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Why Cant Your Ski Boots

coupdevill

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My partner in Cantology just posted a video on YouTube about canting your boots, the audience is everyone, but I think that enthusiasts will be happy with the presentation, I suspect that the expert and pro will find it useful but closer to a 101 course if you will. MOD aka Phil, feel free to move this if you like.



SEAN VILL aka. coupdevill
 

Will Hansen

Cants Я Me
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Hi folks,
Our Covid-induced hunkerdown allowed us to finally have time to spin up on YouTube. We just posted our first video, sort of a “Ted Talk with visual aids” titled “Why can’t your ski boots?”. We have a pipeline full of new videos so please do subscribe if you like. And we look forward to related discussions here and in the video comments.

Stay safe,
-Will, Sean, and Jason
Cantology LLC

 

mikes781

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I had a proper boot fitting done in late August. After getting me in the right size boots and footbeds he spent a lot of time evaluating my stance. I had assumed that I didn’t have any issues there, but when he put me on the board in my boots and asked me to roll inside and out it was an eye opener. There was a fair amount of difference in what it took to get on my inside and outside edges from leg to leg. There was an obvious lag in certain directions. More time was spent shimming each boot to correct this. When he was done it was a night and day difference with both boots moving together and no lag. Cant wait to try them on the snow to see what kind of difference they will make.
 

Scrundy

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Good thread, had a problem with one ski’s wobbly on run outs. Cant took care of it, was outside edge heavy. Mikes781 gave a good rule of thumb, boot up and step into skis. Go edge to edge on a flat surface in your natural stance. You will know if something is not right.
 

Average Joe

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Cant first without cuff adjustments...... at your own peril.
Balance is often achieved in unexpected ways.
 

Will Hansen

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One way you can literally get a feel for whether you have a stance problem is to stand barefoot in your neutral ski stance on cold bathroom tile or cold concrete (garage floor). You’ll feel the cold first where the most pressure is.
 

LiquidFeet

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Or... find one of these Dr. Scholl's machines in a pharmacy.
Dr. Scholl's Custom Fit Orthotics - Review by Seattle Podiatrist

Stand on it barefooted and take photos of the monitor showing the pressure distribution. This is a generic image. I have my pics somewhere but can't find them. What I found was quite illuminating. You can do it with your footbeds too.
1603551195390.png
 

Noodler

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Since this thread has the potential to become a "reference" for all things about canting, let's talk about what we're really trying to accomplish with lateral canting. There is a lot of confusion about what we need the canting to do and I don't think the video from the Cantology folks makes it clear.

Good skiing is primarily about having good balance. So when your boots are canted, that should be done in order to improve your balance. Canting is not about creating a flat ski on the snow by accomodating any stance deficiencies. We cant to move our center of knee mass to be aligned over the 2nd metatarsal ray of the foot. The assumption is that this alignment will improve the ability to balance on one leg, however this should always be validated through simple balance stress testing. We don't cant to change the ski position in relation to the snow, we cant to change the knee position over the ski.
 

Philpug

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I do a good amount of contract work for a shop that does not have the proper tools.

Cantology shims:
7BF93C35-6DEF-4CB1-98D9-F36759911435_1_201_a.jpeg


Station where I do the measuring along with plumb bob and shims for measuring.
50B6FC9B-A325-4E6B-8542-CE1A84CEE2C0_1_201_a.jpeg


For solid sole boots, I will plane the soles with a jointer:
12F48F35-B471-49D2-AB8B-F1D1433B3115.jpeg


A routing table with SVST blocks to rout the proper toe and heel height to make them DIN standard
3C176D2B-E398-4BEA-89C7-A57995F127DC.jpeg


Custom bracket used to resole
77BA2A1C-61D6-4EB7-84C8-45233B8B46AE_1_201_a.jpeg


K2 Recon Pro that is is Cantology compitable:
41D22FB8-B6D1-4D5D-A23C-99AE516ACB72_1_201_a.jpeg


019CA6CD-4B87-41E4-8FB0-C424FE56E30B_1_201_a.jpeg


Before trimming:
73100987-34BA-411B-8929-0E9F4A3F9C67_1_201_a.jpeg


I would have preferred to have a lighter colored boot so show the final work.

@Tricia's old boot that was canted (left boot) and leg length (right boot) with GripWalk soles
17CC0675-D971-46A5-B6AC-A5AD85C286C1.jpeg


Note with canting with GripWalk. Gripwalk soles must be removed BEFORE Routing of lugs. Routing MUST be done with the DIN sole on boot, then the GripWalk reinstalled.
 

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Philpug

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Not all boots are conducive to canting. Here are two Nordica's, the top one can accomidate a Cantology shim. The bottom one, because of an aesthetic contoured design cannot.
Screen Shot 2020-10-24 at 9.51.11 AM.png

As a bootfitter, this is something I am sensitive early in the fit process, that if I am dealing with a customer that might need alignment, I make sure I am dealing with a boot that I can do the work with.

The only boot that I am aware of with a contoured sole that can accomidate canting is Atomic but they have a proprietary canting shims. I will let @onenerdykid talk more about that.

I don't understand why all brands that have replaceable soles, do not have a straightforward flat sole.
 

crgildart

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Why can't your ski boots ...

Out with it, why what????

;)

I'm glad you did this for me. I had been cooking up smart assed replies but not hitting submit since the minute this thread hit my new posts feed.
 

Will Hansen

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Noodler,
Bootfitters are of (at least) two schools of thought: fill the gap (to flatten the ski) or move the knee (to center it over the ski). Sort of our own little religious war. But different sides of the same coin. Adding a cant tips the boot (and ski) when standing on a soft surface. But when standing in canted boot on a hard surface, the knee moves. Which is the correct view? I believe we’re all talking about the same thing, just from different perspectives. The fact we all should agree on is that cants help some people ski (much) better. And we should agree that the shin alligns with the center of the tongue.

From the video you can see that I’m a fill-the-gap guy. I think it’s an easier concept to get your head around and it certainly pertains directly to standing on snow (as opposed to talking about where your knee is when standing in a ski shop).

Skiers have been canting their equipment for 50 years and this little disagreement still exists. I’d say it doesn’t matter, except that the industry’s inability to consistently explain how cants work has retarded the acceptance of cants by the skiing community. IMO
-Will
 

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