Noodler

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So, to pour more salt on the wound and continue the Zipfit Confusion Game…here is the response direct from ZipFit to my last question to them:

Question: “Last question…on the previous models (World Cup vs. Gara) which liner has less cork material initially, or are they the same?”

Answer: SAME

So, the run around the bushes continues…if either of these did not work or fit previously (assuming too much cork or taking up too much volume in an already low volume boot shell fit based upon my foot shape/size), why would they recommend a higher volume liner such as the Freeride?

Here is another response to a similar question: “Previously, we had the World Cup liner and the Gara liner - they were the same liner with different colorways, so we got rid of the World Cup to simplify our offerings.”

I guess I’m trying to determine which of their liners, if any are designed for a medium foot with high arch and midfoot in a lower volume shell based upon my actual foot and not just the shell dimensions? Just because it’s a medium or high volume shell (I.e. 100-102mm last) doesn’t mean it has a lot of room if my foot is taking up the majority of space…

OK, I'll make the decision for you... ;)

This all assumes you're only selecting from the new current models. The decision could be different if you have access to new old stock liners from somewhere.

First, forget the Freeride. That cuff isn't going to do you any favors if you only ski alpine.

Second, looks like the WC is only available now with the Sidewinder option. I don't think it's necessary for 99% of the skiers on the planet. It might be great (I don't know), but what I do know is that ZipFit liners perform fantastically without it.

Third, if you're not in a plug boot, forget the Corsa.

Finally, that leaves the Gara (which is the model I own the most of). There never was a Gara HV originally, so I'm going to assume that the Gara LV is the Gara that I have. So buy the Gara LV and if you end up needing some OMFit cork, it's now really easy to get directly from ZipFit (and it's cheap).

So there, you got it out of me. I've picked your liner for you. Of course standard disclaimer applies as I am not responsible for your ultimate happiness... ;) :roflmao:
 

givethepigeye

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@USCskibum - older Gara, new WC Stealth <- well last season. Also, Lange RS is 97mm, Nordica and the Tecnica Mach I LV I had in between were 98mm. All fit differently. The Nordica/Tecnica were obviously close, just like I would expect a Rossi Hero WC 140 to fit very similar to the Lange shell-wise. Injection tooling is expensive

Also - an RX liner is pretty cushy to start compared to a RS which is more firm.
id see if you could find a old RS liner before I threw down $500 for Zipfit, that may not fix it.
 
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USCskibum

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@USCskibum - older Gara, new WC Stealth <- well last season. Also, Lange RS is 97mm, Nordica and the Tecnica Mach I LV I had in between were 98mm. All fit differently. The Nordica/Tecnica were obviously close, just like I would expect a Rossi Hero WC 140 to fit very similar to the Lange shell-wise. Injection tooling is expensive

Also - an RX liner is pretty cushy to start compared to a RS which is more firm.
id see if you could find a old RS liner before I threw down $500 for Zipfit, that may not fix it.
Sorry, got my LX confused with RS…
 
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Triplet

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Third, if you're not in a plug boot, forget the Corsa.

Well, @Noodler , wouldn't the Corsa be the liner of choice for someone who has a very close fitting shell(doesn't matter if it is a Plug, 98 or 100mm wide last) ? What matters is the available space left once the foot is in the shell. Isn't this right?!
I am just curious too hear your thoughts on the topic.
 

Noodler

Just call me Sir Turn-a-lot
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Well, @Noodler , wouldn't the Corsa be the liner of choice for someone who has a very close fitting shell(doesn't matter if it is a Plug, 98 or 100mm wide last) ? What matters is the available space left once the foot is in the shell. Isn't this right?!
I am just curious too hear your thoughts on the topic.

Of course, but the Corsa is very low volume and my experience is that you're not going to get quite the fit and performance from that liner unless you are in a truly small shell. Let me put it this way, my shell fit is <5mm and I don't need to go with less than the Gara or WC. Sure it takes some work to get those liners into a tight fitting shell, but the result is worth the work. I have Head plugs (B2 and B3 RD) that have the Gara in them (Corsa didn't exist yet). I'll also note that I personally do not like the design of the Corsa. I prefer to have the laces remain within the throat of the liner rather then "exposed" between the liner and the shell.
 

