Wide last or high instep boots

[DerKommissar]

My moderately high instep has me stuck in-between the worlds of 100 mm and 102 mm last boots. As I'm relatively new to this, I had two questions...
1) What 100 mm boots are considered best for someone with a high instep?
2) What 102 mm boots are considered to be more performance orientated, with a more snug overall fit?

For specifics, I'm 49, 6"11, 180 lbs, intermediate/advanced, looking for that first boot to help take my skills up a notch. I have a 7.7 cm instep with 10.4 cm wide feet and I've been fitted into a 27.5 mondo boot (longest foot 27.1 cm). I've tried the Atomic Prime and Magna 110s- Prime is super snug all over and unbearable before bootfitting on the instep. I'm not sure I ski enough to break them in/justify the bootfitting it will require (10 to 20 days a year at best). Magna is still snug on instep and forefoot with good heelhold (but I can lift it if I really try hard- prime was like I was in concrete), toe box is roomy, and I do have to crank the buckles tighter to get a good fit. ATM I'm going with the Magna (with a semi-custom insole), but I'm wondering if there are better starting spots as well as what I'm losing by not going with the prime. There's no summer bootfitting or boots to try on in my town in the midwest while the online prices are good, so I'm turning to your expert opinions. Please be kind to a dude who rediscovered skiing a few years ago and would like to get the last 30 years back.

 

[onenerdykid]

Getting your foot happy in a Hawx Prime is relatively easy if the boot fitter is experienced and has the correct tools to do the work. The shell will never become the correct shape for your foot simply by breaking it in- this is where boot fitting tools come into play, whether that means traditional stretching of the shell or heating the shell in a proper Memory Fit oven to shaping the shell to fit your foot. It's much easier and more effective starting with a boot that is slightly on the snug side than going with a boot that will become too roomy later on.

And also - in your size a Hawx Prime is 102mm wide, a Hawx Magna is 104mm wide. Knowing this, a Hawx Prime is almost a sure winner vs. the Magna.

 

[dbostedo]

looking for that first boot to help take my skills up a notch.

There's no summer bootfitting or boots to try on in my town in the midwest while the online prices are good, so I'm turning to your expert opinions.

If by that you mean you're planning to buy online rather than go to a good bootfitter, I'd say these two things are at odds. Paying a bit more in the fall to get the right boot selected and right work done will certainly make it much, much more likely that you'll meet the first statement.

 

[Greg Whitehouse]

I agree on the idea of a good bootfitter being key.
For instance, you say that the magna is still tight on your instep. I think that makes your instep more than “moderately high”. The Magna is quite generous in height. There is a correlation between high insteps and lack of foot/ankle flexion. Often very tall insteps come with high arches. Likely a narrow heel relative to forefoot width as well. If this is your foot you may need a lift under your heel and a stiffer flex than you might guess to get good performance.
I am not saying that this is necessarily your case. I am putting forth that fitters see things that you might not realize are important.
Also please ensure that a quality insole is part of your boot buying plan. Worth their weight in gold.

 

[DerKommissar]

I agree on the idea of a good bootfitter being key.
For instance, you say that the magna is still tight on your instep. I think that makes your instep more than “moderately high”. The Magna is quite generous in height. There is a correlation between high insteps and lack of foot/ankle flexion. Often very tall insteps come with high arches. Likely a narrow heel relative to forefoot width as well. If this is your foot you may need a lift under your heel and a stiffer flex than you might guess to get good performance.
I am not saying that this is necessarily your case. I am putting forth that fitters see things that you might not realize are important.
Also please ensure that a quality insole is part of your boot buying plan. Worth their weight in gold.

