'Women' to replace 'Ladies' in FIS terminology

[Tricia]

FIS is making the move to change the word 'Ladies' to 'Women' for Cross-Country and Alpine Skiing, as well as the Athletes Commission to change the official FIS terminology. This will be only for the English language.

From my perspective, this had never been terminology on my radar until it was brought up by @Monique a while back.
I mean, my mom told us to act like a lady when we were growing up and you often hear an announcer say "ladies and gentleman".
But FIS has heard the voices of women who take offense to the word "ladies" and is making a change.

See the story on the FIS website here

 

[Analisa]

I know this sort of news provokes a lot of questions along the lines of "what difference does it make?" and the words themselves won't drastically change women's skiing. But the fact that organizing bodies are considering, respecting, and listening to their female athletes will absolutely make a difference in women's sport.

 

[Monique]

FIS is making the move to change the word 'Ladies' to 'Women' for Cross-Country and Alpine Skiing, as well as the Athletes Commission to change the official FIS terminology. This will be only for the English language.

From my perspective, this had never been terminology on my radar until it was brought up by @Monique a while back.
I mean, my mom told us to act like a lady when we were growing up and you often hear an announcer say "ladies and gentleman".
But FIS has heard the voices of women who take offense to the word "ladies" and is making a change.

See the story on the FIS website here

To me, it seems like a good change. If their men's division were called "Gentlemen's," I would just see them both as weird relics ;-)

I like it because to me, saying something is a "lady's" division implies that there are different behavior standards for female athletes than for male athletes. There was a lot made of Serena Williams' penalties a bit ago, when there are some male tennis players known for doing a lot worse. I don't follow any of these sports closely enough to have a well-informed opinion, but I do think it's good to put terminology on equal footing.

 

[Tricia]

To me, it seems like a good change. If their men's division were called "Gentlemen's," I would just see them both as weird relics ;-)

I like it because to me, saying something is a "lady's" division implies that there are different behavior standards for female athletes than for male athletes. There was a lot made of Serena Williams' penalties a bit ago, when there are some male tennis players known for doing a lot worse. I don't follow any of these sports closely enough to have a well-informed opinion, but I do think it's good to put terminology on equal footing.

I am happy that FIS is paying attention and making the change, but my perception of the term Ladies still doesn't resonate as diminishing toward women. Perhaps its an age thing, or maybe its just a difference in culture where I was born and raised. I also appreciate that we all think differently which is why this world is so interesting.

Either way, I am happy that FIS is paying attention.

 

[Bill Talbot]

Seems like semantics. And why only for the English language?
What will they do if the PC trend that is destroying women's sports at lower levels, that of trans men, start competing with them?
Then what?

 

[Tricia]

Seems like semantics. And why only for the English language?
What will they do if the PC trend that is destroying women's sports at lower levels, that of trans men, start competing with them?
Then what?

I feel like I agree with you more than not on the semantics thing, but I respect that there are different ideas about this.

And... please for the love of "no hot topics" don't go down the trans path in this thread.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I do not view the term “ladies” as setting different standards for men and women.
I do not see a huge difference in the terminology.

I think the term “women’s” is used in the Olympics. Women’s dowhill, etc. comes to mind but I am not sure.

 

[Analisa]

Seems like semantics.

It is semantics, but it matters. Take, for example, people who go by a nickname. Some might use their nickname & their full name interchangeably, but some really hate their legal name and greatly prefer their nickname. If a person in your office stated their preference several times about how they preferred "Sam" to "Samuel," it would be pretty rude to keep calling them by the latter. This group of female athletes is making the same kind of request.

Some people prefer "ladies" over "women." As several women here have mentioned above, some use them both interchangeably. But when a critical mass of female athletes have said "please stop calling me that," it's disrespectful to ignore it.

 

[Jilly]

I agree semantics, but I think it's more a translation thing as well. Ladies does't really translate in other languages unless you know it is also women's.

 

[Chris Walker]

Now if the announcers can just stop calling them "girls."

 

[Monique]

I feel like I agree with you more than not on the semantics thing, but I respect that there are different ideas about this.

And... please for the love of "no hot topics" don't go down the trans path in this thread.

