The Never-Ending Zipfit Discussion

[givethepigeye]

I have had - original HotGear bag, a snow eagle (which I think is exactly the same as HotGear) and a Lange branded snow eagle. Plus an extra snow eagle just in case.

 

[Noodler]

I have had - original HotGear bag, a snow eagle (which I think is exactly the same as HotGear) and a Lange branded snow eagle. Plus an extra snow eagle just in case.

Yes, I couldn't remember the name of the original. It was HotGear and there were rebranded versions, like my ZipFit bag. I like that it's just one big fat heated compartment. It fits my shells, liners, and gloves all tossed in there. Another "secret" is that you can improve the performance of the bag by adding sheets of insulation on the sides and top (I found a roll of 1/4" foil-backed stuff that I cut to size). Also, the original HotGear bags were able to get much hotter than the newer Snow Eagle systems. So hot that they could alter boot shell punches and kill custom footbeds.

 

[OnEdge]

So after exiting the boot with liner on your foot, You then reinsert the liner in the boot to put it in the heated boot bag, and then take out again to put on your foot?

Sorry for looking for the “step by step” guide but its helpful!

New to ZipFits this year. Probably have 20 days on mine now.

I wouldn't bother putting the liner back in the boot without your foot.

I take off the boots at the end of day "racer style" taking the liner out with my foot still in it. Shells go in the heated boot bag (Snow Eagle) without the liners and the liners go on the dryer. In the morning I'll throw the liners on top of the shells in the bag but don't bother putting the liners back in the shell since I just need to take them back out to put the boots back on racer style - saves wear and tear on both the liners and my hands.....

I have the Freeride liner in Technica Cochise 130 boots and have been extremely pleased. In and out of the boots has been much easier than I was expecting and is a non issue for me, including in the parking lot. I probably need a little additional cork now that the liners have been broken in, but its a low priority need.

Good luck!

 

[Triplet]

@Noodler is your 2021 Gara in leather lined fully with leather(like the Corsa) or you have some neoprene like the WC( the tongue and at the back of the leg)? We don't count the toe box, that's neoprene anyway.

Any warmth difference between the neoprene Gara and the leather lined?

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler is your 2021 Gara in leather lined fully with leather(like the Corsa) or you have some neoprene like the WC( the tongue and at the back of the leg)? We don't count the toe box, that's neoprene anyway.

Any warmth difference between the neoprene Gara and the leather lined?

It's the latter like the WC. In my view, a questionable design decision to have the neoprene down the top half of the back of the cuff as if that's really going to do much for someone to try and put on the boots with these liners already in the shell. If you can do that with these liners, your boot shells are WAY TOO BIG.

I haven't noticed any warmth difference as the toe boxes are the same and that's really where you sense the warmth of most any liner.

 

[TheArchitect]

After skiing in my Zipfits for 10 days now I've decided that I'd like it if my heels were a little tighter laterally and if my ankle bones weren't touching the shells as much. I THINK that if there was more OMfit on each side it would both tighten up the pocket and give me a little extra distance off the shell. I'm thinking a couple millimeters would do it on each side. Speaking of millimeters, I'm thinking I'd also like it if my toes were a few millimeters back from the front of the boot. I'm wondering what the best way to go about that is. @Noodler what do you think? I have two tubes of OMfit on hand but I'm not sure where to add it or how much. I have the Gara Stealth Leather from last year.

 

[AchtungSki]

Does anyone happen to know what last size the WC is? After playing around with my custom insoles, old liners, zipfits I discovered that part of the calf pain I was experiencing was due to the insole not sitting flat in the liner when I put them on. Essentially the arch side of the insole tends to ride up the liner, canting the footbed and tilting how my foot sits in the boot and causing discomfort in the sole of my foot and my calf over longer periods of time. The last couple days I've been out I've had to head back to the lodge a multiple times to take off the liners, reposition the foot beds, then suit back up. Annoying to say the least. It seems clear to me that the footbed is too wide for the zipfits, for reference my boots/old liners are 98mm 27/27.5. I believe that the footbeds need to be grinded by a bootfitter and can't simply just be cut so I wanted to get as much info as possible.

 

[Noodler]

After skiing in my Zipfits for 10 days now I've decided that I'd like it if my heels were a little tighter laterally and if my ankle bones weren't touching the shells as much. I THINK that if there was more OMfit on each side it would both tighten up the pocket and give me a little extra distance off the shell. I'm thinking a couple millimeters would do it on each side. Speaking of millimeters, I'm thinking I'd also like it if my toes were a few millimeters back from the front of the boot. I'm wondering what the best way to go about that is. @Noodler what do you think? I have two tubes of OMfit on hand but I'm not sure where to add it or how much. I have the Gara Stealth Leather from last year.

