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WOMEN’S World Cup 2021-2022

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James

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Swedish coach Per Jonsson lurking in the backgrond :)
The guy with the camera?
Deb makes a bit of a mess with that talk when she says whatever she’s saying. This is what editing is for.
 

Swede

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The guy with the camera?
Deb makes a bit of a mess with that talk when she says whatever she’s saying. This is what editing is for.
Yes, then there're (I believe) members from the French, Slovenian and Italian coaching team too. Not 100% sure, difficult to see. It's on Copper, right?
 
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Tricia

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I'm just posting to say that while it was a great race between Petra and Shiffy, I was way more excited about 7th for Paula! So much hard work for her to have gotten where she is now.
Agreed.
One of the things I'm liking about this season is, we're not just tuning in to watch Mikaela dominate. We're tuning in to watch several athletes in the field.
When Mikaela was interviewed I was impressed with her acknowledgement that there were some amazing competitors in the ranks.
 
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4ster

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A bit on release here with Travis Ganong some years ago.
I often hear racers say “push” or “pushing on the ski” & I wish they would find a better descriptor. To me the word push is something I try to avoid unless it is to push with your poles out of the start. I think they are really talking about extending but then that also paints a picture of moving away from the ski & the hill. I would rather hear it as “pressing against the ski” or “pressing the edge of the ski into the snow” because the power down the hill really does come from that.

Agreed.
One of the things I'm liking about this season is, we're not just tuning in to watch Mikaela dominate. We're tuning in to watch several athletes in the field.
When Mikaela was interviewed I was impressed with her acknowledgement that there were some amazing competitors in the ranks.
I too am a huge Shiffrin fan but I have always tuned in to watch the race & all the racers. I think I watched all 70 racers in the first run at Levi!
I was also a big Hirscher fan & before that Bode, Rahlves, Mair, Janica Kostelic, Campangioni, Aamodt, Girardelli, Tomba, Stenmark, McKinney, Mahre, Killy etc.. Great for us that some are Americans & occasionally we have more than one in the top seed but ski racing has always been a mostly European sport so as a fan I would be pretty limited & often disappointed if I was only for Americans. I watch to witness exceptional performance which sometimes comes from the back of the pack which we saw from #60 Elfman last weekend & from NZ skier Robinson at Solden a couple years ago.
There has been some discussion in one of these threads about what’s going to happen when Shiffrin is done. Will the slight increase in interest she has brought just go away or will there be another American success story in ski racing? Likely not the caliber of Shiffrin right away & if a dominant racer does emerge the chances are small that it will be an American.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s great that performers like Mikaela, Bode, Lindsey & Ted have gained us some US interest in the sport, I just hope the new fans stick around & that the commentators would give some time to some of the others & realize it is not all about Shiffrin.
Just sayin’ :)
 
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HardDaysNight

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I just hope the new fans stick around & that the commentators would give some time to some of the others & realize it is not all about Shiffrin.
This is a long-standing theme in US coverage of sports. During his heyday, golf commentators would follow Tiger Woods and show his every shot even if he was many strokes behind the leader and bringing up the rear in the tournament. They’d rather show Woods taking a dump than cover a lesser known player, especially if that player wasn’t an American.
 

dbostedo

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They’d rather show Woods taking a dump than cover a lesser known player, especially if that player wasn’t an American.
There's a bit of a chicken-and-egg effect that happens with things like that. Broadcasters will say they are showing what people want and what brings in the highest ratings. But the fact that they focus on one person so much helps create that demand.

Or in chicken-and-egg terms, was Tiger so popular because of the coverage focus on him? Or was the coverage focus on him because he was so popular? Probably a bit of both, that build on each other, making it self-reinforcing. That seems to be the case with any niche sport, because the money is in getting eyeballs, and you wind up catering to the very casual fans who likely only care about the biggest star (because the hard-core fans will watch regardless).
 

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My “take” is that we are watching an athlete who has a chronic injury, and cannot perform {at least right now,} at the level she once did. Not for the full length of two runs, and TBD based on event and venue. Hopefully it is not “that chronic.”

Therefore, things have tightened up with the field. And PV’s skiing, energy and fitness look great…which surprises some. She had a torturous season last year.

Before the back began to be problematic, think about MS in SL. This is 4-5 years ago. She would win a run, consistently by a second or more. Wow.

PV has not just suddenly appeared in the past few years. She was clearly going to be among the best as a very tall, lanky world SL champ at the 2014 World Juniors.

MS is 3 months older than PV.

PV was winning gold early, like in the SL at the 2014 Jr. Worlds.

However, MS was at an entirely different level, having won the SL Gold at the grown up FIS World Champs, the winter before in 2013. Incredible.

PV is a serious athlete. Some say 6’ tall, 165 lbs plus. Not LV big, but she has morphed into a very strong lady.

I look at the SL field today as PV, and the rest, if we exclude MS. Maybe, maybe we see the mental game improve for a couple of others, and a final breakthrough win….Holdener being the top example. But only when and if PV falters.

