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Why Suggest FIS Skis?

dbostedo

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So then this....

RACETIGER SL R WC FIS W/ PLATE 2024​


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But really, I've never been on an FIS ski myself... I have Stockli Laser SCs and Blossom AM77s as my skinny and wide carving skis. I think I'd probably like to get a Laser SL (though haven't tried that either, though I have been on the CX and AX) ... so my opinion probably isn't valid. :D
 

ski otter 2

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Yes, using the race car logic, in advance, I'd maybe have moved towards a near race slalom, or even a short all mountain.
Just on this last Saturday demo day, the latest Stockli Laser SL 165 was so smooth, a dream to ski.
Along with lots of others being almost as good.

But my experience is that the FIS SL works better, from fast to more easy-going, for folks used to it.
It's just more dialed in for both uses, and in between, so much prototyping.
It gives anyone who wants to do short turns or medium turns
on piste an easier time, good for both some racers and ex-racer old guys.
(But for back seat, freestyle or upright skiers of more recent vintage, maybe not as much - some adjustment required.)

A Ferrari or car comparison breaks down here, seems like, to me. This thing doesn't have high maintenance parts, a souped up engine,
hyped up gears or expensive tires that wear out quickly. It's a ski, after all, no motor, carving snow.
 

hrstrat57

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One's mindset has a lot to do with it.

What changed my point of view, particularly about the FIS SL, is watching closely my older coach/ex-racer friends
who chose the FIS SL even after they had quit coaching, let alone racing. Many have real health difficulties, and
have become limited in what terrain they can ski, and under what snow conditions. Some are visibly shaky, at times,
after operations and treatments - many limiting health conditions. Some have to stay on easier slopes.
Some even have to avoid powder days now, too hard for them.
Yet they were/are still choosing the FIS SL as their main ski. With short and medium sized turns. Why?

I'd maybe assumed this was partly nostalgia. But for me this was of almost immediate interest, because
I was/am only a decade or so behind them in age, if that. I wanted to prepare for where I was heading - to keep skiing.

So then I talked to, and really listened to, a bunch of these old coaches/ex-coaches: It was eye-opening, in my case.
(And over the years since then, I've found out these guys were 100% on the money, from my own experiences on the SL FIS ski.)

They said that an FIS SL ski is not a one trick pony, particularly when not tuned to just race ski bevels;
one does not have to ski them way laid over, nor use them just to work up a sweat, recreationally.
This ski is designed to make turning easy. One can easily hold a carve without worrying about
an edge failure on the snow or a fall - really important for an older skier with problems physically.
You can trust the ski to do its work well at almost any speed, making your job easier. And if you are used to the ski,
it's like riding a bike. With a right tune it is a very restful and safe ride, no failures, very forgiving when you relax and feel it,
feel the ski handling the carve and the smoothing out of the terrain - doing work for you.

As one near ninety year old skier told me, at his age, skiing was easier than walking, and the SL FIS was easier to turn/carve
than any other type of ski, for some folks who are used to it (and tune it appropriately).

Bottom line: For someone with any race or some technical skiing background, the FIS SL ski has distinctly different modes
that work incredibly, not just that racer laid over, high speed style. This ski is incredibly versatile: it is very good and easy on piste,
and in many off piste and soft snow conditions, at nearly any speed: just a "do it all, almost" sort of ski for someone really used to
skiing it sort of well, by whatever method.
My Tigers tuned 1 base 3 side described above are the easiest turning ski I’ve ever been on.

When I say a “good” skier will likely have their mind blown by a properly dialed in FIS SL I’m talking someone that can stay forward, balance equally on either foot and has properly fitted ski boots.

Tail gunners need to do some repairs to their skiing first.

Also I honestly don’t know why FIS GS race skis are part of the discussion. My FIS SL boards can run 30 mph all day(especially the Dobermanns)

They’re a blast.

Carry on
 

BC.

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baby-yes-meme-92127r3fjhaew80u.gif


But really, I've never been on an FIS ski myself... I have Stockli Laser SCs and Blossom AM77s as my skinny and wide carving skis. I think I'd probably like to get a Laser SL (though haven't tried that either, though I have been on the CX and AX) ... so my opinion probably isn't valid. :D
Kind of my point is that.....for all the talk of how everyone should be on an FIS SL ski, I rarely ever see anyone give actual "real" examples of them. It's usually, "just get an FIS SL ski".....well, for most people who possibly visit the site and lurk through the threads........what exactly are the models/brands people should be looking for? I chose some models from Volkl because I am most familiar with Volkl and have skied lots of their different offerings over the years.

If a thread is to be informative, the "FIS SL guys" here on the site should make a "wish list" of the brands/models that people should consider when looking to purchase an FIS SL ski. This would help people to choose the type/model/brand of ski that the "experts" recommend. People like lists....especially if they come from ex-racers/professionals.
 

Ogg

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Kind of my point is that.....for all the talk of how everyone should be on an FIS SL ski, I rarely ever see anyone give actual "real" examples of them. It's usually, "just get an FIS SL ski".....well, for most people who possibly visit the site and lurk through the threads........what exactly are the models/brands people should be looking for? I chose some models from Volkl because I am most familiar with Volkl and have skied lots of their different offerings over the years.

