The Never-Ending Zipfit Discussion

[Noodler]

I’m thinking you need to start making house calls to fit everyone into their ZipFits!!!

Remote only (there is a pandemic going on after all ).

 

[Triplet]

@Noodler , , have you skied the WC? What would you say about the Sidewinder?
In what shell/ was the fitting any harder than the Gara because of the plastic?
Would appreciate any feedback.

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler , , have you skied the WC? What would you say about the Sidewinder?
In what shell/ was the fitting any harder than the Gara because of the plastic?
Would appreciate any feedback.

I have multiple pairs of the WC, but none of them have the Sidewinder option. So unfortunately I cannot comment on what that hard plastic medial side panel does to either the fitting or the skiing. There has been a report up-thread that it adds even more stiffness to the liner and thus the boot when skiing. I wouldn't be surprised if it also is a bit more challenging in adapting to the boot. If I did have a Sidewinder model, I would definitely use the oven heating method to soften not only the OMFit cork, but also the plastic panel so that it would more readily conform to the contours of the boot shell. Of course, this means using higher heat, so there needs to be some caution about the boot shells potentially changing shape. Heat moldable shells use ridiculously low temps when being molded, so it's not hard to accidentally or intentionally reform the shell with the ZipFit fitting. Personally, I've decided that I'm not buying any more boots that have heat moldable plastic; I've got some thoughts on why it should be avoided, but I'll save that for another thread.

 

[givethepigeye]

I have some WC with the Sidewinder stuff on it and the old brown leather ones (which are for sale BTW in Garage section). Really have not noticed any difference. That black stuff isn’t hard plastic, at least not on mine. It does grip the shell so they don’t move with less pressure if that makes sense

 

[Shawn C.]

@Noodler

I just got a pair of world cup sidewinders today and tried fitting them following your procedure. Took me a second to get the hang of stepping into the shells with the liners on but I managed, however I was barely able to get the shells buckled at the ankle buckle even at the longest adjustment position. I basically had to squeeze my cuff together with one hand and crank the buckle over with the other and it was a bit tight on top of my ankle when standing. Is this something that will break in with repeated wear or are my shells not compatible? Any advice would be much appreciated!

I have the exact same problem @AchtungSki

It's to the point where I'm having to put my liners/boots on at home and have my wife drive to the mountain. I won't boot up in the lodge due to COVID going crazy here in UT and I fear that I won't be able to get the zip fits in the boot in the cold parking lot. If I foresee having to boot up in the lot, I'm going to take along the stock liners in case I can't get the zip fits to cooperate.

I'm 7 days in on my zip fits and the heel hold is fantastic. They're very warm as well, but unfortunately the foot pain I've had with every boot forever is still present. That's not the fault of the zip fits though.

 

[givethepigeye]

@Shawn C. - get yourself the heated bag, Rossi and Lange have them on their website, can’t remember who really makes it. It’s life changing for the Zipfits. When I’m in UT, I’m popping them on in the lot as well. Makes a difference. Or just position your shells under the heater vent. Don’t turn off car until booted up.

also you can likely move your buckle bails for a while as the OMFit gets in the right place - it should settle out. My Lange shells have been fine but the Nordica / Tecnica ones before needed this treatment.

 

[trieu]

Do you have a heated boot bag? Once I get to resort - I try to get into the boots wihin 10 minutes or so - and it's been a little struggle - but not too bad. I can't imagine trying it in the car "room temperature".

 

[Shawn C.]

Thanks, guys. I moved my top two bails the other day and that sure helped. I'll look into the boot bag. Hopefully someone has a double-sized bag so I can fit mine and my wife's boots in there.

 

[AchtungSki]

I have the exact same problem @AchtungSki

It's to the point where I'm having to put my liners/boots on at home and have my wife drive to the mountain. I won't boot up in the lodge due to COVID going crazy here in UT and I fear that I won't be able to get the zip fits in the boot in the cold parking lot. If I foresee having to boot up in the lot, I'm going to take along the stock liners in case I can't get the zip fits to cooperate.

I'm 7 days in on my zip fits and the heel hold is fantastic. They're very warm as well, but unfortunately the foot pain I've had with every boot forever is still present. That's not the fault of the zip fits though.

Did you heat and mold your shells at all? I only heated the liner once in the oven initially and then the past couple days I've been spot heating the zipfit with a hair dryer then putting them on. I've found it's gotten marginally easier but still a bit difficult to get buckled and my instep/midfoot/talus area is pretty uncomfortable unless I'm simulating a turn against a wall and getting compression towards the soles. I'm not sure whether I need to recook the liner itself or if I need to go get my shells heated to open up the throat a bit.

I was planning on getting out to the hill this weekend in the hopes that actually skiing in them would help but it's a bit discouraging to hear you're 7 days in with no improvement.

Edit: Managed to somewhat answer my own question below, going to give that a try and report back.

 

[AchtungSki]

More info...

When I'm working on getting the "bear trap" of the boot shell to close more completely over the ZipFit liner, here is the process. Right after inserting the hot liner into the shell (with my foot in it), I will first close the instep buckle of the shell while being very careful to ensure that the overlap is seated correctly. Then do the ankle buckle followed by the top buckle (the toe buckle is basically meaningless for the liner fitting). Flex the boot quite a few times and then go back to the instep buckle and tighten it. Then the ankle and top buckles again. Keep cycling through shell flexing and buckling tightening as long as you can handle it. When you can't handle the tightness any longer, pop open all the buckles and relax, but don't take your foot out of the shell. Your goal is to get the liner to break-in and form to your feet and the shell. This takes time and patience to do it correctly, but the end result will be fantastic.