Yes, I do have medium high arches. I use the medium profile currex insert in my running shoes and I was expecting to get something similar for boots. I would say that my ankle movement is somewhat limited, but it's really hard to know what normal is given that these are the only ankles I've ever had. The stiffest boots I've skied on were 90 flex Salomon rentals, so I was just taking a logical step up. I know it would be better to start from scratch at a boot fitter, but we only have one shop in town, and it's going to cost a good bit more to do so (plus fitting). I was hoping to get a good boot now, during the end of year sales, and still go in and have them fit it when the season starts. I just was not sure how much the Hawx prime could adapt to a high instep. I feel like I could ski the magna out of the box, but I agree they could get too loose over time. It feels a bit weird to be a dude in the midwest trusting a midwest boot fitter to get the prime to fit me- if they can't or they mess it up, I'd have an unskiable boot. But maybe I just need to trust them and stop worrying about it.

 

[DerKommissar]

Getting your foot happy in a Hawx Prime is relatively easy if the boot fitter is experienced and has the correct tools to do the work. The shell will never become the correct shape for your foot simply by breaking it in- this is where boot fitting tools come into play, whether that means traditional stretching of the shell or heating the shell in a proper Memory Fit oven to shaping the shell to fit your foot. It's much easier and more effective starting with a boot that is slightly on the snug side than going with a boot that will become too roomy later on.

And also - in your size a Hawx Prime is 102mm wide, a Hawx Magna is 104mm wide. Knowing this, a Hawx Prime is almost a sure winner vs. the Magna.

Thanks- I do have one contact for an experienced person in town. He's seen me in the prime and felt we could make it work- he just wanted me to wait until November to do heat molding, and recommended that I try to break them in at home using foam tape in the pressure spots over the summer. But I can't even really get them on with the tape it's so tight. Just wearing them for 20 minutes standing and flexing was all I could take. I wanted to explore my options before I committed. I really appreciate your advice- I know I'm just an average guy getting back into skiing in a non-ski town.

 

[DerKommissar]

If by that you mean you're planning to buy online rather than go to a good bootfitter, I'd say these two things are at odds. Paying a bit more in the fall to get the right boot selected and right work done will certainly make it much, much more likely that you'll meet the first statement.

Limited set of options here in the fall too, but yes, I was trying to save some money. It's an expensive sport to get back into starting from 0. I've been renting for three years or so and getting the rest of my gear together, and now I wanted to make the ski and boot leap this summer. It's not ideal, but I'm never going to get my family to move to Colorado either. I am getting my 8 year old into it so I have another vote in the family for my yearly trip out west.

 

[dbostedo]

I've been renting for three years or so and getting the rest of my gear together, and now I wanted to make the ski and boot leap this summer.

There are a few things to consider with regard to the savings IMO:

1) Boot cost can be amortized over several years. If you have your boots for 5 years, the savings may not be much on a yearly basis compared to other costs of skiing.
2) You're more likely to get a non-optimal boot and want new ones sooner going at it yourself (or do other things to "fix" it, like boot work on new liners), leading to more spending.
3) If you buy boots now, and see a fitter later you will pay for the fitting services, where a lot may be included in the price already if you see a good fitter and buy the boots from them.

 

[Henry]

"the online prices are good"
A bargain that doesn't work for you is no bargain.

The only time to buy boots on line is if you've seen a bootfitter first and they tell you which boot is made for your feet, and they can't supply them. Buy the boots and return to the fitter for adjustments. You want a fitter who examines your feet and offers you one or two makes or models for you. These (hopefully) are the closest off-the-shelf fit for you, then adjustments are made. Rule of thumb--if the boots are comfy in the shop, they're too big. Expect to have tight spots heated and pushed out. Ski boots are an exoskeleton. They need to fit you like a lobster's shell. You want near-zero movement inside the boot with warmth and comfort.

Buy boots in the fall. The stores have their new stock as well as left overs so are more likely to have boots that are just right for you, and they usually offer good pricing to get some cash flow at this slow time of year--summer activities are winding down and winter activities haven't cranked up yet. Or, buy boots at the destination at the beginning of a long ski trip. Expect to return to the shop a couple of times for adjustments as you ski them and find the trouble spots. If you get the adjustments made in a different shop than where you bought them expect to pay a reasonable charge for the fitter's time and expertise.

