• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

World Cup & Ski Brand - Does it simply boil down to the manufacturers budget?

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,391
Location
Sweden
The most glaringly obvious example for Hirscher "back in the day" was his Marker piston plates and bindings that were painted to look more like something Atomic would make. Atomic eventually made their own version of the binding (if not the plate) that's now used by most of their tech athletes (the speed folk still use the X/NEOX based binding).

And it still happens within brands. Anybody keeping an eagle eye on Monday's women's SG at Garmisch may have noticed Marta Bassino (who races on Salomon) competing on a "reskinned" Atomic Redster SG DoubleDeck ski. It's been re-branded to look like a Salomon ski - even down to having the Atomic logo cut out of the base at the tip of the ski and a Salomon logo grafted into its place - but it's the old Atomic race ski through and through. You'll see this in a lot of Salomon racing skis - and even some of the Atomic race skis using the older DoubleDeck material (USST recently posted a picture with Shiffrin standing next to GS skis that have the current Redster graphics but were clearly older DoubleDeck skis).

Salomon and Atomic the same company though, like Rossi and Dynastar. I have Salomons that are ”made in Austria”.
 

Rudi Riet

AKA songfta AKA randomduck - a USSS coach, as well
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
2,462
Location
Washington, DC
Salomon and Atomic the same company though, like Rossi and Dynastar. I have Salomons that are ”made in Austria”.

Yup, both part of Amer Group. There's a lot of material that flows from the Atomic race room to Salomon, I'm sure.
 

Ivan

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Posts
479
Location
Binghamton, NY
And it still happens within brands. Anybody keeping an eagle eye on Monday's women's SG at Garmisch may have noticed Marta Bassino (who races on Salomon) competing on a "reskinned" Atomic Redster SG DoubleDeck ski.
Salomon also had DoubleDeck SG skis. A lot of people here have said that Rossi/Dynastar race skis (and Rossi/Lange boots) are identical to each other. I would guess the same may be true for Atomic/Salomon skis (don't know about the boots though). Atomic is for the Austrians, Salomon is for the French :) There are some exceptions like Reichelt, but they are very rare.

Remember last year when the fandom here was "shocked" that Alexis Pinturault's white boots were NOT built by Head, but rather by the other white boot company, whose sister blue boots produced great success for him. They had nice Head graphics, had a great deal of cosmetic work done, but when still photos were taken in the right light, pretty obvious what they are.
I think this is still the case. Several high-profile Head-sponsored tech skiers are still using boots that look nowhere like Head. Pintu, Holdener, ASL... The list probably goes on, but I haven't looked very closely.
 
Last edited:

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,483
Location
Slovenia, Europe
The most glaringly obvious example for Hirscher "back in the day" was his Marker piston plates and bindings that were painted to look more like something Atomic would make. Atomic eventually made their own version of the binding (if not the plate) that's now used by most of their tech athletes (the speed folk still use the X/NEOX based binding).
Well not really ;) All tech skiers on Atomic and Salomon are still on Marker bindings. Their servicemen try to collect every possible old Marker bindings they can find, then they send them to company where they try to make them look like Atomic/Salomon version. This might work from far, but from close it's really really bad job.

As for @Muleski and Maze... well... yes and no. She and her team to aMaze didn't really spent whole budget of ski federation, but they did got more then 25% of alpine budget every year, but it didn't stop them to complain they get no support from ski federation whenever they had chance to complain, and even then when they didn't have it. And 25% of budget is pretty big deal, as that's not 25% of budget for World cup team, but 25% of complete budget. That includes World cup team, B team, C team, junior team, kids teams and all kids and clubs programs that get money from ski federation. Luckily in Slovenian ski federation, each discipline has its own budget, so it didn't influence nordic, snowboard, biathlon... parts, but alpine was struggling. Sure there wasn't anyone near Maze's quality, but it's not really surprise, that once Maze quit all of a sudden we got quite few good skiers, who were struggling to get into points by then, and in few months time, they converted from being possible qualifiers for second run, to being regular top 10, or even 2 times World champions. So most of people around skiing, regardless of nationality, are not so thrilled with Maze and Massi. General public on the other side is amazed and still thinks Massi is best coach in skiing ever. Maybe he is, but if he would be, he would probably still be in skiing instead of teaching sports classes in high school. But then again, what do I know. Maybe he wants to be school gym teacher, even though with his ego problems I slightly doubt about that, but people change :)
 

Ivan

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Posts
479
Location
Binghamton, NY
Every top Austrian {like the very best} is going to be "on Atomic" at least in the eyes of the public, as Atomic IS Austrian skiing.
I've thought more about this, and I think this applies not only to Atomic. I don't know if this is just my confirmation bias, but it seems that there is a link between the country of origin of a manufacturer and the nationalities of the athletes it sponsors. Probably this link goes both ways: manufacturers may be trying to sign best athletes from their home countries for the purposes of marketing, while athletes are likely to use skis from their "home" manufacturers growing up (more local reps, club sponsorships, etc.).

Of course, there are some exceptions, like Head, who are going after many top skiers (especially in speed disciplines), regardless of nationality: Norwegians (Jansrud and Svindal), Austrians (Maier late in his career, Mayer, Fenninger-Veith), American (Miller, Ligety), French (Pintu, Clarey), Swiss (Cuche), etc. But other than Head, I think the trend is pretty clear.