If a thread is to be informative, the "FIS SL guys" here on the site should make a "wish list" of the brands/models that people should consider when looking to purchase an FIS SL ski. This would help people to choose the type/model/brand of ski that the "experts" recommend. People like lists....especially if they come from ex-racers/professionals.
I thought the general consensus was that FIS SLs are all similar enough that it doesn't really matter for most people and you should go for the best deal. :huh:
 

hrstrat57

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Volkl Racetiger SL is a great choice. My understanding is from 2006 to 2023 the ski is basically unchanged except for graphics and the newer models have the goofy bubble on the front. In other words you don’t have to spend $1500. As long as the ski has edge left and isn’t flexed out you’re good. Learning how to DIY the setup on the piston plate is a big part of the fun. Changing binding position, shimming it can all change how the skis perform sometimes dramatically.

If you have to have new bindings(not the worst idea) a new pair of xComp Race will fit on old piston plates. (The x cell has a 2 piece toe mount which requires an additional hole)

So if you’re not a “I have to have the latest graphics” person the fun can start cheap.

If you don’t like fiddling maybe near race SL with a system binding is for you. Not as readily accessible used tho so open the wallet likely.
 

dbostedo

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I thought the general consensus was that FIS SLs are all similar enough that it doesn't really matter for most people and you should go for the best deal. :huh:
I think this is true from what I've gathered. Though several folks have chimed in with what they have (particularly the Atomic cult that @KingGrump has formed).

Hit me up at Taos and I'll set you up on a pair. :beercheer:
Yeah, that could be fun ... but for now lets hope we get snow that makes me want to stay on my bigger skis!
 

BC.

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I thought the general consensus was that FIS SLs are all similar enough that it doesn't really matter for most people and you should go for the best deal. :huh:
Ok, so somebody reading the threads about the positives of FIS SL skis goes into a shop/ or online and says, “just give me an FIS SL ski” and they should be set? Just buy the cheapest one?

Thanks…that should really help people out.
 

KingGrump

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for now lets hope we get snow that makes me want to stay on my bigger skis!

That is definite. I am usually on wider skis during meat of the season too.

particularly the Atomic cult that @KingGrump has formed

We received a notice from EEOC recently regarding our ski color discriminatory practices. This coming season, we shall strive (not the Salomon binding) to be more inclusive when it comes to FIS SL colors. Our collection shall noticeably include SOC (Skis of Other Colors).
 

Neurodrive

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I am about 50% on conversion rate with the FIS SL demo. Half will go out and buy a pair. The other half usually throw the ski at me while screaming "WTF were you thinking?" :ogbiggrin:
I didn’t even get a demo and ended up buying a pair. Haven’t had any snow to ski them yet, so the jury is still out on which half I’ll fall into. Better watch out if I see you at Taos and I’m in the second half.:duck:

I may add some feedback on how they feel for a recreational skier with no racing background once I actually get a chance to use them.
 

silverback

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Ok, so somebody reading the threads about the positives of FIS SL skis goes into a shop/ or online and says, “just give me an FIS SL ski” and they should be set? Just buy the cheapest one?

Thanks…that should really help people out.
Pretty much. The brands do have different feels. BUT, men’s length vs women’s or junior length, and the tune, make a lot of difference.
 

silverback

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Tail gunners need to do some repairs to their skiing first.
Real talk.

This is true for most real carving skis. People need to be careful and honest with their technical self evaluation.

Years ago I swapped skis with a bsl buddy mid-run on a gentle groomer. He was big and strong and did the muscle the tails around move. He was sure his 187 Bonafides just would not carve and that mine were carving automatically and suggested we trade. He clicked into my old 170cm 2009 Head Supershape Speeds (15m radius, forgiving carver). He lasted about 3 turns. Probably lucky he didn’t get injured and that I wasn’t on FIS SLs.
 

François Pugh

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Yes, using the race car logic, in advance, I'd maybe have moved towards a near race slalom, or even a short all mountain.
Just on this last Saturday demo day, the latest Stockli Laser SL 165 was so smooth, a dream to ski.
Along with lots of others being almost as good.

But my experience is that the FIS SL works better, from fast to more easy-going, for folks used to it.
It's just more dialed in for both uses, and in between, so much prototyping.
It gives anyone who wants to do short turns or medium turns
on piste an easier time, good for both some racers and ex-racer old guys.
(But for back seat, freestyle or upright skiers of more recent vintage, maybe not as much - some adjustment required.)

A Ferrari or car comparison breaks down here, seems like, to me. This thing doesn't have high maintenance parts, a souped up engine,
hyped up gears or expensive tires that wear out quickly. It's a ski, after all, no motor, carving snow.
Yup. It's more like a Suzuki GSX-R600 or a Yamaha R6 without a steering damper.
Also similar in the fact that some (clueless folk) think those bikes don't belong on public roads, but should stay on race tracks.
 

ski otter 2

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Yup. It's more like a Suzuki GSX-R600 or a Yamaha R6 without a steering damper.
Also similar in the fact that some (clueless folk) think those bikes don't belong on public roads, but should stay on race tracks.
No idea what those bikes are, but bike comparison seems better than car comparison: such bikes at least have no motors. (?)
 
