Women’s World Cup 2021

[Noodler]

I know it’s been waved of here, but from conversations I have had with people close to the Swedish team, it has been said by people on the US team (coach level) that MS have had back issues on and off. It has been given as a reason when she has not raced a few times. Now I don’t know if it’s just to give her a shield ... considering her year. But it has been said. And also, not super uncommon.

Thanks for reminding me about her back problems earlier in the season. That makes total sense.

 

[DocGKR]

It was surprising that the last place finisher was nearly 44 seconds behind the winner--very large differential....

Shiffrin having back problems would not surprise me, as many other racers have been battling such issues--look at Ted Ligety for a widely publicized example: https://skiracing.com/ted-ligety-injured-unable-to-race-final-event

 

[Tricia]

I know it’s been waved of here, but from conversations I have had with people close to the Swedish team, it has been said by people on the US team (coach level) that MS have had back issues on and off. It has been given as a reason when she has not raced a few times. Now I don’t know if it’s just to give her a shield ... considering her year. But it has been said. And also, not super uncommon (back issues). Don’t know how common different back supports are though.

That makes me feel "not so old" as I get on the floor to do back stretches.


Meanwhile

 

[Muleski]

A few thoughts, observations.

MS has had some back pain. Many of the women do from time to time...and frankly MOST of the men. It's the most common injury, or nagging pain, at the upper levels of the sport. And in the case of some {notably Ligety} it's been a career-ender. Most people have no idea of how much force goes into making these types of "turns" on these hills and injected surfaces, at this speed, with this precision. It's not like any of the skiing that any mortals do. So, yeah, MS has had some back pain and she does and wears whatever helps....as do many others.

Now to Swede's comment about it perhaps being a shield to help "explain" her missing a few starts....absolutely. No question based on some of my conversations. If she was just not ready to start for any number of reasons, emotionally and otherwise, "her back is giving her problems" is a easy explanation that anybody would buy, and that is hard to dispute. See Soelden, this fall.

On to her skiing, and the skiing of the top five or so today. Liensberger just threw it right down the hill, IMO. Fearless. The top of that hill is VERY steep, very demanding. And it was clear that she put a big margin on everybody, both runs, by the first split time at about 11-12 seconds. Or so it appeared to me. As I watched the other girls ski, it seemed like almost everybody was well behind at that split. Just in those first turns, in run one the was a third of a second ahead of PV, and two-thirds ahead of MS. I don't think anybody else was close.

I didn't think that anybody "looked" too tremendous. Liensberger skied the best, fought for it, and she clearly earned that win. Michaela did NOT look like the MS that we have seen in the past, when she is at her best. Nor, IMO, should we expect her to. She continues go through a lot, she had almost no summer, fall, and late fall prep periods. We forget that. It's hard to catch up during the season. I believe that the press about all of the great training days that she has had is to some degree BS. I think the truth is that she has had some GREAT training days, and some days that have been hard on her....hard to even get up on the hill. Has not been into it at times. Not like in the past. So, no, she's "not back" and I'm getting tired of people saying that elsewhere.....like the guy who comments on every article on skiracing.com. The guy is CLUELESS. Posts on every single article, I don't know why they tolerate it.

I believe that had MS been at the top of her game, SHE would have had a big margin over Liensberger, and a huge one over Vhlova. I am 100% convinced that PV is very tired, just gassed. I wonder if she will come out of this with the overall. She's got winning potential in ONE event these days. I don't think she's close to a lock for any GS podium. And I would not bet on any of the surprise SG and DH results that she has had earlier in the season. Gut-B has podium potential and more {like potential wins} in THREE disciplines. I think she is really coming on, smiling and looking so strong. Relaxed and having fun. Rest of the claendar: 4 SL, 2 GS, 2 SG, 3 DH.

Vholva as of today: 989 points, a 42 point lead over G-B at 947 points. WCF's, BTW, are in Switzerland. Doesn't hurt G-B. Gisin is at 807, not happening. Not close.

My hope, and expectation is that Mikaela will give herself a much deserved pat on the back for winning four medals at the FISWC's. And that she and her mom will give each other plenty of hugs. Her team has done a really good job of managing things through so many peaks and valleys....this year has been a tough emotional roller coaster. They have done a great job, and it they even would up the season with this event, I would understand it. I kind doubt that. WC finals are just a month from now. Bet we'll see her there, even though any globes have not been a focus.

I think that this is a great day for Liensberger, that the podium is really the three best in SL, and that MS should be really proud of her WC medals!

But the margins and skiing, even among the top 15.....sort of shocking. To me. WE hear how "strong" the field is. Not so sure. Strong top six, maybe 10, sure. But check the average W's WC tech race, and how far out on run 1 the last 5 to make the flip are...like 25-30...and it's "quite a bit." Men's SL field IS stacked.

Fun day today, and it should be a very interesting end to the season.

 

[Muleski]

It was surprising that the last place finisher was nearly 44 seconds behind the winner--very large differential....