If the Corsa is already fitting quite easily into your shells, there's a good chance that it will need more OMFit compound along the way. I'm willing to bet the Gara is the better match for your foot and shell.

@Shawn C. Perhaps this procedure might help us.

 

[TheArchitect]

Thanks, guys. I moved my top two bails the other day and that sure helped. I'll look into the boot bag. Hopefully someone has a double-sized bag so I can fit mine and my wife's boots in there.

Look at the Kulkea Thermal. I have one and there's no way I'd be able to get my Zipfits in the shells in the parking lot without them warmed up by the bag. I don't think anyone makes a double-sized boot bag but my only ownership experience is the Kulkea.

 

[Noodler]

I have some WC with the Sidewinder stuff on it and the old brown leather ones (which are for sale BTW in Garage section). Really have not noticed any difference. That black stuff isn’t hard plastic, at least not on mine. It does grip the shell so they don’t move with less pressure if that makes sense

Are we talking about the same thing? The Sidewinder is the plastic panel (covered in the black honeycomb material) that extends from the top of the cuff all the way down to the sole on the medial side of the liner.

 

[givethepigeye]

@Noodler - maybe not. I checked my bag - WC “Stealth”. But it does have that black sponge honeycomb stuff. On the sides basically were the leather would have been

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler - maybe not. I checked my bag - WC “Stealth”. But it does have that black sponge honeycomb stuff. On the sides basically were the leather would have been

Yeah, ZipFit's marketing leaves a lot to be desired. The "Stealth" came out when they decided to cover the outer upper cuff plastic in leather. Somehow covering plastic with leather makes it "stealthy"...

 

[JHust]

Yeah, ZipFit's marketing leaves a lot to be desired. The "Stealth" came out when they decided to cover the outer upper cuff plastic in leather. Somehow covering plastic with leather makes it "stealthy"...

I have a pair of gara stealth. They have the honeycomb black on the upper part of the cuff. Will that mold to the shape of the boot like the old leather ones used to? If not I'm assuming that there is no need to heat the boots up or should I anyway?

 

[Noodler]

I have a pair of gara stealth. They have the honeycomb black on the upper part of the cuff. Will that mold to the shape of the boot like the old leather ones used to? If not I'm assuming that there is no need to heat the boots up or should I anyway?

When ZipFit modified the Stealth option from using leather to using the new black honeycomb material, their marketing was about how the newer material did a better job of forming to the shell shape. So I guess the idea is that you wouldn't need to be concerned with heat for the adaptation to the shell.

My advice is that this really depends on how everything is coming together. You have your lower leg, in the liner, and in the shell. I would think that as long as there are no obvious gaps that you can see or feel (as you flex the boot) that you're fine. I think for most skiers we value "immediacy" in that connection with our boots and transferred to the skis. So any gaps or looseness in the "interface" would be problematic. That all said, my approach in heating the ZipFit in an oven means that the harder plastic parts soften a bit and thus they will more readily adapt to the contours of the boot shell. It's really up to you and what your goals are for the fit and function of your boot setup as to whether you should be concerned with heating the whole liner in an oven to complete the fit.

 

[fatbob]

Zipfit's marketing for such a good product remains appalling. Everything from model names to apparent tinkering with materials remains confusing and no wonder people are befuddled by the difference between Sidewinder and Trad.

Some of this is a bit outside their control - these are relatively high ticket items that have a long shelf life so no sensible retailer/fitter is not going to be keeping old stock around at near full price even if they are prior year models. Nor is anyone probably going to stock the full range in every size.

But even a clear delineation between models - perhaps by volume of OM fit rather than abstract names - what even is Gara? - would help.

Maybe the confusion is deliberate - they don't have money to spend on comms so they'd rather have fans and fitters do the evangelising for them while trying to explain the range.

 

[Noodler]

Zipfit's marketing for such a good product remains appalling. Everything from model names to apparent tinkering with materials remains confusing and no wonder people are befuddled by the difference between Sidewinder and Trad.

Some of this is a bit outside their control - these are relatively high ticket items that have a long shelf life so no sensible retailer/fitter is not going to be keeping old stock around at near full price even if they are prior year models. Nor is anyone probably going to stock the full range in every size.

But even a clear delineation between models - perhaps by volume of OM fit rather than abstract names - what even is Gara? - would help.

Maybe the confusion is deliberate - they don't have money to spend on comms so they'd rather have fans and fitters do the evangelising for them while trying to explain the range.

Very true. The fact that I've used these liners since 2006, owned 10 pairs, ski them upwards of 70-80 days per season... and I'm still confused about what the point of some of the model delineation is for says a lot. They definitely could use some help in this regard.

 

[givethepigeye]

Just to come back and say - I actually like how the "Stealth" liners work with that honeycomb stuff. It kind of grips the shell. likely wont harder with age, etc. Skis fine for me.

^this is coming from someone whose favorite auto is an aircooled, manual w/o any nanny gizmos and my watches need to be wound. So, some innovation is good......in moderation. that said would certainly love the OG all leather-lined WC - maybe they with ride the "vintage" train one day.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

I have a pair of the honeycomb, a pair of the leather and an old pair of the hard plastic liners. I don't notice a difference between the honeycomb and leather. The plastic pair is noticeably different.