Sounds like you need a bit in Chamber 2. Luckily it's the easiest of the ankle chambers to access:

If you think there's a bit too much OMFit in chamber 1 (potentially pushing your foot forward), you might want to try warming the liners a bit and then massaging material out of chamber 1 and into chamber 2 (before you add more to chamber 2). However, I would be really surprised if Chamber 1 actually has too much OMFit and is pushing your foot forward, that's not common unless more material was added.

Best method I've found to massage the material from chamber to chamber is to place the warmed liner on a hard flat table (or the floor) and press the OMFit with your hand inside the liner, using your fingers pressing through the liner against the table/floor to massage the material to where you need it.

Remember a couple things. First, the best way to kick your foot rearward in the liner is to have sufficient material in the lower half of the tongue. The second is to make sure your foot is well positioned in the shell to match the contours of the shell (especially the heel and ankle pockets). I posted previously about how to check this. If your foot is sitting "high" in the shell, then your heel will not be as far back as possible if it's not really sitting at the proper level with the shell's heel pocket. My personal opinion is that if you get the foot positioned correctly and are using a ZipFit liner, you will probably be able to get into a smaller shell (my 27 foot is in a 25 shell for example).

 

[Noodler]

Does anyone happen to know what last size the WC is? After playing around with my custom insoles, old liners, zipfits I discovered that part of the calf pain I was experiencing was due to the insole not sitting flat in the liner when I put them on. Essentially the arch side of the insole tends to ride up the liner, canting the footbed and tilting how my foot sits in the boot and causing discomfort in the sole of my foot and my calf over longer periods of time. The last couple days I've been out I've had to head back to the lodge a multiple times to take off the liners, reposition the foot beds, then suit back up. Annoying to say the least. It seems clear to me that the footbed is too wide for the zipfits, for reference my boots/old liners are 98mm 27/27.5. I believe that the footbeds need to be grinded by a bootfitter and can't simply just be cut so I wanted to get as much info as possible.

I agree with you. The footbeds should be modified to sit correctly in the liner/shell. Grinding away the sides of the footbeds via a benchtop sander or a grinding wheel is the right way to go about this, but if you don't have the tools or experience, find thee a fitter to help out.

 

[TheArchitect]

Sounds like you need a bit in Chamber 2. Luckily it's the easiest of the ankle chambers to access:

View attachment 158577

If you think there's a bit too much OMFit in chamber 1 (potentially pushing your foot forward), you might want to try warming the liners a bit and then massaging material out of chamber 1 and into chamber 2 (before you add more to chamber 2). However, I would be really surprised if Chamber 1 actually has too much OMFit and is pushing your foot forward, that's not common unless more material was added.

Best method I've found to massage the material from chamber to chamber is to place the warmed liner on a hard flat table (or the floor) and press the OMFit with your hand inside the liner, using your fingers pressing through the liner against the table/floor to massage the material to where you need it.

Remember a couple things. First, the best way to kick your foot rearward in the liner is to have sufficient material in the lower half of the tongue. The second is to make sure your foot is well positioned in the shell to match the contours of the shell (especially the heel and ankle pockets). I posted previously about how to check this. If your foot is sitting "high" in the shell, then your heel will not be as far back as possible if it's not really sitting at the proper level with the shell's heel pocket. My personal opinion is that if you get the foot positioned correctly and are using a ZipFit liner, you will probably be able to get into a smaller shell (my 27 foot is in a 25 shell for example).

Thanks @Noodler for info. Zipfit really should be paying you.

Is this a case of a little bit of OMfit goes a long way? I imagine that the best approach when adding to chamber 2 is to add maybe an inch from the tube to each side and see how that does and add more if necessary. From reading this thread it's a lot easier to add material than remove.

When I first got the liners I massaged the OMfit from the bottom of the tongue to the top so right now there's very little. I think I'll massage it back down and see how that goes.

 

[Noodler]

Thanks @Noodler for info. Zipfit really should be paying you.

Is this a case of a little bit of OMfit goes a long way? I imagine that the best approach when adding to chamber 2 is to add maybe an inch from the tube to each side and see how that does and add more if necessary. From reading this thread it's a lot easier to add material than remove.