Triplet

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Of course, but the Corsa is very low volume and my experience is that you're not going to get quite the fit and performance from that liner unless you are in a truly small shell. Let me put it this way, my shell fit is <5mm and I don't need to go with less than the Gara or WC. Sure it takes some work to get those liners into a tight fitting shell, but the result is worth the work. I have Head plugs (B2 and B3 RD) that have the Gara in them (Corsa didn't exist yet). I'll also note that I personally do not like the design of the Corsa. I prefer to have the laces remain within the throat of the liner rather then "exposed" between the liner and the shell.
Do you have moments when your toes are pushing against the front? And I remember you have 25.5 Zips, your Plugs are 2 sizes smaller, right? So your foot is 27.5, and the Zips fit fine in length?
 

Noodler

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Do you have moments when your toes are pushing against the front? And I remember you have 25.5 Zips, your Plugs are 2 sizes smaller, right? So your foot is 27.5, and the Zips fit fine in length?

Never touching the shell front. The fit of a ZipFit in a tight shell, once your foot is fully seated, keeps your toes off the front of the boot even in the most extreme back seat skiing situations. ZipFit has a fantastic level of heel hold down via the "cork-infused" tongue and ankle bladders; if it is all fit properly, you won't have the typical problem of "toe bang" found with stock liners.

Zips have very little material involved in the rear of the liner and the front of the liner, so they allow you to use a shorter shell than you would typically be able to get away with. ZipFit liners should fit like a sock, not a boot. Your forefoot and toes should be softly "held" by the liner's double-neoprene layer and stretch toe box.
 

AchtungSki

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@Shawn C. Perhaps this procedure might help us.

I've reheated the zipfits 2 additional times now (total of 3) and happy to report I'm making progress. Today I put the zipfits and shells on after they'd been sitting overnight in my fairly cool basement. I was able to get the ankle and shin buckles on the first notch with only a gentle squeeze. On the most recent reheat with the boots warmed up I could get them all the way to the 3rd notch during the break-in procedure, a decent improvement from barely getting the first notch during the initial fit. With the buckles backed off just to the first notch they're almost comfortable now. The liners themselves also look noticeably different, the gap between the halves of the upper at the base of the tongue is much narrower now and overall looks a lot more conformed to a foot shape than when I pulled them out of the packaging. I'm planning to take them for a spin tomorrow and I feel a lot better about being able to get them on in the parking lot, I still plan on leaving them in the footwell with the heat going on the way there though.

I have the WC sidewinder model and I do think some of my trouble is stemming from how far the sidewinder feature extends forward and up the medial side of the midfoot (See circled spot in the picture below). I have a bit of a hotspot on my right foot there and I think the rigidity of the plastic plus the extra 4 or so mm from the sidewinder and the rubberized material is a big contributor to my difficulties.
Zipfit-Sidewinder-2-e1625102967119.png
 

USCskibum

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I've reheated the zipfits 2 additional times now (total of 3) and happy to report I'm making progress. Today I put the zipfits and shells on after they'd been sitting overnight in my fairly cool basement. I was able to get the ankle and shin buckles on the first notch with only a gentle squeeze. On the most recent reheat with the boots warmed up I could get them all the way to the 3rd notch during the break-in procedure, a decent improvement from barely getting the first notch during the initial fit. With the buckles backed off just to the first notch they're almost comfortable now. The liners themselves also look noticeably different, the gap between the halves of the upper at the base of the tongue is much narrower now and overall looks a lot more conformed to a foot shape than when I pulled them out of the packaging. I'm planning to take them for a spin tomorrow and I feel a lot better about being able to get them on in the parking lot, I still plan on leaving them in the footwell with the heat going on the way there though.

I have the WC sidewinder model and I do think some of my trouble is stemming from how far the sidewinder feature extends forward and up the medial side of the midfoot (See circled spot in the picture below). I have a bit of a hotspot on my right foot there and I think the rigidity of the plastic plus the extra 4 or so mm from the sidewinder and the rubberized material is a big contributor to my difficulties. View attachment 155301

I’m thinking this could be the same issue with the standard liners as there appears to be more material at this location: leather, stitching and laces that all wrap around the instep. I’m just guessing that this could present fit issues for individuals such as myself who have high arches and midfoot height.

So, my question would be for an individual with a high instep (midfoot/arch) which is perhaps already taking up more volume than normal how do you address this between liner and shell interaction, if attempting to utilize a ZipFit liner?

