Women’s World Cup 2021

[dbostedo]

^^^
And this also brings to mind this video, where they let normal folks try the start of the Hahnenkamm last year. Not super relevant, but it's a good video.

 

[Primoz]

@dbostedo I saw that one already I honestly have no idea why someone gets idea, it would be cool to get down there. Yeah sure, there's 1000 people who went down this track during weekend, but most of them knows how to ski. I have no idea if it's really that hard to know your capabilities and maybe somehow figure it out, that maybe this would be too much for me, and I rather not go down this way. Or is it really worth bragging around that you "skied" down Kitz, even though medics needed to dig you out of snow 50m after start and airlift you to hospital with broken legs, not to mention, that crashing before you even managed to get out of starting gate hardly qualifies as "I skied Hahnenkamm"

 

[dbostedo]

@dbostedo I saw that one already I honestly have no idea why someone gets idea, it would be cool to get down there. Yeah sure, there's 1000 people who went down this track during weekend, but most of them knows how to ski. I have no idea if it's really that hard to know your capabilities and maybe somehow figure it out, that maybe this would be too much for me, and I rather not go down this way. Or is it really worth bragging around that you "skied" down Kitz, even though medics needed to dig you out of snow 50m after start and airlift you to hospital with broken legs, not to mention, that crashing before you even managed to get out of starting gate hardly qualifies as "I skied Hahnenkamm"

Oh, I understand the allure... in part, you want to better understand what the racers deal with, and how far you really are from them. (I do, anyway.) Not much different to my mind than playing the same golf course as the pros in the days after a major tournament (which is usually the only time you can play the same conditions), or caring about how far you can throw or kick a football (American) as compared to the pros. Or can you bend that freekick like Messi?

Trying a real FIS race course is interesting to me and probably makes for a good story. That said, I've seen enough videos like this and read and seen enough about FIS courses, that I don't think I would have bothered trying this. But I'm not certain of that.... it's an experience I'm sure. "I tried the start of the Hahnenkamm and only made it 50 feet!"

 

[James]

Trying a real FIS race course is interesting to me and probably makes for a good story. That said, I've seen enough videos like this and read and seen enough about FIS courses, that I don't think I would have bothered trying this. But I'm not certain of that.... it's an experience I'm sure. "I tried the start of the Hahnenkamm and only made it 50 feet!"

Well injection is a whole different thing. It’s “safer” to carve it, but in one turn people would be well beyond their skill level to make the next one and it’s a slide for life or maybe self arrest. Probably best to have a sticky rubber jacket with spikes on it.

Start of the Streif is even a different level to that. I love the story by Bode the first time he raced it the guy before him crashed before the first gate and his helmet came off. On the radio they heard, “His head came off! His head came off!”

I know someone who used to teach at Vail and one year was a course slipper on Birds of Prey downhill course. He’s a very good skier. He said doing that was the most terrifying thing he’d done on skis.

@Primoz , do they inject Wengen way up near the start and the above tree line turns?

 

[PinnacleJim]

Back in 2002 I was in SLC right after the Olympics. Went to Snowbasin and the downhill course and finish was still mostly setup as the ParaOlympics was coming up the next week. To get to the start of the downhill you took a short tram to the top of this ledge. The operator was insistent that if you looked down and had second thoughts, you could ride the tram back down. I did ski it, but took muliple turns on the steep start pitch. I could see the racers bascially just tucking it. I see from the current trail map the tram is still there and the trail is called "Men's Start".

 

[doc]

I've been on the Birds of Prey course post-WC race. Lets just say I would have done a lot better with a pair of crampons on.

 

[dbostedo]

...and it’s a slide for life or maybe self arrest...

That's the part that would make me not try it if I got the chance. If I could just try one or two turns in an area where a slide would be safe, I'd like to do that (presumably any barriers or nets are still up when the public is allowed on the Hahnenkamm). Although I have some experience falling trying to turn on sheets of ice, and sliding to the bottom of a slope, already.

 

[Rudi Riet]

I've been on the Birds of Prey course post-WC race. Lets just say I would have done a lot better with a pair of crampons on.

When I worked at the 2001 World Cups at Snowbasin and the 2002 Winter Olympic speed events, I tracked over the injected surface just fine because I'd raced on boilerplate before and kept my edges tuned sharp. Many of the locals who were working there had a... ahem... "powder tune" and were slipping and sliding all over the place.