Shiffrin having back problems would not surprise me, as many other racers have been battling such issues--look at Ted Ligety for a widely publicized example: https://skiracing.com/ted-ligety-injured-unable-to-race-final-event

Not surprising. This is the FIS WC's and the entry and qualification bar is MUCH lower than you see on the WC. Max entries of four per country per event, too. Makes for a different field. Many of these women have never skied in a Europa Cup, or a Continental Cup, let alone the WC. That crew is there for the experience, to represent their countries, etc. It's actually fun to see in person as it means a lot to them.

Think of the now Mexican, formerlynknown as Sarah Schleper, native of Vail, ex USST, age 42, and 26 seconds back in the GS! She was once ranked in the top 20 in the world. Now having fun.

 

[CascadeConcrete]

It looks like MS wears a kind of back support belt underneath her speed suit. Are these support belts common across the racers?

It's not a back support belt. It's a back protector. It's for when slalom gates bounce back up and whip you across the back, or any other impacts that may occur to the area in a crash. They're very common among racers.

 

[Swede]

It's not a back support belt. It's a back protector. It's for when slalom gates bounce back up and whip you across the back, or any other impacts that may occur to the area in a crash. They're very common among racers.

I haven’t seen the images were MS allegedly wears some kind of back support, so it might of course just be a regular back protector, worn by all racers. Like helmets, It’s code. You can’t even join a U10 free skiing training session w/o one.
And not really there for protecting against SL gates whipping your back—they give support to your spine if you should collide with something stationary.

 

[AlpedHuez]

Did the Olympic Channel show MS after her Combined win when she bawling on the phone and holding up her hand shielding herself from the camera, telling the photog "I don't want you to see this!" They showed this on Eurosport live, then re-aired it before the GS. I also notice she is the only one of the women in the 1-10 bib roll-out who keeps her helmet and goggles on for the montage. Very controlling of her image.

 

[Noodler]

It's not a back support belt. It's a back protector. It's for when slalom gates bounce back up and whip you across the back, or any other impacts that may occur to the area in a crash. They're very common among racers.

No, this wasn't the back protector, this was clearly a back support belt (it wasn't for holding the protector on her back).

 

[ksampson3]

Vholva as of today: 989 points, a 42 point lead over G-B at 947 points. WCF's, BTW, are in Switzerland. Doesn't hurt G-B. Gisin is at 807, not happening. Not close.

So do this week's events not count towards the overall season points?
Also, do these wins not count in your overall "official" win total? Shiffrin has (around) 68 wins in her career. If she had won 4 events this week, would she have had 72 or still be stuck at 68?

 

[Muleski]

So do this week's events not count towards the overall season points?
Also, do these wins not count in your overall "official" win total? Shiffrin has (around) 68 wins in her career. If she had won 4 events this week, would she have had 72 or still be stuck at 68?

The FIS World Championships are NOT World Cup races. So they “don’t count.” That simple.

The World Cup resumes in Val di Fassi for the
Women this week: 2DH and a SG. Back to counting points and making globe predictions! From now on, they count!

 

[4ster]

No real surprises for me except maybe the margin of Liensberger’s win. She has been skiing so well & with obvious confidence recently, she was due. Fastest 2nd run, a true world champion!
Thought I would have been saying the same about Pinturault yesterday.
Vlhova must’ve really dug deep to do as well as she did.
I think 4 championship medals for Shiffrin is exceptional considering some of us were doubtful she would even race this year. BTW, she did make a bit of a charge & had the 2nd 3rd fastest second run.
Special acknowledgment for Slokar!

 

[Ivan]

No real surprises for me except maybe the margin of Liensberger’s win.

I don't know if I'm surprised, but I'm definitely impressed by Liensberger's mental strength. I may be wrong, but I believe this is the first time when she was in the lead after the first run. I think she handled this situation really well: didn't ski to protect her lead, instead, went for it. She looked a bit shaky in the first few gates of the second run, but quickly settled and looked very smooth and confident afterwards.

BTW, she did make a bit of a charge & had the 2nd fastest second run.

Actually, she had the 3rd fastest second run. Slokar had the 2nd fastest second run, and then Shiffrin, Vlhova, and Mair had almost identical times.

 

[4ster]

Actually, she had the 3rd fastest second run. Slokar had the 2nd fastest second run, and then Shiffrin, Vlhova, and Mair had almost identical times.

Thanks, l stand corrected. When they flashed it on the screen when Shiffrin finished I thought it said 2nd.

 

[Swede]

Top 15 in world chmps get startlist points, so improved position and chances in coming WC races, but not points that count in the fight for the globe(s).

 

[Pete in Idaho]

A few thoughts, observations.

MS has had some back pain. Many of the women do from time to time...and frankly MOST of the men. It's the most common injury, or nagging pain, at the upper levels of the sport. And in the case of some {notably Ligety} it's been a career-ender. Most people have no idea of how much force goes into making these types of "turns" on these hills and injected surfaces, at this speed, with this precision. It's not like any of the skiing that any mortals do. So, yeah, MS has had some back pain and she does and wears whatever helps....as do many others.

