season and got the new version on a deal. They seem to be about the same around the house/garage, need to ski them to make sure <- which will happen in Dec. Assuming all goes well - the old ones are heading out for somebody else to take the plunge for not a lot of $$.

 

[fatbob]

I will likely have a 27.5 pair of WC liners available - these are older version with leather on the outside all the way up (unfortunately not inside). I used them for one season and got the new version on a deal. They seem to be about the same around the house/garage, need to ski them to make sure <- which will happen in Dec. Assuming all goes well - the old ones are heading out for somebody else to take the plunge for not a lot of $$.

Could be interested - if the others work out for me might be keen on another pair to put in slightly different fitting snowboard/tele boots.

 

[givethepigeye]

@fatbob - ill let you know, or send me a PM to remind me around Christmas. I cant imagine that they wont be available, but heck the world is crazy now, and never say never.

 

[Noodler]

Picked up some Gran Prix - which looking at the Zipfit website they've recently rebranded as Freeride with a lower rear spoiler and a bit of fluting to increase comfort for large calves. Despite the lack of these mods and my gargantuan calves not that uncomfortable at the back. But even with a mega large shell (Hawx Magna) finding it hard to close up the boot (without profuse swearing)- think it's the volume at base of the tongue impacting shell overlap. This is indoors at home after warming in front of fire so only going to get worse in a frozen parking lot.

Any tips? Not particularly thinking I need to take cork out yet.

Somewhere in this mega thread are my fitting instructions (probably a few times actually). Let me know if you can't find the post.

 

[trieu]

@Noodler - is post #24 - the latest one, or are there other revisions and updates to it.

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler - is post #24 - the latest one, or are there other revisions and updates to it.

Thanks for finding that. I know that there are more posts after that where we had more discussion about the nuances of the process. That was the original process that heats the shells and the liners. I have since decided that what we really want is for the liner to adapt to the shell and your foot. We don't want the liner fitting to change the shell, at least not initially. A ZipFit liner will break-in and conform to the shell a lot more than you might expect. If the initial liner fitting accidentally widens the shells, the shells will be too wide once the liners fully break-in.

So here is the process with the modification to keep the boot shells cool:

1. Put a layer of foil or use a silicone cooking sheet on top of the oven rack.
2. Preheat oven to 175* F for 10 minutes (use the convection mode if oven is capable).
3. Remove the liners from the boots and also remove the footbeds from the liners.
4. Reduce oven temp to 150* F and place liners in oven on their sides, heat the liners for 10 minutes.
5. Remove liners from oven.
6. Replace footbeds in liners after heating.
7. Put liners on feet and tighten laces.
8. Put feet with liners into shells.
9. Buckle shells, set ankle pocket, and flex forward a few times, remain standing is ski stance.
10. Once liners have cooled remove (approximately 15 minutes).

It's a good idea to set all the buckle positions ahead of time so that they have sufficient reach to catch the ladders and have their positions be the same on both boots.

Edited to correct the temperaturs.

 

[Noodler]

I know I mentioned this before, but since I just posted the new modified instructions, I want to be clear about why I felt the process needed to be changed and why I wish ZipFit would change their publicly published process. It's because of the new crop of boot shell plastics that most manufacturers are using. The new heat moldable shells are able to be molded using fairly low temps (175* F or so). My Nordica "infrared" shells are an example of this. Normal PU shells require temps around 275* F for punches, etc., so heating the shells and the liners makes sense for an "old school" boot. If you have a heat moldable shell, there needs to be more care taken when you're dealing with a hot liner.

 

[David]

I know I mentioned this before, but since I just posted the new modified instructions, I want to be clear about why I felt the process needed to be changed and why I wish ZipFit would change their publicly published process. It's because of the new crop of boot shell plastics that most manufacturers are using. The new heat moldable shells are able to be molded using fairly low temps (175* F or so). My Nordica "infrared" shells are an example of this. Normal PU shells require temps around 275* F for punches, etc., so heating the shells and the liners makes sense for an "old school" boot. If you have a heat moldable shell, there needs to be more care taken when you're dealing with a hot liner.

I was just at Daleboot for new liners and they absolutely will not heat the shell for this very reason!

 

[Tony Storaro]

But even with a mega large shell (Hawx Magna) finding it hard to close up the boot (without profuse swearing)-

You mean after you have done the heat molding to them?

 

[Noodler]

Big huge disclaimer: ZipFit has updated their fitting instructions. They now state that the liners should not be heated above 150* F. I completed a heating last night using 175* F. I tested 225* F with an old liner and verified that the internal bladders and other parts of the liner would not melt at that temp and it passed just fine, but I haven't verified that the current crop of liners can handle the higher temps and since there isn't a huge advantage to using the higher heat, I recommend that anyone with a new ZipFit still under warranty tread carefully and use their instructions or a ZipFit dealer for the fitting process.

