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David

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Skier
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
1,346
Location
Holland, MI
Every time I see this video my knees hurt for a few days. I couldn't have done that when I was young and had legs of steel back when I spent my days running up and down stairs delivering furniture.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
Something I haven't mentioned in a while (and not sure I've posted about it in this thread) is the attention that should be paid to the bootboard height. One of the common themes in this thread is the challenges folks have in getting the ZipFit liner to fit inside the shell with their foot. It's important to check the height of your bootboard and ensure that there is sufficient room above the bootboard for the sole of the ZipFit liner and your footbed of choice.

The way I go about this check is to remove the liner and the bootboard and place your bare foot into the shell while sitting down. Tip the shell back, slide your foot it, and then position the foot against the back of the shell. While holding the shell with your hand, slide your foot up/down until it feels like the curvature of the boot spine (especially the heel area) best matches the shape of the back of your leg and heel. When you believe you have your foot in the best vertical position, note how this feels when well matched. Put the bootboard back in the shell and repeat the process. Note whether you can get back into that same optimal position without the bootboard blocking your foot from getting low enough into the shell. Ideally, there should be a gap between the bottom of your foot and the top of the bootboard. That gap much be thick enough to accommodate the sole of the ZipFit liner and the footbed thickness. If there is insufficient room, your foot will sit higher in the shell than the optimal position.

For my feet I have found that every boot I own (5 in my active quiver) requires that the bootboard be ground down to make it thin enough so that it doesn't block my foot+liner from best aligning with the contours of the shell. If I don't drop my foot deeper into the shell, the ZipFit ankle bladders will not be aligned with the ankle pockets of the shell. A bootboard that's too thick can also create problems for the instep fit when using the ZipFit.

I just fit a new pair of Nordica boots. The stock bootboard was 28mm thick at the heel and 15mm at the toe. When the bootboard is modified for a correct fit, it is 20mm at the heel and 14mm at the toe (yes, I'm reducing the ramp angle also). The 8mm reduction in height at the heel is like "miles" in boot fitting. There's no way I would be able to fit into any of my shells when using ZipFit liners without this modification.

Note that it's important to correctly accommodate your dorsiflexion RoM when you make any changes to the bootboard, but that's beyond the scope of this post (lots of info about this elsewhere on the site).
 

chris_the_wrench

Spinning wrenches and throwing spokes.
Skier
Joined
Dec 20, 2020
Posts
1,369
Location
Chinook Pass
The stock bootboard was 28mm thick at the heel and 15mm at the toe. When the bootboard is modified for a correct fit, it is 20mm at the heel and 14mm at the toe (yes, I'm reducing the ramp angle also).

This is one area of the boot/zipfit combo that I found an unexpected bonus. I have skinny ankles/heels and all my previous boots/liner combos resulted in fitters wanting to install heel lifts to help take up volume/reduce slop. I never loved those because I felt unstable(never wore high-heels(yet) but kinda of what I would imagine it's like). With the zipfit liners I don't have to raise the heel and I feel alot more 'planted'. I actually prefer a good forward lean boot, but I like my toes abit higher vs my heel(ramp angle) than I think is normal. I had to do some grinding/sanding on the ribs/bootboard in the front of the raptors to give my toe knuckles abit more height clearance, I followed that up taking abit off the heel height to get the position I like. I haven't measured my boot board, but now Im curious...
 

BMC

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Posts
778
Something I haven't mentioned in a while (and not sure I've posted about it in this thread) is the attention that should be paid to the bootboard height. One of the common themes in this thread is the challenges folks have in getting the ZipFit liner to fit inside the shell with their foot. It's important to check the height of your bootboard and ensure that there is sufficient room above the bootboard for the sole of the ZipFit liner and your footbed of choice.

The way I go about this check is to remove the liner and the bootboard and place your bare foot into the shell while sitting down. Tip the shell back, slide your foot it, and then position the foot against the back of the shell. While holding the shell with your hand, slide your foot up/down until it feels like the curvature of the boot spine (especially the heel area) best matches the shape of the back of your leg and heel. When you believe you have your foot in the best vertical position, note how this feels when well matched. Put the bootboard back in the shell and repeat the process. Note whether you can get back into that same optimal position without the bootboard blocking your foot from getting low enough into the shell. Ideally, there should be a gap between the bottom of your foot and the top of the bootboard. That gap much be thick enough to accommodate the sole of the ZipFit liner and the footbed thickness. If there is insufficient room, your foot will sit higher in the shell than the optimal position.

