Wide Skis Bad...

[Matt Merritt]

I am very curious as to why you started skiing again after almost forty years away, and what your overall experience was.

Where to start without causing the mods to really want to close this thread...

I was a fully-certified, full-time instructor at Park City resort from 1976-84 who worked with horses in the off-season. In 1984 a ski student offered me a job in Los Angeles, where I continued working with horses part-time, married a horse trainer, and stayed until six years ago when she and I moved to Texas and bought a small ranch.

I had a very good horse but for a variety of reasons we just weren't clicking in the show arena. Someone made a good offer and last December I sold him. I told my wife I was ready for a break and really had an urge to ski again. A Texas friend had just moved to Bend, OR and I thought I'd pay him a visit and spend a day on the slopes.

Before my Bend trip I stopped at a ski shop in Fort Worth that was going out of business and walked out the door with a new pair of new old-stock Salomon ski boots.

I signed up for a private lesson at Mt. Bachelor and suspect I gave my instructor plenty to report that evening when his wife asked him about his day.

Going up the lift I was as nervous as any first timer but I couldn't believe it - I could still ski - notwithstanding now being 64 years old with a level of fitness that came from sitting on horses and fixing fence between hours at my office desk.

For whatever reason I never paid the slightest attention to the ski industry my entire 38 years away. I was amazed by how the skis' graphics at the Fort Worth shop all looked like they were designed by graffiti artists and how much my new Salomons felt like my old Lange XLRs. Not much difference with the bindings or clothes, either, other than the helmets and the disappointing lack of Vuarnet sunglasses.

After Mt. Bachelor came trips to Park City, Taos and Winter Park and the purchase of an Ikon pass for next year. As previously mentioned I bought a pair of last year's Kastle FX86s and I really get how nowadays a guy could find himself owning a lot of skis.

I'm currently enjoying watching instructional videos and might even spring for the extra $300 it costs to renew a PSIA membership that's lapsed over five years (hah).

So, that's it. I'm that guy, recently thawed out from a thousand years inside an arctic glacier, staring in wonderment at this whole new world of skiing. I'm currently enjoying a beautiful Texas summer and looking forward to next season to say the least.

Thanks, SkiTalk.

 

[Dr. Kim]

Adding some fuel to the FAT SKI fire with this contribution on the origins of FAT SKI SYNDROME. Comments later. Thanks.

 

[Dr. Kim]

Last year I started skiing again after almost four decades away. I had no reference to fall back on whatsoever but nonetheless still hated my new skis on my first day at Mt. Bachelor. I'd taken a private lesson for my first turns and asked why my demo Nordicas felt so awful. My instructor suggested I swap my 112mm underfoot skis for a pair with a width in the mid 80s and my next day's Volkl Blazes were a comparative revelation.

I now own a pair of Kastle FX86s but I still crave a pair of narrow carvers. My season ended before I ever found demos to try but have a complete crush on those flourescent yellow Head e-Race Pros that I might just have to own anyway. Ooh, 68mm...

The other day I came upon this lecture from the 2019 PSIA National Academy on some of the negative effects of wide skis on skiers' technique, muscles and joints:


An online search bought up a number of additional videos such as this one from Ron Kipp, whom I admire very much. Mr. Kipp noted in the comments that his video was targeted at race coaches and asked other skiers to please not be offended. But, still...


I aspire to make turns like all those hand-dragging video stars I love to watch so I guess wide skis bad.

 

[James]

All dead horses need a beating occasionally

Yep, need something to practice cpr on.

Adding some fuel to the FAT SKI fire with this contribution on the origins of FAT SKI SYNDROME. Comments later. Thanks.

You keep quoting text but there’s nothing written. Is it getting lost?

 

[Truberski]

My aging and ailing knees took notice of the idea/theory that wider skis can aggregate your knees. I get out 50 to 65 days per season despite my knees and have struggled with finding a narrower ski that thrills me. Head E-Rally and Blossom AM74 were my most recent attempts getting under 88 mm but they didn’t have the versatility that I favor. Previous generation Blizzard Bramha 88 was the narrowest ski I’ve found that really works for me.

I know this is thread drift here but any suggestions on a narrower all-mountain ski that is not locking into one turn type/technique and is decent at groomed to typical late day Vermont conditions and bumps? My resolution is to demo a bunch of skis this next winter to find a better every day ski for me. Brahma 82 and Declivity 82 are on the list but happy to go narrower if there are models that aren’t so groomer/carved turn centric.