I dunno if either of these sentences were directed at me. I tried to be as milquetoast as possible so that I wouldn't rile anyone up, and I hadn't even been thinking about the issue of trans athletes, which is a really complicated matter that frankly I don't think any of the pugski members are qualified to talk about (myself included). Your comments seem to suggest that you already have your dukes up and are ready to spar. Because some members of this community have deeply polarized views of gender issues, and it always seems to turn into a shit show, and the mods always come through on one side of it, perhaps these topics aren't good fodder for the site.

 

[Bill Talbot]

It is semantics, but it matters. Take, for example, people who go by a nickname. Some might use their nickname & their full name interchangeably, but some really hate their legal name and greatly prefer their nickname. If a person in your office stated their preference several times about how they preferred "Sam" to "Samuel," it would be pretty rude to keep calling them by the latter. This group of female athletes is making the same kind of request.

Some people prefer "ladies" over "women." As several women here have mentioned above, some use them both interchangeably. But when a critical mass of female athletes have said "please stop calling me that," it's disrespectful to ignore it.

"What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
by any other name would smell as sweet"

 

[Bill Talbot]

To me, it seems like a good change. If their men's division were called "Gentlemen's," I would just see them both as weird relics ;-)

I like it because to me, saying something is a "lady's" division implies that there are different behavior standards for female athletes than for male athletes. There was a lot made of Serena Williams' penalties a bit ago, when there are some male tennis players known for doing a lot worse. I don't follow any of these sports closely enough to have a well-informed opinion, but I do think it's good to put terminology on equal footing.

So you would like the women to have the opportunity to behave more like the men?

Seems like a step in the wrong direction. Equality to misbehave? How about we make the men toe the line?
Ladies is a sub set of women. And while all ladies are certainly women, all women are not ladies. If the terms 'Ladies and Gentlemen' are as you say relics, than we are heading the wrong way in our culture.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@Bill Talbot. you think the right way in our culture is to start threads with titles such as this one of yours?
T.I.T.S. (Tuesdays In The Snow)

 

[Bill Talbot]

@Bill Talbot. you think the right way in our culture is to start threads with titles such as this one of yours?
T.I.T.S. (Tuesdays In The Snow)

Only if you ski on Tuesdays...
For the record it was the follow on thread from a prior season. Tuesdays are the best day to ski.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Please let's not go all men vs women. There is nothing wrong with either the term ladies or gentlemen. It is, and has always been a cultural reference to polite, social behavior. Neither is there anything wrong with the terms men and women, male and female, or boys and girls (generally a younger age group). If the female athletes prefer women to ladies then that is their prerogative and I am glad that FIS is responding respectfully.

 

[Sibhusky]

It's bothered me a bit for years, this ladies vs women thing on the FIS site. I've always figured it was a translation issue, but if they are calling the male gender "men" and not "gentlemen", then the equivalent for females is "women". To have them different invites the issue of "Why are they being referred to differently". I'm glad they've fixed it.

 

[James]

Now if the announcers can just stop calling them "girls."

Which announcers?
You only have to go about a minute into this video to hear it used several times by Fox Soccer Tonight host Kate Abdo and guest actor Sophia Bush with two former USWNT athletes, Christie Rampone and Leslie Osborne.

Plus Lindsey, Mikaela etc all use it. It's too much work to go find it.

https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/video/1538141251913

 

[Tricia]

I dunno if either of these sentences were directed at me. I tried to be as milquetoast as possible so that I wouldn't rile anyone up, and I hadn't even been thinking about the issue of trans athletes, which is a really complicated matter that frankly I don't think any of the pugski members are qualified to talk about (myself included). Your comments seem to suggest that you already have your dukes up and are ready to spar. Because some members of this community have deeply polarized views of gender issues, and it always seems to turn into a shit show, and the mods always come through on one side of it, perhaps these topics aren't good fodder for the site.

You must have missed the person I quoted from the quote above. NO it was not directed at you and your assumption that it was is quite a leap.

 

[Tricia]

Only if you ski on Tuesdays...
For the record it was the follow on thread from a prior season. Tuesdays are the best day to ski.

Ironically, the T.i.T.S acronym started with @SkiNurse, a female from the Colorado Crew that is comprised of as many women as men on most days, because Tuesdays in The Snow are the