For my feet I have found that every boot I own (5 in my active quiver) requires that the bootboard be ground down to make it thin enough so that it doesn't block my foot+liner from best aligning with the contours of the shell. If I don't drop my foot deeper into the shell, the ZipFit ankle bladders will not be aligned with the ankle pockets of the shell. A bootboard that's too thick can also create problems for the instep fit when using the ZipFit.

I just fit a new pair of Nordica boots. The stock bootboard was 28mm thick at the heel and 15mm at the toe. When the bootboard is modified for a correct fit, it is 20mm at the heel and 14mm at the toe (yes, I'm reducing the ramp angle also). The 8mm reduction in height at the heel is like "miles" in boot fitting. There's no way I would be able to fit into any of my shells when using ZipFit liners without this modification.

Note that it's important to correctly accommodate your dorsiflexion RoM when you make any changes to the bootboard, but that's beyond the scope of this post (lots of info about this elsewhere on the site).
Do you mean 2.8mm? 28mm seems a lot (2.8cm).
 

BMC

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Posts
778
Yeah not for me, but I’ll try again tomorrow!
Just as an update I tried the racer style entry again this morning. I didn’t try for long, but the effort i made was unsuccessful. I reverted to the non-Sven endorsed non-racer entry style.
 

chris_the_wrench

Spinning wrenches and throwing spokes.
Skier
Joined
Dec 20, 2020
Posts
1,369
Location
Chinook Pass
Just as an update I tried the racer style entry again this morning. I didn’t try for long, but the effort i made was unsuccessful. I reverted to the non-Sven endorsed non-racer entry style.
Do you have the low friction tape down the back of the boot shell and the boot board?
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
Just as an update I tried the racer style entry again this morning. I didn’t try for long, but the effort i made was unsuccessful. I reverted to the non-Sven endorsed non-racer entry style.

You must spread the "bear trap" at the throat of the boot if it's a stiff boot shell.
 

AchtungSki

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Posts
48
Location
Midwest
Today for kicks I threw the stock liner in one shell and my zipfit in the other and wow, it's crazy how much stiffness the liner alone adds. Flexing in the stock liner (boots are only 100 flex) felt like flexing the cuff of my hiking boot compared to the zipfit lol. I can't dorsiflex nearly as far with the zipfits when standing on both feet which I suppose makes sense with the laces and how substantial the liners are, especially with the sidewinder.
 

Shawn C.

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Posts
403
Location
Ogden, UT
Question. I have the "Grand Prix Freeride Stealth" (pictured below). Where are the OM fit pockets on this model? I ask as I'm still experiencing a lot of horrible pain/numbness in my insteps (top of my feet right above where the metal eyelets are). Maybe I need to remove some om fit from the tongue if there is any in there?

I skied them the other day and made the mistake of slightly tightening my top two buckles after a few runs and suffered for it horribly. Even loosening the top three buckles while riding on the lift didn't help. They were acceptably painful (barley) before I made this mistake. Once again, I'm not expecting bedroom slippers here; I know ski boots aren't supposed to be super comfy. I'm just looking to be rid of terrible pain.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide!
zip fit.jpg
 

USCskibum

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Posts
181
Question. I have the "Grand Prix Freeride Stealth" (pictured below). Where are the OM fit pockets on this model? I ask as I'm still experiencing a lot of horrible pain/numbness in my insteps (top of my feet right above where the metal eyelets are). Maybe I need to remove some om fit from the tongue if there is any in there?

I skied them the other day and made the mistake of slightly tightening my top two buckles after a few runs and suffered for it horribly. Even loosening the top three buckles while riding on the lift didn't help. They were acceptably painful (barley) before I made this mistake. Once again, I'm not expecting bedroom slippers here; I know ski boots aren't supposed to be super comfy. I'm just looking to be rid of terrible pain.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide!
View attachment 156239
My understanding is that none of the ZipFit liners come with any cork material over the midfoot/instep area.