Now to Swede's comment about it perhaps being a shield to help "explain" her missing a few starts....absolutely. No question based on some of my conversations. If she was just not ready to start for any number of reasons, emotionally and otherwise, "her back is giving her problems" is a easy explanation that anybody would buy, and that is hard to dispute. See Soelden, this fall.

On to her skiing, and the skiing of the top five or so today. Liensberger just threw it right down the hill, IMO. Fearless. The top of that hill is VERY steep, very demanding. And it was clear that she put a big margin on everybody, both runs, by the first split time at about 11-12 seconds. Or so it appeared to me. As I watched the other girls ski, it seemed like almost everybody was well behind at that split. Just in those first turns, in run one the was a third of a second ahead of PV, and two-thirds ahead of MS. I don't think anybody else was close.

I didn't think that anybody "looked" too tremendous. Liensberger skied the best, fought for it, and she clearly earned that win. Michaela did NOT look like the MS that we have seen in the past, when she is at her best. Nor, IMO, should we expect her to. She continues go through a lot, she had almost no summer, fall, and late fall prep periods. We forget that. It's hard to catch up during the season. I believe that the press about all of the great training days that she has had is to some degree BS. I think the truth is that she has had some GREAT training days, and some days that have been hard on her....hard to even get up on the hill. Has not been intuit at times. Not like in the past. So, no, she's "not back" and I'm getting tired of people saying that elsewhere.....like the guy who comments on every article on skiracing.com. The guy is CLUELESS. Posts on every single article, I don't know why they tolerate it.

I believe that had MS been at the top of her game, SHE would have had a big margin over Liensberger, and a huge one over Vhlova. I am 100% convinced that PV is very tired, just gassed. I wonder if she will come out of this with the overall. She's got winning potential in ONE event these days. I don't think she's close to a lock for any GS podium. And I would not bet on any of the surprise SG and DH results that she has had earlier in the season. Gut-B has podium potential and more {like potential wins} in THREE disciplines. I think she is really coming on, smiling and looking so strong. Relaxed and having fun. Rest of the claendar: 4 SL, 2 GS, 2 SG, 3 DH.

Vholva as of today: 989 points, a 42 point lead over G-B at 947 points. WCF's, BTW, are in Switzerland. Doesn't hurt G-B. Gisin is at 807, not happening. Not close.

My hope, and expectation is that Mikaela will give herself a much deserved pat on the back for winning four medals at the FISWC's. And that she and her mom will give each other plenty of hugs. Her team has done a really good job of managing things through so many peaks and valleys....this year has been a tough emotional roller coaster. They have done a great job, and it they even would up the season with this event, I would understand it. I kind doubt that. WC finals are just a month from now. Bet we'll see her there, even though any globes have not been a focus.

I think that this is a great day for Liensberger, that the podium is really the three best in SL, and that MS should be really proud of her WC medals!
But the margins and skiing, even among the top 15.....sort of shocking. To me.

Fun day today, and it should be a very interesting end to the season.

Thanks for your input - always informative and insightful. Thank you Sir.

 

[4ster]

Thanks for your input - always informative and insightful. Thank you Sir.

+1 @Muleski

 

[Primoz]

It was surprising that the last place finisher was nearly 44 seconds behind the winner--very large differential....

Not really. On World Championships and Olympics anyone can start. Ok not exactly anyone, but limit is so low, that if I would have right citizenship, I would make that limit with xc skis. So 44sec is not surprising. It wouldn't be surprising even if it would be 3min 44sec. I have seen some of those races on WCH live and honestly, it's painfull to watch. For me it's not fair to real skiers, who might never see WCH or Olympics, as there's 4 better in their country, yet they still rank top 10 on World, and then you have someone who can't even properly clip skis the their feet, yet they did finish (I mean they somehow managed to get down alive) WCH or Olympics run. With men it's slightly better, as number of these people is so big, that they have quali runs day before SL and GS race, so majority of these "skiers" is out during qualifications already.
But what really is surprising is that you can get medal with 1.98sec behind, and that with +3.42 you are still top 10. With men race, differences were normal, but you can't really compare this, as with only top 15 reversed, things were different then they would be with top 30 reversed in second run, so +10.13 for place 21 is not what would really be, if race would be run normal way.

 

[James]

Ok not exactly anyone, but limit is so low, that if I would have right citizenship, I would make that limit with xc skis.

I would pay to see that! It would be very entertaining. Didier Cuche had a rough time on those old wooden skis when he retired. Not sure he would’ve made the whole course.

 

[Primoz]

@James these guys and girls never see, and even less ski, injected course until they come to World Championships or Olympics. Those limits are done basically on FIS citizens races, where conditions are pretty much same as on any ski place, except you have less chances to hit someone else skiing down, as course is still closed for public.
Cuche on the other side, went down with those wooden planks on WC finals in Schladming (been there that time, and I still remember that run), where temperatures were spring like but course was still done as proper men WC course with all injection and everything that goes with it.