EC4D0E32-4819-4E40-B7B8-3A80908A581F.png


4DB6646A-50BC-45D8-BD53-E03486400E50.jpeg
 

Noodler

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First, I do not use the "new" set of eyelets that they added in recent years (circled in green above). There's no way I would want the laces outside of the "throat" of the liner. In fact, on a couple pairs of the liners I have even removed the metal eyelets as they can be a source of hot spots.

Second, this area of concern is right where the flaps that access the ankle bladders reside. It was mentioned in one of the new ZipFit videos, that you should pull the flaps out and neatly pack them flat back into the liner slots. They don't always get those flaps situated in the slots in a "nice" way.
 

Noodler

Just call me Sir Turn-a-lot
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I've reheated the zipfits 2 additional times now (total of 3) and happy to report I'm making progress. Today I put the zipfits and shells on after they'd been sitting overnight in my fairly cool basement. I was able to get the ankle and shin buckles on the first notch with only a gentle squeeze. On the most recent reheat with the boots warmed up I could get them all the way to the 3rd notch during the break-in procedure, a decent improvement from barely getting the first notch during the initial fit. With the buckles backed off just to the first notch they're almost comfortable now. The liners themselves also look noticeably different, the gap between the halves of the upper at the base of the tongue is much narrower now and overall looks a lot more conformed to a foot shape than when I pulled them out of the packaging. I'm planning to take them for a spin tomorrow and I feel a lot better about being able to get them on in the parking lot, I still plan on leaving them in the footwell with the heat going on the way there though.

I have the WC sidewinder model and I do think some of my trouble is stemming from how far the sidewinder feature extends forward and up the medial side of the midfoot (See circled spot in the picture below). I have a bit of a hotspot on my right foot there and I think the rigidity of the plastic plus the extra 4 or so mm from the sidewinder and the rubberized material is a big contributor to my difficulties.

I had not considered that the Sidewinder also introduces more "bulk" to the liner, but this is probably so. Definitely something to consider when selecting the right liner for your boot.
 

AchtungSki

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Maybe I'll have to try taking out the laces out of the eyelets to see how that feels. I wouldn't personally characterize my instep as being very high but it seems like that's about the only recourse for one that is other than trying to get them really broken in would be remold your shell to accommodate. Funny you mention the bladder fill flaps though Noodler, I checked my right boot's medial flap and it was in fact bunched up inside. I folded it nicer and slipped it back in so hopefully that helps as well.

I ski'd about four hours today in them though I actually ran into another fairly significant issue. Surprisingly the midfoot/instep didn't give me trouble and honestly I didn't really notice any significant discomfort there other than it being a bit tighter than I'd prefer when standing around, I think that issue will dissipate with a bit more use. I did notice however that my calves were feeling pretty sore standing in the lift line (no pain when actually moving and skiing though). Walked back to my car without too much trouble until I got out of the ski boots and holy crap. I could barely walk or operate my car's pedals due to the pain. I've had some calf soreness occasionally after skiing and I'm used to DOMS from working out regularly but never anything like this. It took an hour plus of very gently stretching to be able to walk more normally. I've been icing and foam rolling now that I'm home and my ROM is slowly getting better but wow. Specifically it seems to be my soleus that's affected not the gastroc because I only run into pain when the ankle and knee are both flexed as in a skiing stance, even more specifically it's in my soleus at the level of the powerstrap on the zipfits not the entire muscle belly. I'm not sure if I maybe I cranked it too tight or just the fit is so tight and it was pinching my calf muscles? Now that I think about it my calves did seem to be feeling it a little just from standing in my athletic stance when doing the break ins, with my old liners that wasn't an issue. Maybe it being so tight at the ankle meant that my leg was only being supported at that lower point and not higher up at the shin meaning that I was basically just hanging off my calf muscles for 4 hours? Not entirely sure what to do about that to be honest.

On the plus side though wow do these things hold you in, the hold around the ankle and heel is like you stuck your foot in some sort of comfy cement. Took me a bit to recalibrate my skiing as I think I was used to the slop of my 60+ day stock liners but I definitely felt a much more direct connection to my skis and snappier, more precise inputs.
 

Noodler

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I don't use the strap on my zipfits either, and I also don't use those circled eyelets at the bottom, so the lacing on mine starts at the loops just above that.

Glad you figured it out. Sven is a smart guy, but I don't quite get the purpose of the strap on a liner. The strap takes up space in the cuff, but does so unevenly. It's also problematic to adjust it while skiing because that requires undoing the ski boot's upper cuff to try to get to the strap. I just don't see that working out real well...
 
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