There are three (3) areas to add cork material: https://www.zipfit.com/en-eu/fitting/

Adding Cork​

Do you need to tweak your Zipfit’s to get the perfect fit? Here are some tips to help get your boots dialed.

ZipFit liners are fully customizable with three ports to add (or remove) our heat moldable OMfit cork, the key component to our legendary custom fit. All you will need are some tubes of OMfit cork, our plunger tool, and ideally a way to keep everything warm while you work.

Two ports (or sleeves) are located between the first and second lace loops counting from the front up, one on each side, and the third port is located on the top of the tongue behind the rigid black plastic. These ports, when not in use, are folded over once and tucked away in between the interior and exterior layers of the liner.

To do any fitting work that requires adding or removing cork, locate the ports, which are made of a black synthetic fabric, and pull them out with your nails or gently with a tool such as tweezers. Once pulled out pry the two layers apart sufficiently so they look like a sleeve that the tube of OMfit cork tube can slide into. Pro tip – warming the cork tube up for 15 seconds in the microwave will make application easier.

Now push the tube to into the sack observing were the tip is at by looking at the inside of the liner. Point the end of the tube to where the OMfit material is needed. When the tube is correctly positioned use the plunger to push the OMfit material out of the tube and into the area of sack where it is wanted. Start small by adding only 1/4 or 1/2 of a tube. Remember that it is easier to add cork than to remove it. Once the cork is in place remove the tube and massage the OMfit cork with your fingers to even it out and push it where needed. Once done adding cork the liner the initial fitting process should be redone so that the newly added material takes the anatomical shape of the skiers foot.

Tongue – the tongue pouch can accommodate a significant amount of cork, but again start small and migrate the cork where you want it by kneading the neoprene on the tongue with your thumbs. In extreme cases, skiers with skinny shins have added upwards or 3 tubes of cork to each tongue to achieve the heel lock they desire.

Ankles – each ankle pouch is divided into three channels to help position cork precisely where you want it. There is a channel behind the ankle for increasing hold along the achilles tendon. There is a channel directly over the ankle to add cushion or fill out volume for skiers with smaller ankles. Lastly, there is a channel in front of the ankle that adds security along the sides of the instep and bridge of the foot. Once the tube of cork is inserted into the port, direct it either far toward the back of the boot, right over the ankle, or to the front of the ankle to add volume to your desired location.

In the event that there is too much cork in any particular area, first try warming the liner then massaging it to an area where it is less in the way, if it still is causing problems we recommend finding some kind of implement with no sharp edges to scoop some OMfit cork material out of the sack. We have had success with the handle of a spoon or with a loop of steel wire. In our experience it is rare to need to remove material.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
Question. I have the "Grand Prix Freeride Stealth" (pictured below). Where are the OM fit pockets on this model? I ask as I'm still experiencing a lot of horrible pain/numbness in my insteps (top of my feet right above where the metal eyelets are). Maybe I need to remove some om fit from the tongue if there is any in there?

I skied them the other day and made the mistake of slightly tightening my top two buckles after a few runs and suffered for it horribly. Even loosening the top three buckles while riding on the lift didn't help. They were acceptably painful (barley) before I made this mistake. Once again, I'm not expecting bedroom slippers here; I know ski boots aren't supposed to be super comfy. I'm just looking to be rid of terrible pain.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide!

Please read my post #905.
 

David

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Skier
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
1,346
Location
Holland, MI
After reading all of these posts I'm thinking of just sticking with Intuition liners...
 

chris_the_wrench

Spinning wrenches and throwing spokes.
Skier
Joined
Dec 20, 2020
Posts
1,369
Location
Chinook Pass
Looks like Zipfit is out of OMfit, I could use a couple tubes if anyone comes across any...
 

TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Posts
3,383
Location
Metrowest Boston
After reading all of these posts I'm thinking of just sticking with Intuition liners...
Trust me, Zipfits are worth it. Not all fitting experiences are the same. I heated mine 2-3 times in the oven at home and they've been good to go ever since. Others have more difficulty but like I said, it's worth the effort. The fit and hold is amazing. I used to crank my buckles down to get the tight, non-moving heel hold I crave but now 3 of 4 buckles are barely under tension. The one over the instep is merely snug and my heel is locked in.
 

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