"Who Says We Don't?" African-American Ski Club Talks Love of Skiing and Need for Diversity on the Slopes

[Prosper]

I'd like to personally thank everyone for sharing their honest thoughts and participating in this thread. It's difficult, almost impossible to verbalize the sentiments as I read through this. We live in a time whereby the spotlight is on the racial quotient. It's hard for minorities to watch and openly discuss as Whites grapple w/ the concepts for better or worse. The context and shared paradigm is just not developed enough for those conversations to achieve the depth that is needed w/in a public forum. We are in the midst of an extremely slow process that will take generations to solve. Step by step, progress happens... and the hope is that we will get there one day.

Very eloquently said. Thank you!

 

[JShort]

Last year REI's film series had a 10 min video on the NBS. They released it in Feb, 2019 (also black history month).
if you missed it. see below.
I thought it was really good, much more interesting than typical ski movies which start to be all the same after you've seen a dozen or so.

It still astounds me still that the national guard was brought in for the first NBS convention.

 

[jt10000]

Absolutely correct. We have come a long way in the last 3 or 4 generations but we still have a long way to go. But I'm hopeful that this could be a thing of the past in just a few more generations.

Adding that a big part of the issue - at least for me - is not treatment on the mountain by mountain staff, but in travel etc to/from places to ski, esp in places where black people are rare. I love Vermont. People are nice to me in Vermont. I don't drive very fast, but two of three times in my life I've been pulled over for speeding were in Vermont (and not Route 100) even though it's only a small portion of my driving. The police were nice enough but I can't help but wonder. I used to travel a lot for bike racing with a white friend, and he said to me one day "I never get pulled over this much except when you're in the car." I've had police come up to me while I was just sitting in my car in public (park-and-ride) parking lots. Followed by police driving in small towns.

I think ski/tourism industries can and should push for other institutions in their communities to check for racial and other biases (even unconscious) and work on them. And so if you care about diversity and inclusion on the mountain, think about what you can do in society as a whole.

I'll add that I find statements such as "snow doesn't know what color you are" or "money doesn't know what color you are" annoying because skiing doesn't happen in a vacuum - there is travel and spending and learning that do involve other people and institutions.

There is one ski center (nordic) where a person on ski patrol talked to me in a way I thought was kinda racist, but everyone else there on staff, on patrol, etc plus other skiers were so fair and nice that I kept coming back to the place. I actually had a season pass at the time and was not doing anything wrong. I still remember that. If more people had been like that one person, it would have turned me off. But humans are not perfect so I'll take one outlier.

I can't be 100% that it's race-based, but, we're dressed as well as anyone else and we've only lived in relatively wealthy areas, so ... you tell me. We get followed around a lot in specialty realtors where you pick your items and bring to a cashier, even when we repeatedly let staff know we don't need assistance. I've been in these same stores with my white friends, with the same employees, and at the same level of business (often on the same day), and the difference is jarring.

This is my life too, and it's actually a reason I greatly prefer buying stuff online rather than in stores. It's getting better in stores, but particularly as a young man the retail experience in stores was terrible in sooo many places. I don't think white men notice this at all - it's not their experience. And it happens everywhere - not just in places known for a lot of racism.

It's America and this is a very common thing for some of us. Denying this reality, or suggesting it's very rare and that talking about it is divisive really annoys me. And frankly, with social media it's good to talk about it. When I was young I thought it it was about me or that the retail experience has to be about being treated like a likely thief. Maybe I wasn't dressed right. Maybe I looked shifty or acted shifty. And reading an older friend (an elegant, brilliant black professor at MIT who was also a helluva bike racer when younger) talk on Facebook about his experiences was very helpful to me. I appreciate S.H. sharing as a non-black person too. And Nanook for having his eyes open. Thank you.

I don't think white women get treated as likely criminals much, but the "bro"-oriented bad service (ignored, talked down to, not listened to) many women get in a lot of sporting goods places is related though not the same as racism.

In cycling, there used to be and continues to be a lot of shaming for shopping online, with "Support your LBS!!!" and I think "Why? So many were not nice to me"

I do support the ones that are good to me and steer people to them. And in skiing, shout out to the West Hill Shop in Putney VT and Ski Barn in Wayne NJ!!!!