When I first got the liners I massaged the OMfit from the bottom of the tongue to the top so right now there's very little. I think I'll massage it back down and see how that goes.

I like the idea to go with about 1" to start. Like you said, generally easier to add than subtract.

I would feel better though knowing that you have assessed your foot position and how well it's aligning with the heel pocket. Do you believe your heel is getting deep into the pocket of the shell (not just the liner)? How thick is your footbed? Another test I didn't mention in the other post is to just throw your footbed into the shell without the liner and then put your foot in. The sole of the Zip isn't particularly thick in the heel, so the footbed and bootboard control the vertical position the most. How well does the curve from your heel up into your Achilles tendon match up with the back of the shell when the bootboard and footbed are in there? Does it improve without the bootboard (foot sits lower)?

 

[TheArchitect]

I like the idea to go with about 1" to start. Like you said, generally easier to add than subtract.

I would feel better though knowing that you have assessed your foot position and how well it's aligning with the heel pocket. Do you believe your heel is getting deep into the pocket of the shell (not just the liner)? How thick is your footbed? Another test I didn't mention in the other post is to just throw your footbed into the shell without the liner and then put your foot in. The sole of the Zip isn't particularly thick in the heel, so the footbed and bootboard control the vertical position the most. How well does the curve from your heel up into your Achilles tendon match up with the back of the shell when the bootboard and footbed are in there? Does it improve without the bootboard (foot sits lower)?

I'll make the assessment as you suggest before doing anything. Generally speaking I'm pretty happy with the fit and just want to tweak it a bit.

 

[Noodler]

I'll make the assessment as you suggest before doing anything. Generally speaking I'm pretty happy with the fit and just want to tweak it a bit.

Cool. The only other way you're going to get fore/aft room in a shell is toe box punch/grinding.

 

[TheArchitect]

Cool. The only other way you're going to get fore/aft room in a shell is toe box punch/grinding.

You know, it just occurred to me that the last two days I barely had the third buckle tight. Before that I had no complaints about the front of the boot. This may be a 'duh' moment. The lateral fit at the ankles is real, though.

 

[Aquila]

I have three additional tubes of OMfit in my right zipfit liner, haha (one additional tube in my left). Those things can take a lot of extra omfit material! They're all in the heel pockets i think, maybe the ankle, not sure where exactly my fitter put them. The extra OMfit made me waaay happier.

 

[Noodler]

I have three additional tubes of OMfit in my right zipfit liner, haha (one additional tube in my left). Those things can take a lot of extra omfit material! They're all in the heel pockets i think, maybe the ankle, not sure where exactly my fitter put them. The extra OMfit made me waaay happier.

Weigh each of your liners and report back.

 

[Aquila]

Weigh each of your liners and report back.

On it!

How much OMfit by weight is in a tube? The difference is clear but still surprisingly minimal. I assume I had my notes correct about how much OMfit I had... (Two different appointments, the first was for two tubes in the right liner, second was one tube in each liner, at least according to my memory/notes)

EDIT: mixing up left/right

 

[Triplet]

On it!
View attachment 158597 View attachment 158598


How much OMfit by weight is in a tube? The difference is clear but still surprisingly minimal. I assume I had my notes correct about how much OMfit I had... (Two different appointments, the first was for two tubes in the left liner, second was one tube in each liner, at least according to my memory/notes)

A tube has about 15gr of omfit.

 

[Aquila]

A tube has about 15gr of omfit.

Thanks! How curious then. Wonder what happened to my liners or to my memory? Possibly I only have two extra tubes in the right liner (and one in the left), I could have sworn it was three but the weight differences indicate otherwise.

As an aside, I realised that I weighed the liners with the footbeds still inside, which I probably shouldn't have. I took the footbeds out and the weight difference between the liners is still roughly the same, only about one gram less.

 

[Noodler]

On it!
View attachment 158597 View attachment 158598


How much OMfit by weight is in a tube? The difference is clear but still surprisingly minimal. I assume I had my notes correct about how much OMfit I had... (Two different appointments, the first was for two tubes in the right liner, second was one tube in each liner, at least according to my memory/notes)

EDIT: mixing up left/right

This is why I requested that you weigh the liners. I have in my notes that a tube of OMFit weighs 30g, but I can't recall if that weight includes the tube itself (I will check today).

It's likely that there isn't a large difference in the amount of OMFit used between the right and left liners. I asked because unless you've had a major injury (or are highly asymmetric) you wouldn't expect that much of a volume difference.