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ski otter 2

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I understand what you're saying; it mirrors my experiences on FIS SL's as well -- i.e., they don't have to be skied like you're in a course.

That said, I'm not sure I understand the point of having a Ferrari if you're not going to take it out of first gear.

The thing is, a Ferrari is pretty much a one trick pony. As I said, the FIS SL is not. And it rocks in all its different gears or modes.
 

François Pugh

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No idea what those bikes are, but bike comparison seems better than car comparison: such bikes at least have no motors.
Sorry about that. They actually do have motors (and very good ones).
I couldn't drum up anything quickly on the GSX-R600, but here's the stats for the R6 and the GSX-R750 (it's just the R600 with an extra 20 lbs and 25 to 30 more HP). It's really about the steering geometry and handling though.
https://motoperf.com/motorcycles/Yamaha-R6-2015-962793/and/Suzuki-GSX-R750-2011-390729
(PS the speed at the top of 6th is optimistic unless you make a few mods).
 

ski otter 2

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Kind of my point is that.....for all the talk of how everyone should be on an FIS SL ski, I rarely ever see anyone give actual "real" examples of them. It's usually, "just get an FIS SL ski".....well, for most people who possibly visit the site and lurk through the threads........what exactly are the models/brands people should be looking for? I chose some models from Volkl because I am most familiar with Volkl and have skied lots of their different offerings over the years.

If a thread is to be informative, the "FIS SL guys" here on the site should make a "wish list" of the brands/models that people should consider when looking to purchase an FIS SL ski. This would help people to choose the type/model/brand of ski that the "experts" recommend. People like lists....especially if they come from ex-racers/professionals.
Dang, apologies but this isn't actually so, mostly. @DocGKR - and myself, and before that others - have gone into demo detail
on our takes with different brand race skis. Doc does it with gate running and freeskiing; I just ski them recreationally, fairly often.
(Maybe 15 to 30 half days per season, in my case lately, just on the GS 188/30s.
I can imagine that these totals will slowly shrink, in the case of the FIS GS, and increase for the FIS SL).

With FIS SL skis (but also some 188/30 W GS versions), I've gone over my takes on favorite brands repeatedly. Enough is enough, for me.
Last season, most recently, we went into brand differences, on this website, as had been done before, at least some.
Look up @DocGKR posts and threads for this stuff, please.

Once you get the hang of whatever FIS SL ski you start with, maybe, and if you find you like this sort of ski, you can delve into
the differences between the brands, to see if they matter to you.

In my case, just as an example, more recently (over a decade ago) I re-started with Volkl race skis, with multiple both SL and GS Volkl
men's (SL) and women's spec (GS & SL) (and also men's masters spec GS) - skis purchased nearly all used, from racers and coaches.

For me, but by no means all folks, going on to other brands in subsequent seasons made a difference, big time, even though all the brands
are in many ways close.

The flexes of the different skis do matter also. In my case, I seemed to get mostly soft or medium soft skis from Volkl, both SL and GS.

Once I got a few other pairs, from Rossi and Dynastar, for instance, I found that for me the differences were actually thrilling.
(Eventually I found I seemed to like medium stiffness skis, in a range from maybe soft medium to stiff medium.
And I liked even softer flexing versions still, but much less.) (All this I've posted before.) I'm not sure if I like the Volkls less
because of the brand or mostly the flex differences; but since Volkls seem to be used more by lower level racers and less by the top,
that may point to why the Volkl versions I could get were on the softer side, and thus less desirable, to me.

Eventually, I found I preferred Atomic and Rossi FIS versions, with Heads also in the picture, of the race skis I have tried.
(Tho I really like a Dynastar Masters non-FIS GS version (185/25).

I was getting race skis handed down from racers of different levels, and one of my pairs of FIS GS 188/30 women's skis
had been one of the pairs issued to top U.S. women racers, I was told, to race women some of whom routinely got 30 to 40
or more pairs of race skis each year, and maybe that many in each discipline. My pair, Atomic W 188/30s, had been rejected
by several women on the U.S. ski team, I was told, and had gone down to good racers on lower but still top levels, to finally
pass to me about two or three years later. That ski pair was probably a stiff medium to medium stiff at least, I was told.

It's the stiffest FIS GS ski I've gotten, and it's been my favorite ever since - even though as I age I ski less well on it yearly.
To me it was thrilling the way it rebounded across the slope (and that I could seemingly handle it some), the way it was unfazed on the steepest
groomer/race slope runs (when I had the courage), and - to my delight - the way it would stivot when it needed to, almost automatically,
almost as if on its own. Just so crazy responsive.

(That was some years ago, I'm afraid. Not sure I could even do that stivot now. Guess I might see this season, again - maybe.
Or maybe not. :) )
 
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