 

[jt10000]

And about staring: it happens but it's not always bad. Or at least staring is bad, but being noticed isn't always bad.

In college my ski team went to a race at a school in Maine, and the day before the race we got out of our van near the green at the center of that school's campus. A classmate of mine from high school spotted me from quite far way and came running over. She hadn't actually recognized me at first -- too far away -- but saw a Black guy and since there were so few Black people around she was curious who it was!!! That was hilarious.

I certainly acknowledge Black people in places where there are almost no Black people with a nod or a smile.

I do remember one statement that came with a smile but was kind of weird - I was getting off a bus in northern New Hampshire or Vermont years and years ago (part of some complicated travel with my ski team) and a white guy at the depot looks at me and says "You aren't from around here." I'm not saying he was a bad person or there was any bad intention, but there is a stress associated with being different that is amplified with that kind of recognition.

And the "no outsiders" vibe some people in ski towns (particularly out west) are supposed to have is off-putting: no way I could look like a local. That's not racist in origin - they're against all outsiders taking their powder, right? But the effect may be felt differently depending on race. So it's a thing.

As is police following us around. Maybe a particular officer would like to follow all outsiders (so not racist in intent) but with a non-white person they might know we are an outsider for sure - so we get it more. Racist in impact. Not good.

I lived in China for a couple years in the 1980s and got it all the time there. Normal and understandable - and also not connected to historic oppression of people who look like me. It's more annoying in my own country.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@jt10000, thanks for talking about this. I'm white and I need to hear these stories. It enriches my understanding.

 

[ADKmel]

So sad reading some of these posts. I'm white but fortunate to have many friends of all races, creeds, cultural back grounds along with friends with different partners/life choices. I was raised to never judge a book by the cover and to Never look down on anyone unless you are helping them up.

@jt10000 I have been out with my black friends and I have felt the ugly stares because we were arm and arm, we were followed and yes we were treated differently. I had a stupid now EX friend not shake my black friends hand- that was so embarrassing for me. And holy moly the stupid comments and stares because OMG- she kissed and hugged the black man or I was having too much fun with him/her. It really is a horrible feeling. I can not imagine what it is like to live in a racist bigoted world and have to put up with the stupidity of racism. When I was health care guardian for my 90+ Black friend the nursing home she was in, some treated me like crap- it was both the black nurses and white nurses always questioning " how can a white lady be guardian for a black lady'!! WTH? While I have put up with discrimination as a white girl looking for college loans and Small business admin loans refused because I wasn't a minority and I have been refused jobs and apartments in San Francisco back in the 80's because I wasn't gay. I Know I still have it way better than any minority because I am white, I am very cognizant of it. More white people should be more aware, IMO- I know I have never been put thru what many of color or other minorities have to put up with on a daily basis. I can not imagine having that challenge on a daily basis! Just horrible and I apologize to all of you of different race or minority for the stupidity of the Wasichu's -Wasichu is a Lakota word, meaning taker for the fat or greedy one. Our society today still exploits riches and power, teaching our children that success in life all hinges on money and not spirit or humankind. Hopefully with conversations like this it will change.

It is disturbing to me that now in 2021 people can't be kind, can't see beyond a color, an accent/dialect, a style of dress or who they happen to be arm and arm with, it's really sad some people are so stupid and is horrible how cruel humans can be.

In the end of the day we are ALL Related! I will always come to the defense and I have shamed some shop clerks and strangers that I witnessed being rude to minorities; people from somewhere else or anyone 'not like them'. I am not afraid to mouth off to a stupid person to defend the underdog. I would have a fit if I was waited on in a shop before someone that was a minority was there first! That really irks me -reading it is why I chimed in on this.

I think if more people stood up for and spoke up and called the rude racist bigoted offenders out on their bad behavior and made mention of how horrible the offender is behaving maybe the tide would turn? To me you are either a good person or bad person there are no colors. Peace to you all.

 

[justaute]

My 2 cents.