There are a couple of ways to accomodate a high instep. The plastic shell over the instep can be heated and pressed out for more room. Or the boot board (the sole piece inside the shell) can be removed and a millimeter or two shaved off it to lower your foot inside the shell. A good fitter will see which method, or both, best works for your feet and those boots.

 

[princo]

I have a bulky instep (struggle finding loafer-styled shoes). Cabrio boots like the former Full Tilt Descendant and the Dalbello Panterra can accommodate my foot without any major issues (you get of lot of control over the lower part of the tongue) So check that that style of boot as well.

 

[Yo Momma]

Super High Instep + Wide foot = My Mantra. I suffered for many years and bought boots WAAAAY too big, until I found a "Masterfit Bootfitter". Problem solved. He jacked me down from a 29.5 to 27.5 boot that I can wear ALL DAY LONG...... I call them "Lunch Boots" - You can wear them through lunch w/o unbuckling... but still super tight and responsive. He put me in, essentially a ski coach boot. Tight when you need them, comfort when you're standing around.

Of late, earlier this year I tried on tons but found one boot that fit me out of the box for B/C and that was the Dalbello Lupo AX 120. Dalbello makes two types. I wanted the heavier plastic not the super light plastic shells as I have another set of Grilamid ultra light B/C boots and chunks of that plastic were flaking off like sprinkles on ice cream at the slightest sign of intense use. I tried on the wide last F/T's (FullTilt) which are similar in style but KILLED my feet. Important point is that I require the cuff alignment adjustment feature in all my boots as my lower shins bow outward. I learned that point from my Masterfit bootfitter. Lupo AX, yes on that! I still had to have a metatarsal punch on both feet at the shop (no pro Masterfit bootfitter at this particular shop but the guy knew his basics) and then heat the shells, not the liners in the oven at home. Dalbello was thoughtful enough to trust their more experienced clients and post easy to find & follow heating instructions online. Much Respect on that!

Skied them to perfection. No laborious and painful break-in required. Get skiskootys and use them...... PERIOD....... Your boots are TOAST if your soles wear out. Good luck finding new soles yrs later! I had to order my last set of Alpine soles from Lockwoods Ski in England..... For my boot I bought ALL of them they had left!!! LMAO

If this is your first REAL boot rodeo... look for a Masterfit bootfitter w/in 300 miles. Believe me it's TOTALLY worth the drive and consider this a long term investment as it has saved me serious $$$$ over the last 13 yrs. Most importantly, let your Masterfit bootfitter tell you which brands have the appropriate shell for your foot, after they analyze your particular foot!

 

[cem]

Super High Instep + Wide foot = My Mantra. I suffered for many years and bought boots WAAAAY too big, until I found a "Masterfit Bootfitter". Problem solved. He jacked me down from a 29.5 to 27.5 boot that I can wear ALL DAY LONG...... I call them "Lunch Boots" - You can wear them through lunch w/o unbuckling... but still super tight and responsive. He put me in, essentially a ski coach boot. Tight when you need them, comfort when you're standing around.

Of late, earlier this year I tried on tons but found one boot that fit me out of the box for B/C and that was the Dalbello Lupo AX 120. Dalbello makes two types. I wanted the heavier plastic not the super light plastic shells as I have another set of Grilamid ultra light B/C boots and chunks of that plastic were flaking off like sprinkles on ice cream at the slightest sign of intense use. I tried on the wide last F/T's (FullTilt) which are similar in style but KILLED my feet. Important point is that I require the cuff alignment adjustment feature in all my boots as my lower shins bow outward. I learned that point from my Masterfit bootfitter. Lupo AX, yes on that! I still had to have a metatarsal punch on both feet at the shop (no pro Masterfit bootfitter at this particular shop but the guy knew his basics) and then heat the shells, not the liners in the oven at home. Dalbello was thoughtful enough to trust their more experienced clients and post easy to find & follow heating instructions online. Much Respect on that!