Then we have MS. I read and hear that “she has some back pain.” Really? Might be a bit more to it. It’s not that she can’t ski through some pain. She is tough as nails and could do that. She also has plenty of medical and PT support. It’s more and to a critical eye it is clear that she can’t do what she has before. Can’t move the same way. And, it varies quite a bit.

So what is sad to me is not that things are close and that the 6 remaining SL’s should be close {note that I am not talking any GS}, but that they are close because MS can’t apparently ski as she could. She has come back, if you will, to the field.

I like to remember the season of the record winning margins. Not that long ago. And I hate to even think of a decline at her age.

PV sure is skiing so well, which I think is just remarkable considering how she looked at times at the end of last season….which was not that long ago. She was physically and I believe mentally on fumes. Now? Wow!

Which to me makes MS digging deep and pulling out the win at Killington, “at home” just remarkable. Great. Tough.

You never know what you’ll hear in an interview with M, other than she will ALWAYS congratulate and praise her competitors and these days her younger teammates. And she will ALWAYS thank the local organizers for their hard work in putting the event on. That response track has be practiced and drilled into her.

I suspect that the USST Media Officer makes her available and lays out what is off limits for interviews. Like “OK, what is going on with your back…really?” Instead we hear that it was kinda stiff, but she rested, had a massage and all was good.

When she gets a surprise question, look for the deer in the headlights expression. And, as others have mentioned, she then seriously contemplates her response.

This back “thing” sounds sort of like Tom Brady last season. Yeah knee is a bit sore, brace is just to protect it. Nothing there. Season’s then over, Super Bowl on the shelf and…..yeah I just had surgery on my MCL and had my knee scoped. ACL “just” strained, no surgery….

@4ster’s post is a great one. ^^^. When I watch a race, on the screen, or on the hill, I watch everybody. Applaud their efforts.
NOTHING pisses me off more than seeing the mass exodus of people off the hill at a local USSS race the very minute the flip is concluded. Mostly parents carrying the U10’s slip skis. Wake up! Watch a cheer on every-body.

I recall a FIS race when my son was young. A NorAm. A FY skier with a bib like 115 skied through crap and missed the flip by maybe .03 secs? Amazing run. So, the entire place emptied out after the 30th skier in run #2 had gone. Race over, right? Only NINETY FIVE more to race {everybody skied two runs back then}. And then, bib number 115 just killed it, starting 31st. Won the run. Did not win the race, and I think maybe finished 5th? But made a huge impression. Most missed it. Really sank in with me.

Back to MS. We’ll see. Fingers crossed. I hate to think of it.

I SO admire Hirscher’s long term plan to “no longer be doing this when I am 30!” Well, he missed by a few months. But he walked away, on top, healthy.
 
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4ster

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Before the back began to be problematic, think about MS in SL. This is 4-5 years ago. She would win a run, consistently by a second or more. Wow.
Stenmark had a long lull away from his days of huge margins then came back at the end of his career & showed us some amazing skiing in both SL & GS against the likes of Tomba, Girardelli, Zurbriggen & a few other young rippers. I don’t think we’ll see Shiffrin hang around to do that back issues or not. Once her winning ways wane I think she’ll be done. That’s why I totally get your head shaking when Ligety talks about 100 wins, that’s fairy tale stuff. A great fairytale we’d all like to witness, I just hope she can go long enough to get the 87 wins but that would even be beyond my expectations.
BTW, Shiffrin did have the fastest 2nd run on Sunday & l think that would’ve held even if Vlhova hadn’t had the big mistake. You could also see that Shiffrin was a little let down that she didn’t beat Vlhova at her best. It’s a classic rivalry & even if it costs Shiffrin some wins it definitely makes things more exciting!

PV is a serious athlete. Some say 6’ tall, 165 lbs plus. Not LV big, but she has morphed into a very strong lady.
Yeah, they were saying 5’9” last weekend. I’m not buying it, I had always heard 5’11”.
 
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dbostedo

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I had always heard 5’11”.
Google says 5' 11", so that must be right!

1638304746483.png
 

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LL training for the women began today (1 of 3). Goggia and Stuhec led the way. Hope Stuhec can be back towards the top of the leaderboard this year, but ... she really hasn't been the same since 2017.

Shiffrin 1.9 back in 17th, but was 4th between I3 and I4, which I'm pretty sure is the headwall.
 

James

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I often hear racers say “push” or “pushing on the ski” & I wish they would find a better descriptor. To me the word push is something I try to avoid unless it is to push with your poles out of the start. I think they are really talking about extending but then that also paints a picture of moving away from the ski & the hill. I would rather hear it as “pressing against the ski” or “pressing the edge of the ski into the snow” because the power down the hill really does come from that.
I hear you with the “push” word. But at that level, is it really any different than “pressing against the ski”? You’re talking 60mph, edge angles well beyond 45 deg, the ski flopping all over sometimes while in the arc. @S.H. , and @Swede , what do you say?
One of the cool things about that slo motion video is you can see that even in a pretty clean carve, the tip of the ski is wandering in and out of the groove.
 

Tricia

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Just did some clean up.
Now we can get back to discussing racing.
Thanks all.
 
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