Just seems like the ski industry has punted on the idea of a narrow all-mountain ski, or even narrow, non-beginner twin-tip for that matter. I’ve got a quiver of skis but my ideal ski (I think) would be a narrower Fischer FR 94, Blizzard Rustler 9, J Skis Masterblaster, Black Crows Serpo, etc.

 

[Jilly]

Get on that Brahma 82....I have similar problems. Really wanted to get a pair, but my friend that Nordica rep wanted to get rid of a pair of Santa Anna 88's....

 

[Andy Mink]

My aging and ailing knees took notice of the idea/theory that wider skis can aggregate your knees. I get out 50 to 65 days per season despite my knees and have struggled with finding a narrower ski that thrills me. Head E-Rally and Blossom AM74 were my most recent attempts getting under 88 mm but they didn’t have the versatility that I favor. Previous generation Blizzard Bramha 88 was the narrowest ski I’ve found that really works for me.

I know this is thread drift here but any suggestions on a narrower all-mountain ski that is not locking into one turn type/technique and is decent at groomed to typical late day Vermont conditions and bumps? My resolution is to demo a bunch of skis this next winter to find a better every day ski for me. Brahma 82 and Declivity 82 are on the list but happy to go narrower if there are models that aren’t so groomer/carved turn centric.

Just seems like the ski industry has punted on the idea of a narrow all-mountain ski, or even narrow, non-beginner twin-tip for that matter. I’ve got a quiver of skis but my ideal ski (I think) would be a narrower Fischer FR 94, Blizzard Rustler 9, J Skis Masterblaster, Black Crows Serpo, etc.

Rossi Experience 82Ti or Basalt perhaps. The 86Ti is a really fun all around ski and the 82 (or even the 78) would appear to follow in that vein. Poke around the Ski Reviews located here.

 

[Truberski]

Rossi Experience 82Ti or Basalt perhaps. The 86Ti is a really fun all around ski and the 82 (or even the 78) would appear to follow in that vein. Poke around the Ski Reviews located here.

I did that very thing this morning! What better to do after a hot, humid night?!? I noted the Rossi E82 and E86 as candidates based on the feedback. But, here too the model design cuts off in mid to low 80s and the narrower ones lose the TI (and follow trend of narrower all-mountain skis losing much of the tech compared to wider siblings).

 

[James]

What length?

and follow trend of narrower all-mountain skis losing much of the tech compared to wider siblings

You kind of say two different things. You want it smeary, -twin tip Rustler 9, yet beefy?

Not on the smeary side-

2022 Salomon S/Force Bold

Philpug: Even though the S/Force shares much of its DNA with the narrower S/Max, Salomon made the S/Force much more compliant at its extremities. The S/Force does come easy into a turn and even with its flared square tail, it can easily be worked out of a carve without any resistance. Where...

www.skitalk.com

Alpine Skis, Downhill Skis For Men, Women And Children

Explore our wide range of alpine and downhill skis for men, women, and children. Find the perfect skis for your next thrilling winter adventure.

www.levelninesports.com

 

[KingGrump]

My aging and ailing knees took notice of the idea/theory that wider skis can aggregate your knees. I get out 50 to 65 days per season despite my knees and have struggled with finding a narrower ski that thrills me. Head E-Rally and Blossom AM74 were my most recent attempts getting under 88 mm but they didn’t have the versatility that I favor. Previous generation Blizzard Bramha 88 was the narrowest ski I’ve found that really works for me.

I know this is thread drift here but any suggestions on a narrower all-mountain ski that is not locking into one turn type/technique and is decent at groomed to typical late day Vermont conditions and bumps? My resolution is to demo a bunch of skis this next winter to find a better every day ski for me. Brahma 82 and Declivity 82 are on the list but happy to go narrower if there are models that aren’t so groomer/carved turn centric.

Just seems like the ski industry has punted on the idea of a narrow all-mountain ski, or even narrow, non-beginner twin-tip for that matter. I’ve got a quiver of skis but my ideal ski (I think) would be a narrower Fischer FR 94, Blizzard Rustler 9, J Skis Masterblaster, Black Crows Serpo, etc.

As much as we all like to find a skinny front side carver unicorn that excels in off piste and junk snow. A more expedient and rewarding action would be to modify the technical approach to our skiing.

 

[David Chaus]

I love my fat skis. They are not bad, they are good, even great. I didn’t use them at all this past season due to the prevailing conditions. I used them a lot last season. Just the way it goes some seasons.