Skied them to perfection. No laborious and painful break-in required. Get skiskootys and use them...... PERIOD....... Your boots are TOAST if your soles wear out. Good luck finding new soles yrs later! I had to order my last set of Alpine soles from Lockwoods Ski in England..... For my boot I bought ALL of them they had left!!! LMAO

If this is your first REAL boot rodeo... look for a Masterfit bootfitter w/in 300 miles. Believe me it's TOTALLY worth the drive and consider this a long term investment as it has saved me serious $$$$ over the last 13 yrs. Most importantly, let your Masterfit bootfitter tell you which brands have the appropriate shell for your foot, after they analyze your particular foot!

i think it should be noted that spending $500 and doing a masterfit course is one thing, having the years on the bench and the skills to back up the bit of paper is another, search out the fitter but find recommendations for that fitter

 

[Uncle-A]

My moderately high instep has me stuck in-between the worlds of 100 mm and 102 mm last boots. As I'm relatively new to this, I had two questions...
1) What 100 mm boots are considered best for someone with a high instep?
2) What 102 mm boots are considered to be more performance orientated, with a more snug overall fit?

For specifics, I'm 49, 6"11, 180 lbs, intermediate/advanced, looking for that first boot to help take my skills up a notch. I have a 7.7 cm instep with 10.4 cm wide feet and I've been fitted into a 27.5 mondo boot (longest foot 27.1 cm). I've tried the Atomic Prime and Magna 110s- Prime is super snug all over and unbearable before bootfitting on the instep. I'm not sure I ski enough to break them in/justify the bootfitting it will require (10 to 20 days a year at best). Magna is still snug on instep and forefoot with good heelhold (but I can lift it if I really try hard- prime was like I was in concrete), toe box is roomy, and I do have to crank the buckles tighter to get a good fit. ATM I'm going with the Magna (with a semi-custom insole), but I'm wondering if there are better starting spots as well as what I'm losing by not going with the prime. There's no summer bootfitting or boots to try on in my town in the midwest while the online prices are good, so I'm turning to your expert opinions. Please be kind to a dude who rediscovered skiing a few years ago and would like to get the last 30 years back.

I understand your issue because I have a wide foot and a high instep. The Technica 10.2 is what solved my issues. It would be a place to start trying on the Technica brand boots.

 

[DanoT]

There are a few things to consider with regard to the savings IMO:

1) Boot cost can be amortized over several years. If you have your boots for 5 years, the savings may not be much on a yearly basis compared to other costs of skiing.
2) You're more likely to get a non-optimal boot and want new ones sooner going at it yourself (or do other things to "fix" it, like boot work on new liners), leading to more spending.
3) If you buy boots now, and see a fitter later you will pay for the fitting services, where a lot may be included in the price already if you see a good fitter and buy the boots from them.

^^^This. The most expensive boot you can buy is the online "bargain" that gets replaced sooner than later due to improper fit. Do not buy boots online and this goes double for someone buying their first pair of boots.

Also, custom footbeds are a must and should last thru several pairs of boots, so we are talking lasting decades for most skiers.

BTW, @DerKommissar, your instep measurement of 7.7cm is incorrect, lilekly do to incorrect methodology. To properly measure the instep, take a length of string and start the end of the string at the back of the heel at one side, then run the string over the highest point of the instep, terminating at the back of the heel on the other side of the foot. If the length of string used to complete the measurement is longer than the foot's length, then that is considered a foot with a high instep.

 

[DerKommissar]

^^^This. The most expensive boot you can buy is the online "bargain" that gets replaced sooner than later due to improper fit. Do not buy boots online and this goes double for someone buying their first pair of boots.

Also, custom footbeds are a must and should last thru several pairs of boots, so we are talking lasting decades for most skiers.

BTW, @DerKommissar, your instep measurement of 7.7cm is incorrect, lilekly do to incorrect methodology. To properly measure the instep, take a length of string and start the end of the string at the back of the heel at one side, then run the string over the highest point of the instep, terminating at the back of the heel on the other side of the foot. If the length of string used to complete the measurement is longer than the foot's length, then that is considered a foot with a high instep.

