Why am I feeling guilty?

[martyg]

You teach, coach for the love of it.

So what you are saying, is that it is a hobby for the independently wealthy?

It must be, because if income does not match the cost of living in a mtn town how do you manage it? Live in your car like many service industry workers do? Is that sustainable?

 

[markojp]

It would be nice if instructors could operate as 1099s...but the resort would never allow it overtly. Same reason at the golf )

Yep.. . I was pretty clear this was about an ideal. 'Merika' likes her monopolies.

 

[justplanesteve]

recruited me to teach a just turned 4 year old for a hour lesson on Sunday and Monday. Caleb was a champ and he paid me with a half dozen homemade chocolate chip cookies.

So far, the tip that meant the most to me this year was a full package of their favorite cookies, after several lessons with a pair of pre-teen sisters.

 

[RoninSkier]

So what you are saying, is that it is a hobby for the independently wealthy?

It must be, because if income does not match the cost of living in a mtn town how do you manage it? Live in your car like many service industry workers do? Is that sustainable?

I guess I am not expressing myself well. Full time instruction / coaching esp as you come up through the profession is a very tough job. I tip my hat to the good instructors who persist and succeed as full time professionals.

I know first hand how hard it can be. I took a break from university, did a full season in the 70s at Whistler before there was Blackcomb, before it became way too expensive. Still had to work double in a restaurant/bar to live. Went back to school.

Did an extended ski trip to Chambrey France in the 80s, the ski instructors there seemed to be treated better, don't know if its changed.

Good instructors / coaches need to be valued, those who show potential as future master instructors must be supported, given a living wage esp at the ritzy ski hills. Or we need to change the 'business' model or have optional models so that the profession can be sustained and teaching quality (focused on results/performance) & accessibility can be kept high.

I think the ski industry must accept that ski teaching is a necessary and valuable service cost center. Not a profit center. It helps bring in business to the hill, contributes to safety, enjoyment and business sustainability.

 

[mister moose]

Cheryl Wheeler does a good job explaining it.

 

[Ken_R]

So what you are saying, is that it is a hobby for the independently wealthy?

It must be, because if income does not match the cost of living in a mtn town how do you manage it? Live in your car like many service industry workers do? Is that sustainable?

Its been very well established that Ski Instruction as a profession in a resort in the USA is not sustainable for the instructor. At all. You are just helping the resort make a lot of money with your time. What they pay does not even cover the costs of you being there, your qualifications and using your gear. If you have free time and money then its ok and I guess there are worse things to spend your time on.

 

[locknload]

Cheryl Wheeler does a good job explaining it.

This is genius. Thx for sharing..laughed out loud. So many things we feel we "should" be doing all the time..instead of just "being" who we are. Its part of the human condition.

 

[JCF]

T

Cranky aside. Not picking on you specifically but I see this kind of comment semi-regularly and… what’s the point other than to humblebrag about your wealth? This forum skews well above average income, but lot of people are not as well off. I don’t really see how it’s constructive. If ski instruction is an uncomfortable expense for someone, then comparing it to an even more niche hobby that’s wildly more expensive is hardly a useful reality check.

I guess I should have said “over cranky” ? If we started policing every un constructive comment there would be a whole lot less posts on this site.

Wow. Talking about over sensitive.

Never said I was offended. What I said was it wasn’t a constructive comment.

I grew up in the hunter/jumper world with friends with people who dropped $100k on a horse as if it was a tip at the coffee shop. I’m no stranger to wealth and don’t begrudge you spending yours.

Lol. Where I do get pissed off is the idea that everyone who isn’t rich isn’t working hard enough or made stupid decisions.