I mostly used my Blossom AM 77’s as an all-mountain daily driver, which is pretty narrow compared to what is typically used in the PNW. Most of the time I didn’t feel “this would be great if I have my one of my other skis.” Like Grump noted, a good versatile frontside ski can be really good to develop skills in bumps and off-piste.

 

[Jilly]

As much as we all like to find a skinny front side carver unicorn that excels in off piste and junk snow. A more expedient and rewarding action would be to modify the technical approach to our skiing.

I remember skiing 18" of powder 2 days in a row at Copper with Volkl Targa R's. Really straight and really skinny. You learned or you didn't ski.

 

[KingGrump]

I remember skiing 18" of powder 2 days in a row at Copper with Volkl Targa R's. Really straight and really skinny. You learned or you didn't ski.

Mamie loved her Volkl Targa also.

Alta, April 1987.

 

[tromano]

There's a reason why different shapes, widths, constructions exist. Different skiing movements work better on some skis than others. And the skis interact with the snow in different ways. So deciding how you want to ski and learning how different skis work with the snow conditions is instrumental in figuring out what ski you want.

 

[Truberski]

As much as we all like to find a skinny front side carver unicorn that excels in off piste and junk snow. A more expedient and rewarding action would be to modify the technical approach to our skiing.

You are correct that the ski I have in mind is a unicorn but not because I want it to be excel in all conditions. I have other skis for powder and soft conditions but am curious about a narrrower version of that same ski. The Fischer 94 FR would be a good start point with it being the kind of ski I gravitate to as an everyday ski. Just drop 10 to 15 mm from sidecut dimensions, perhaps add some more metal but otherwise keep the design consistent. Volkl, K2, Blizzard, etc. kind of do it with more “chargy” skis but none carry the concept to narrower waist widths, and even fewer do it with more playful skis. Seems like a worthy experiment for an Indy manufacturer or Creative type to “brand” Freeride ski for the conditions you actually ski not dream about.

in the end, I’m going to demo a bunch of skis and see if there is a noticeable difference in my knees AND do I like how they ski. If not, I’ll happily keep with my current formula and stick with my mid-80s to mid-90s skis for most days in VT.

 

[Jilly]

Mine are part of a bench here at the cottage. Along with about 5 other pairs of skis.

 

[GregK]

Just seems like the ski industry has punted on the idea of a narrow all-mountain ski, or even narrow, non-beginner twin-tip

There is definitely a big drop off in skis under 100mm wide for what you’re describing. The Fisher 94FR is too light(as are the newer 90/96 Rangers)for crud and the Rustlers or Enforcers have too much taper for decent hard snow grip.
The Brahma 82/88 would be a great bet for all mountain performance in the East but aren’t really very fun or playful.

But the East coast unicorn/narrower playful charger does exist! Imagine the latest heavier Brahma 82/88 with more damping, longer radius for higher stability and yet it’s a twin tip with a more forward mount point. The 21 Faction CT 1.0.
It’s 92mm underfoot but feels more like a mid/high 80s ski wide GS ski with it’s narrow tip width which is the same as a Brahma 82.

Currently have a pair(and backups) for myself and 2 others pairs that I recently bought for friends wanting something that’s great and not demanding regardless of conditions. When it’s firm all day then I move to something narrower but found it surprising how versatile they are last season.

 

[Truberski]

There is definitely a big drop off in skis under 100mm wide for what you’re describing. The Fisher 94FR is too light(as are the newer 90/96 Rangers)for crud and the Rustlers or Enforcers have too much taper for decent hard snow grip.
The Brahma 82/88 would be a great bet for all mountain performance in the East but aren’t really very fun or playful.

But the East coast unicorn/narrower playful charger does exist! Imagine the latest heavier Brahma 82/88 with more damping, longer radius for higher stability and yet it’s a twin tip with a more forward mount point. The 21 Faction CT 1.0.
It’s 92mm underfoot but feels more like a mid/high 80s ski wide GS ski with it’s narrow tip width which is the same as a Brahma 82.

Currently have a pair(and backups) for myself and 2 others pairs that I recently bought for friends wanting something that’s great and not demanding regardless of conditions. When it’s firm all day then I move to something narrower but found it surprising how versatile they are last season.

I thought I’d hear from you! You get what I’m after and confirm that I’m not a complete mad man. Weight of ski is a definite factor as is excessive taper and rocker. So many potential winner skis out there but too many go too light, and the heavy ones rarely have fun factor. Resistance is futile….

 

[Philpug]

Just because someone doesn't like a ski doesn't mean its bad.

 

[Jilly]

Just because someone doesn't like a ski doesn't mean its bad.

Correct. It just means it NOT you ski.