Thanks for the tips- I do think I can get the Atomic Prime to work with some bootfitting, and I have a Sidas semi-custom footbed on order. I'll try the string technique- I got my measurements from the FischerScan and Verifyt apps. I've also been custom fit for running shoes, and they've told me I have a moderate to high instep and arch. I totally agree with all the advice here- it's just more difficult to do all of that this far from ski country. We do have a shop that will fit boots, but we don't have boot fitters as you would define them here. Closest masterfit fitter is in Chicago.

 

[DanoT]

I got my measurements from the FischerScan and Verifyt apps. I've also been custom fit for running shoes, and they've told me I have a moderate to high instep and arch.

Yeah, the FischerScan is no doubt accurate and relates to actual boot instep measurements, whereas my string measurement system just gives an indication of whether an instep is considered high volume.

Under your circumstances, I would strongly consider a week long ski holiday at a resort that has an on mountain ski shop where tweaking the boot over the course of the ski week is part of the boot buying experience. An alternative might be a ski shop at or near where you mostly ski and get in a few consecutive weekends/days locally early season and get adjustments done that way.

 

[Yo Momma]

i think it should be noted that spending $500 and doing a masterfit course is one thing, having the years on the bench and the skills to back up the bit of paper is another, search out the fitter but find recommendations for that fitter

Good point @cem . Once a consumer is more versed in the options available, they can understand the how to vet their bootfitter and find a quality Provider. Initially, Masterfit serves the purpose of offering the entry level consumer a high quality consistent and reliable point of entry into the bootfitting world.

No disrespect meant to the great bootfitters out there who are not part of the Masterfit ecosystem. In my profession as a dentist, it's the Pankey Institute. (No affiliation as I'm not a Pankey dentist) To find a top notch dentist go to the Pankey website and pick one. They have paid serious $$$ to become Pankey dentists. It's easy for the consumer to access top level dentistry through Pankey. There are tons of amazing dentists who are not Pankey, but it's all word of mouth at that point and all most of us know is whether or not it hurt.

 

[Uncle-A]

Good point @cem . Once a consumer is more versed in the options available, they can understand the how to vet their bootfitter and find a quality Provider. Initially, Masterfit serves the purpose of offering the entry level consumer a high quality consistent and reliable point of entry into the bootfitting world.

No disrespect meant to the great bootfitters out there who are not part of the Masterfit ecosystem. In my profession as a dentist, it's the Pankey Institute. (No affiliation as I'm not a Pankey dentist) To find a top notch dentist go to the Pankey website and pick one. They have paid serious $$$ to become Pankey dentists. It's easy for the consumer to access top level dentistry through Pankey. There are tons of amazing dentists who are not Pankey, but it's all word of mouth at that point and all most of us know is whether or not it hurt.

First thanks for Pankey it is a new name to me.
Second if they paid serious $$$ to become one are they charging serious $$$???

 

[Yo Momma]

First thanks for Pankey it is a new name to me.
Second if they paid serious $$$ to become one are they charging serious $$$???

Dave has the answer!

 

[markojp]

Yes, I do have medium high arches. I use the medium profile currex insert in my running shoes and I was expecting to get something similar for boots. I would say that my ankle movement is somewhat limited, but it's really hard to know what normal is given that these are the only ankles I've ever had. The stiffest boots I've skied on were 90 flex Salomon rentals, so I was just taking a logical step up. I know it would be better to start from scratch at a boot fitter, but we only have one shop in town, and it's going to cost a good bit more to do so (plus fitting). I was hoping to get a good boot now, during the end of year sales, and still go in and have them fit it when the season starts. I just was not sure how much the Hawx prime could adapt to a high instep. I feel like I could ski the magna out of the box, but I agree they could get too loose over time. It feels a bit weird to be a dude in the midwest trusting a midwest boot fitter to get the prime to fit me- if they can't or they mess it up, I'd have an unskiable boot. But maybe I just need to trust them and stop worrying about it.

Ski boots are not running shoes. Any boot you can ski out of the box is likely going to end up being at least a full size too large. Don't fight the idea of going to a fitter. If you choose to do it yourself, there's no reason to continue the thread. Tough love, but that's just the way boots work... or don't.