Wintersteiger Discman 4 - handheld tuner with both side and edge sharpener

Rich_Ease_3051

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Looking at this instead of Razor Tune, which is out of stock.


Advantage of Discman 4 vs Razor Tune is option of an add-on base edge tool. Am I right that Razor Tune only does side edge?

Another advantage is the use of a Makita battery, which could be available in most hardware stores.

Advantage of Razor Tune is that it's more stable by sharpening with the tool base up. Discman appears to require the ski to be sideways for the weight of the tool to bear down on the side.

Thoughts?
 

anders_nor

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razor-tune should be in stock by winter though? love mine, discman looks kinda .. weird?
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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razor-tune should be in stock by winter though? love mine, discman looks kinda .. weird?
For southern hemispher winter.

Yeah it looks even more top heavy than Swix Evo. But I like that it can also sharpen the base, which the Evo or Razor Tune doesn't.
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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Some other key differences:

Discman 4 - adjustable to 85 and 90 degrees in ½ degree increments (built-in)

Swix Evo - adjustable to 85 and 90 degrees in 1 degree increments (built-in)

Razor Tune - comes with 3 and 2 degree angle plates. Custom angle plates are available upon request at no charge.
Can I tune at angles other than 3 and 2 degrees?
Yes. Most people choose the standard 3 degree for racing and 2 degree for recreational skis, but we also sell 1 and 4 degree plates. The WC Angle Kit includes 1 degree plate, 4 degree plate, and 1/2 degree shim to be used under any whole degree plate. (For tuning at 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, and 4.5 degrees.)
Need a more custom angle? Just let us know the angle you would like, and we will 3-D print you a custom shim free of charge.
 

Dave Marshak

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The first decision is whether you want to hold the ski base up or edge up/base away. Most people prefer the base up, like a Raxor Tune, but I find it easier to hold the ski edge up.

Between the Swix EVO and the Discman, the EVO adjusts the side angle more easily, but maybe less accurately. The Discman requires changing parts with tools to change the angle.

The battery can be a real plus, depending on how your workspace is set up. I work outside and needed to run an extension cord every time, so adding a battery to my EVO was a game changer. YMMV.

I don't think there is any need to grind the base edge. You need to take any damage off the base edge by hand anyway, and then all the sharpening can be done from the side without changing the base angles. The attachment looks harder than using stones by hand, and you'll need to re-install several times to finish one pair of skis.

The worst part of the Winterstieger is that the pressure on the edge needs to be adjusted continually as you work along the edge, which you can see starting at 1:40 in the video:


That's a high skill operation and a deal breaker for me.

Hope this helps.

dm
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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I don't think there is any need to grind the base edge. You need to take any damage off the base edge by hand anyway, and then all the sharpening can be done from the side without changing the base angles.

Thanks Dave.

I'm interested in other people's thoughts on not grinding the base edge.

This analogy may be wrong, but that would be like sharpening a knife only on one side? And when I think about it, it seems like a knife can get sharp by just sharpening one side.
 

Dave Marshak

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This analogy may be wrong, but that would be like sharpening a knife only on one side? And when I think about it, it seems like a knife can get sharp by just sharpening one side.
I think that's right, but you can easily finish the base edge perfectly by hand with coarse and fine stones. IME the EVO is stalled by any edge damage, so you need to take that down by hand anyway. You definitely want to be careful about taking too much off the base, which will send you to the shop for a base grind.

dm
 

KingGrump

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I'm interested in other people's thoughts on not grinding the base edge.

This analogy may be wrong, but that would be like sharpening a knife only on one side? And when I think about it, it seems like a knife can get sharp by just sharpening one side.

Not quite the correct analogy.

The base bevel is registered off the ptex base. The base edge can not be effective "sharpened" without removing additional ptex via a stone grinding.
Removing the high spots on the base edge from rock strike with a hand stone is very do-able. Sharpening, not really.
One can always "sharpen" the base edge by increasing the existing base bevel.
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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Not quite the correct analogy.

The base bevel is registered off the ptex base. The base edge can not be effective "sharpened" without removing additional ptex via a stone grinding.
Removing the high spots on the base edge from rock strike with a hand stone is very do-able. Sharpening, not really.
One can always "sharpen" the base edge by increasing the existing base bevel.
But wouldn't the ptex base ideally and for the most part be 90 degrees? And the base edge be 89.5 degress and below?

If I get this right, it's harder to "f cuk around" with the base edge because doing so would require removing base ptex, which is not advisable as you want the base ptex to be "intact" and 90 degrees flat?

But the side edge is removeable (compared to the base ptex) without consequence. This is in fact called "removing the sidewall", which has no consequence as far as ski performance (unless too much is removed affecting the integrity of the ski)?

In summary, do not grind/sharpen the base edge as that would require grinding the ski base, which you do not want becuase we want the base ptex to be flat and intact.

But we can grind/sharpen and change the angle of the side edge because doing so would only require taking off some of the sidewall, which is of no consequence as far as the performance and integrity of the ski?
 

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Looking at this instead of Razor Tune, which is out of stock.

razor-tune should be in stock by winter though? love mine, discman looks kinda .. weird?

Razor Tune looks to be in stock at reliable racing. You'll have to talk to them directly about shipping to Oz, though.

 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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Razor Tune looks to be in stock at reliable racing. You'll have to talk to them directly about shipping to Oz, though.


Can I buy the corded version, which is available:


And then buy a separate battery pack, which is also available?



Is it possible to just plug in the battery pack to the corded version?
 

Atomicman

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Discman looks really awkward. I don't like the adjustment of the stone or it teetering on the side edge. No need for base edge, , pretty much do it once after a grind and you really don' touch it thereafter, unless some pretty serious dings, which are easily fixable by hand. I have 2, 3 & 4 degree base plates for the RT, use a 4 degree on my FIS SL's
 

James

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Thanks Dave.

I'm interested in other people's thoughts on not grinding the base edge.

This analogy may be wrong, but that would be like sharpening a knife only on one side? And when I think about it, it seems like a knife can get sharp by just sharpening one side.
Well it’s wrong, but also brings up a point. A rounded one.
After some time, the edge can become so rounded that you can’t get it sharpened only from the side. You have to do the base edge too. Unless you want to increase you base bevel significantly, the only way to do that would be to get a base grind to lower the whole plane of the base, then reset the metal base edge.

That’s where it differs from a knife. It’s closer to a single bevel Japanese knife, but even there you can hone the back side flat to get your edge.

So years ago it used to be more common to just have a shop grind the base flat and then you do the side edge yourself. But in the last ten or so years this is less worth it imo as machines can give a better base edge finish. Of course, getting a proper flat enough base itself can be a problem.

I don’t see the ability to do base edge at this juncture to be much of an advantage. Bases don’t need to be ground that much. If someone came out with a home device to easily stone grind the base, then it might be a different story.

As it is, we’re stuck with machines costing a good fraction of $1 million that may or may not automatically do what we want. The machines don't check the ouput themselves.

If ever there was a machine to use a cord instead of battery, it’s that Discman. Just too much mass high up.
Can’t decide on that finger adjustment to engage the stone. Might be ok, even better. I agree with Dave in that it makes this more appropriate for someone used to working a lot with tools.
 

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