During the women's combined slalom I was called in to help with the course maintenance crew when one member injured herself. The reason I was chosen is because I knew how to navigate an injected snow surface quickly on skis (in this case 206cm GS skis) without any issues and carrying multiple tools (rake and shovel). I had to move quickly, and all of my colleagues on the same task had crampons to make for easy running out and back. Me? I had to skate out and skate back. It worked, but it was awkward.

And I've skied Birds of Prey not long after the World Cups. The injected surface calls for solid skills and sharp edges.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I would pay to see that! It would be very entertaining. Didier Cuche had a rough time on those old wooden skis when he retired. Not sure he would’ve made the whole course.

Here:




Fixed that for ya

 

[Rudi Riet]

Back in 2002 I was in SLC right after the Olympics. Went to Snowbasin and the downhill course and finish was still mostly setup as the ParaOlympics was coming up the next week. To get to the start of the downhill you took a short tram to the top of this ledge.... I did ski it, but took muliple turns on the steep start pitch. I could see the racers bascially just tucking it.

Yup: basically three big sweeping turns done in a tuck on that upper pitch. The seasoned World Cup athletes hit 60mph well before the bottom of the pitch. Leaving that start was quite the drop!

 

[4ster]

I have some vivid memories from this week...

 

[James]

Back in 2002 I was in SLC right after the Olympics. Went to Snowbasin and the downhill course and finish was still mostly setup as the ParaOlympics was coming up the next week. To get to the start of the downhill you took a short tram to the top of this ledge. The operator was insistent that if you looked down and had second thoughts, you could ride the tram back down. I did ski it, but took muliple turns on the steep start pitch. I could see the racers bascially just tucking it. I see from the current trail map the tram is still there and the trail is called "Men's Start".

We skied that with Bob Peters in 2003. He’d been a course worker for the Olympics. That upper part we couldn’t see a damn thing. We somehow made it through the mogul field there.
That final pitch is impressive. Hell, I wouldn’t tuck it from a standstill and they’re hitting it at 60+.
When we were there the final pitch was also covered with moguls. That was an epic low snow year, at least till the end of January when we skied. Everyone was complaining. I thought it was pretty good, but my VT standards were low.
We heard that a few weeks after we were there, they had a dump and set off some charges on that final slope. The whole thing slid, and the moguls were piled up at the bottom like, “a bunch of refrigerators” I heard.
So it’s a steep finish.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Yup, the finish pitches for both Grizzly (men's) and Wildflower (women's) are steep. The Grizzly finish is a bit more sustained, but both are a gas to straight run when they are groomed and you're on skis that are up to the task (read: a FIS GS ski or better, no mid-fats). The one thing that was better about those runs during race time is they were kept in prime condition so the risk of catching an edge on slough snow was minimal. Without the injection and prime preparation it's really easy to go down hard at speed on those runs - not pretty.

 

[dbostedo]

So it’s a steep finish.

35 degrees peak with a lot of the bottom section in the mid-to-high 20's.

 

[geepers]

Yup, the finish pitches for both Grizzly (men's) and Wildflower (women's) are steep. The Grizzly finish is a bit more sustained, but both are a gas to straight run when they are groomed and you're on skis that are up to the task (read: a FIS GS ski or better, no mid-fats). The one thing that was better about those runs during race time is they were kept in prime condition so the risk of catching an edge on slough snow was minimal. Without the injection and prime preparation it's really easy to go down hard at speed on those runs - not pretty.

 

[dbostedo]

What a strange camera position/angle. They should have just used a GoPro.

 

[Rudi Riet]

What a strange camera position/angle. They should have just used a GoPro.

In 2002? That's pre-GoPro.

 

[dbostedo]

In 2002? That's pre-GoPro.

Hence the tongue-sticking-out emoji

 

[Rudi Riet]

That fall-away before the Bear Trap jump is one of many sidehills that were injected on the Grizzly course - and one area where the "powder tune" had local volunteers sliding down toward the A-netting. And to wit: injected snow is quite pliable as long as you use good technique and have properly tuned edges. It's more pliable and more consistent than solid sub-zero ice, which is why it's loved at the World Cup level.

And some women's venues inject - including Killington. It's just that it's not as ubiquitous on the women's World Cup tour than it is on the men's tour.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Hence the tongue-sticking-out emoji

All I can say is that setup used by Doug Lewis would not be fun if he crashed.