You’re being over sensitive here, or is it cranky ? Who made that inference at the end ? I was referring to myself, and without noting that I spent more than half my life as an artist, so I also know something about working hard for alternative compensations….lol

But to return to the topic…
It really is hard to understand the strategy of pricing out future skiers with both ticket prices and the lessons to make them want to pursue the sport - leaving aside the cost of equipment - and at the same time reduce the pool of instructors by not paying them. Seems these places have lost all contact with the spirit of the pursuit.
And I think of the paradise where I learned to ski - one of those little operations that relied on the mothers (who also knitted our mittens) and fathers to patrol and teach the next gen…

 

[François Pugh]

LOL, some folk are too sensitive. I can remember splurging what to me was an exorbitant amount of money to ride a motorcycle on a race track. I can't afford a decent Porsche, let alone track it. That doesn't prevent me from appreciating and finding some humor in the comment about the cost of tracking a Porsche, and I don't begrudge whomever wants to bemoan how expensive it is.

 

[dovski]

Wow. Talking about over sensitive.


Never said I was offended. What I said was it wasn’t a constructive comment. Like it or not, I’m willing to bet that the skiing public outnumbers people that track Porsches by at least an order of magnitude. So “if you think that’s expensive try being more rich” isn’t helpful. Especially in the context of the OP.

I grew up in the hunter/jumper world with friends with people who dropped $100k on a horse as if it was a tip at the coffee shop. I’m no stranger to wealth and don’t begrudge you spending yours.


Lol. Where I do get pissed off is the idea that everyone who isn’t rich isn’t working hard enough or made stupid decisions. Sure, I could have taken my name brand physics degrees (no debt) to Wall Street. Some of my college buddies did. I choose to do something that benefits for the world. And I’m very good at my job. Work 6 days a week and prep the 7th.

And where I get pissed off is where someone who does not you or what you do implies that their contribution to society is better than yours without providing any details. Why are we making this personal and attacking people we do not even know?

Seriously guys this is a stupid argument. We all work hard, if we didn’t we could not afford to ski. So let’s stop wealth shaming or cutting each other down when we all agree that skiing has become an expensive sport, hills over charge for lessons (not all but most) and ski instructors are more or less indentured servants.

Can we revert back to respecting each other and discussing an issue impacting a sport we all love. Remember we are the lucky ones we get to ski, most people don’t.

 

[JCF]

This ^
I hope that we can all appreciate that our worth is not based solely on what we have or how hard we work. There are a lot of people who work hard and have less, and some who have won the lottery. Most of us do what we have to do to make a life for ourselves and our families. I think what matters is that we are comfortable with the choices we make and do not become bitter because the rewards are not always just.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for those that forego the well worn paths to riches for something more meaningful, or those that choose to spend that their time and money becoming a ski instructor, or those who sacrifice years of their lives, and sometimes life itself, to serve in the military.
At the same time I can celebrate those who are honestly successful in their chosen fields and feel elevated by their ability to race Porsches or take lessons at Vail ( I can do neither - HUGE difference doing DE's and racing; and I have a friend who is an instructor at Vail and can not justify it, as much as it might help)

It would be lovely if corporations could have the same perspective on skiing as the that little ski slope I grew up on, but that is just not how things are and I have no idea how to change that. But Zircon, my offer still stands, should we ever cross paths.

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

Ken, the liability amounts necessary for independent operators is not cheap for either resort employed instructors, nor concession operators. I can't disclose numbers, but yes, I've seen the contracts... add L&I, etc.... and the picture gets more complicated.

It would be nice though, in my perfect world where L3's could operate as independents, perhaps PSIA could offer or partner with an insurance pool provider.

PSIA RM used to have a ~supplemental type of issurance you could purchase from a 3rd party partner that covered a variety of things for instructors. I think the price was $125 about 5-6 years ago, IIRC.

 

[markojp]

PSIA RM used to have a ~supplemental type of issurance you could purchase from a 3rd party partner that covered a variety of things for instructors. I think the price was $125 about 5-6 years ago, IIRC.

The coverage for an LLC is higher as far I know. As an independent business (you'll need a UBI #), its not as simple as buying some suplimental insurance beyond what the area and you pay into L&I, accidental death coverage, etc...