Candidly, as a brown/yellow person (Asian American), I have not personally experienced much direct/tacit/insinuated racial comments -- it's likely because of my build at 6'1", 210 lbs, and with a muscular frame, and also, perhaps, Asian Americans are considered by many as "model minorities". That said, my sisters who are half Asian Americans and other Asian American friends have experienced many racial-based comments and epithets. One of my Asian American friends whose high-school aged son, a competitive skier, was born and raised in the States was told to "go back to your country"; this was in Park City, UT. I have other black/white/brown inter-racial friends who also experienced racial-based issues from their "own" people/families.

The prevailing racial environment is indeed sad. Having grown up in Utah, I never really paid much attention to racial issues during my youth and adolescent years. I was athletic and played high school sports, and even became a collegiate athlete. For additional context, I've been called a "banana" or "twinkies" because certain Asians think I'm "yellow on the outside and white on the inside". In college, because of my athletic background and having played a lot of pick-up basketball with mostly other collegiate athletes who were Black Americans, I was also labeled "pencil" -- yellow on the outside and black on the inside. I had a 35" vertical jump.

Like many of you, my network of friends has many ethnic/cultural/creed/religious/etc backgrounds. Not sure when we, as a society, will ever just treat each other as human-beings. Quite frankly, I'm not sanguine about the future of our species. Having traveled around the world a bit and lived in different parts of the States, I've seen racist/bigoted behaviors perpetrated by many who have different skin colors and ethnicities. It's too bad their views are so parochial.

 

[markojp]

I was about 11 ( 1970's) skiing at Schuss Mtn in MI. There was a group of African Amercan skiers on the hill that day that endured some awful verbal abuse in the lift lines. That experience seared my soul... it was profoundly wrong, and I didn't find the courage to stand up to the white male adults dishing it out. I can only pay things forward to any and all who share the joy of sliding around on snow. The sport very much needs to reflect the demographic reality of the country. It's a strength, a national, cultural resource, and most certainly not a weakness.

 

[jt10000]

Travel Weekly magazine: "Ski industry clientele got younger, more diverse during Covid"

via @SkiEssentials

 

[Tricia]

Since we have regular get togethers with members of this site that has the visual of a melting pot, it makes me wonder if meeting people on line, often without knowing anything about the person's ethnicity creates a little more of an even playing field in an environment that deliberately avoids politics and hot topics.

Example: If @justaute hadn't said he was Asian/American, I'd never know until we met face to face and by then we've developed a bond on line.
I had no idea @textrovert was Indian until I met him in person. (and countless other ethnicities when I met people face to face after nurturing a friendship on line)

I sincerely take pride in the fact that this site has nurtured a diverse group of people who frequently get together and enjoy skiing, biking, hiking and other activities that we all talk about here.

 

[locknload]

It still astounds me still that the national guard was brought in for the first NBS convention.

This video is very moving and amazing. To me, skiing is about a celebration of the beauty of the mountains, speed, grace, learning how to channel gravity and, most importantly, the joy of sharing it with other people who all love it too. The fact that it has become so ridiculously expensive has created barriers to entry that, inevitably, fall along demographic and economic lines. Not to mention, ski areas are in more rural parts of our country in the mountains that can have attitudes that are less welcoming to PoC. We all need to work to bring down those barriers and make the joy of skiing accessible...particularly to kids...through programs like this. I lived in DC for many years and my kids went to an elementary school in the City. The school's ski club provided literally the only opportunity that some of the kids ever had to experience the job of sliding on snow with boards strapped to their feet. Their smiles were a mile wide..it was so cool.

 

[locknload]

I was about 11 ( 1970's) skiing at Schuss Mtn in MI. There was a group of African Amercan skiers on the hill that day that endured some awful verbal abuse in the lift lines. That experience seared my soul... it was profoundly wrong, and I didn't find the courage to stand up to the white male adults dishing it out. I can only pay things forward to any and all who share the joy of sliding around on snow. The sport very much needs to reflect the demographic reality of the country. It's a strength, a national, cultural resource, and most certainly not a weakness.

I too have memories of times that I didn't find the courage to stand up to push back against things I saw and experienced when I was younger as well relative to people treating people in racist ways. It takes time sometimes to learn to find your voice and put conviction behind it. That shame becomes a great motivator to ensure the you'll do better next time. I grew up kind of sheltered and was shocked even to hear people talking in ways that were new to me. The goal is to do better each day, each year and learn from those past experiences to just be a better person who is working to make our world a more equitable and fair-minded place.