Also, they have a dealer page where they specifically tell dealers that if they cut the liner, the warranty is void. I found that interesting because a recently sold liner on the forum did have cuts in the heel for heating cables. Dealers also need to heed the warning.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

ZipFit has updated their fitting instructions. They now state that the liners should not be heated above 150* F.

Anyone tried the intuition method, with the hot rice in the nylon ‘sock’, with Zip Fits?

 

[Noodler]

Anyone tried the intuition method, with the hot rice in the nylon ‘sock’, with Zip Fits?

If you take a look at their new home fitting instructions, they provide any number of methods to heat up the liner. Their only goal in this is to ensure that the OMFit cork compound is raised above room temp so that it can move more easily in the bladders. So something like the rice method would work to transfer the heat into the liner.

What this doesn't do is allow the plastic support parts to precisely conform to the shell shape. That's what I discovered long ago (~2010) and proceeded to do some testing with an old liner to see what I could do to get the plastic support in the upper cuff to better mesh with the boot shape. What ZipFit has done since then is to introduce the leather covered upper cuff (also had a thin layer of foam under the leather) to better mesh with the boot cuff, and now in the latest iterations they use the soft rubbery honeycomb material to provide that better connection to the shell. So the need to have the plastic actually reshape itself is reduced, but I still prefer to use the higher heat levels (I'll take my chances, but I have a lot of experience with this).

 

[Tony Storaro]

Big huge disclaimer: ZipFit has updated their fitting instructions. They now state that the liners should not be heated above 150* F.

 

[Noodler]

In other news, I now have over 50 days on my newer Gara Stealth liner (2021 version). I was doing some boot work yesterday and noticed that after 50 days on this liner, you can barely tell it's been used. The leather panels do not have the soft broken-in texture that all my older models developed over time. This also means that the leather side panels haven't really been formed more to the shape of the boot shell. I really wonder why ZipFit switched to this harder leather, so I have sent them a message to have a call this week to discuss their liners, liner fitting, and the liner materials. More to come hopefully...

 

[TheArchitect]

In other news, I now have over 50 days on my newer Gara Stealth liner (2021 version). I was doing some boot work yesterday and noticed that after 50 days on this liner, you can barely tell it's been used. The leather panels do not have the soft broken-in texture that all my older models developed over time. This also means that the leather side panels haven't really been formed more to the shape of the boot shell. I really wonder why ZipFit switched to this harder leather, so I have sent them a message to have a call this week to discuss their liners, liner fitting, and the liner materials. More to come hopefully...

I’d be interested to know if they suggest a way to accelerate the leather break-in. Maybe some leather cream?

 

[Noodler]

I’d be interested to know if they suggest a way to accelerate the leather break-in. Maybe some leather cream?

Great minds think alike. I just purchased two products this morning that promise to help soften and break-in leather goods. I'll post back on these if they actually work on this leather.

 

[Noodler]

For much of the past decade, ZipFit's marketing was really stuck in the Dark Ages. They weren't doing a great job of helping skiers really understand what was special about their liners and why skiers might want to consider buying the most expensive ski boot liner on the market. Clearly changes are afoot. Along with the "snazzy" new web site design, they are putting out new videos. The old videos with Sven have been mothballed.

 

[Roundturns]

In other news, I now have over 50 days on my newer Gara Stealth liner (2021 version). I was doing some boot work yesterday and noticed that after 50 days on this liner, you can barely tell it's been used. The leather panels do not have the soft broken-in texture that all my older models developed over time. This also means that the leather side panels haven't really been formed more to the shape of the boot shell. I really wonder why ZipFit switched to this harder leather, so I have sent them a message to have a call this week to discuss their liners, liner fitting, and the liner materials. More to come hopefully...

I have read with interest over the past years everything you have shared with us regarding how to fit a Zipfit liner in the boot and optimize the fit.

I bought Zipfits a few years back and lacking the necessary knowledge to make them fit properly in my shells, I could not make them work.

My take aways was how surprised how thick the upper liners were contrasted to the liner in the Atomic CS boot Inwas trying to use the Zipfits in.

My experience unfortunately was analogous to trying to fit 10 lbs of !!,, into a 5 lb. bag.
I lacked the expertise to figure these Zipfit liners out and make them work in my shells.

No doubt Zipfit liners are a super high end liner and for those users that figure out how to make them fit correctly, I’m sure they perform excellently.

In my case , I lacked the boot fitting skills to make them work and in all fairness the perseverence and skills to ” figure them out”.