As @Muleski said, top Austrians are almost always on Atomic (unless Head outbids them): Eberharter, Walchofer, Maier (most of his career), Raich, Scield, Zettel, Schwarz, Feller, Hirscher, etc. Well, not necessarily on Atomic-built skis/boots, but at least Atomic-branded. If they are neither on Head nor on Atomic, they are most likely on Fischer: Franz (he was on Atomic before), Schmidhofer, Siebenhofer, Kriechmayr (before he switched to Head), etc. I should note that Fischer is also actively involved in cross-country skiing and ski jumping, which may explain why their alpine budget may be somewhat limited and why they sometimes lose their top athletes.

There used to be Austrians on Blizzard, too: Hirscher early in his career and Mario Matt, but it seems that Blizzard has greatly reduced its involvement in racing. There are some Austrians on Salomon, but they are mostly lower-profile. One notable exception is Reichelt, but he is old and might have started using Salomon long time ago. Another notable name is Fritz Strobl, but it was long ago. Finally, there are some "odd" cases, like Liensberger and Michael Matt on Lange/Rossi, but they are very rare.

Next, as far as France goes, top French skiers are usually on French skis (unless they are on Head). Grange has been using Rossi for a long time (except for one season when he switched to Fischer), Worley has been on Rossi forever, Lizeroux was on Dynastar and then Salomon (with one season on Fischer in between), Muffat-Jeandet is on Salomon, Noel is on Dynastar. Even Pintu, who has been on Head for a while, started his career on Dynastar and then switched to Salomon, both French brands. In fact, while Rossi and Salomon have athletes from other countries, Dynastar almost exclusively focuses on the French skiers. One notable exception among the French was Thomas Fanara on Fischer. I can't remember anyone on Atomic, though: I would guess it is easier/better to give a French skier "French" skis (even if they are made in Austria) from the same "family" (Amer Sports).

Nordica has greatly reduced its World Cup presence, but its two top athletes are Italian: Paris and Vinatzer. As far as Volkl goes, I don't even know how to count them (Volklis a German brand, but Dalbello is Italian), but they sponsor relatively few athletes, too.

Overall, though, I think the picture is pretty clear: if there is a major brand/brands is a given country, a large number of athletes from that country is likely to be sponsored by it/them.

On a separate note, there are certainly interesting cases out there. Odermatt is on Stockli skis (makes sense, as both are Swiss) but in Salomon boots. Not quite sure how his contract with Salomon works and why they are OK with supplying boots only. Liensberger wanted to use Kastle skis (again, makes sense, as both are Austrian) but wasn't allowed to. Luke Winters recently switched rom Rossi to Dynastar, which is somewhat unusual (I cannot think of many cases of switching from one brand within the same group to another). Finally, though Rossi and Lange boots are presumably identical, there are quite a few athletes on Rossi skis but in Lange boots. Presumably Rossi would want them to be in Rossi boots (as Rossignol is the "main" brand), but it does not happen. Liensberger and Michael Matt (already mentioned above), Brignone, Defago in the past.

Sorry if the post is too long... I just thought the link between the countries of athletes/manufacturers was worth emphasizing.
 
Last edited:

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,455
Isn’t Blizzard getting out of making race skis? At least in the US. They’ll just be Nordica.
 

Ivan

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Posts
479
Location
Binghamton, NY
Isn’t Blizzard getting out of making race skis? At least in the US. They’ll just be Nordica.
I believe you are correct that they have withdrawn from the US race market, but in Europe, they still make race skis. See this pic, for instance:

However, it is certainly true that they have greatly reduced their involvement in ski racing, at least at the highest level. According to the brand standings on the FIS website, they have not scored any World Cup points this season and only scored 140 points last season.
 

CascadeConcrete

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Feb 29, 2020
Posts
333
Location
Seattle
Finally, though Rossi and Lange boots are presumably identical, there are quite a few athletes on Rossi skis but in Lange boots. Presumably Rossi would want them to be in Rossi boots (as Rossignol is the "main" brand), but it does not happen.

I could be wrong here, but I doubt Rossi cares much which color scheme of boot they sell, just so long as you buy one of the two. I'd actually argue that Lange is the flagship brand for boots. You see way more non-sponsored skiers, both racers and all mountain, in blue Langes than white Rossi's. Lange has fantastic brand recognition/reputation among skiers.
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
I've thought more about this, and I think this applies not only to Atomic. I don't know if this is just my confirmation bias, but it seems that there is a link between the country of origin of a manufacturer and the nationalities of the athletes it sponsors. Probably this link goes both ways: manufacturers may be trying to sign best athletes from their home countries for the purposes of marketing, while athletes are likely to use skis from their "home" manufacturers growing up (more local reps, club sponsorships, etc.).

Of course, there are some exceptions, like Head, who are going after many top skiers (especially in speed disciplines), regardless of nationality: Norwegians (Jansrud and Svindal), Austrians (Maier late in his career, Mayer, Fenninger-Veith), American (Miller, Ligety), French (Pintu, Clarey), Swiss (Cuche), etc. But other than Head, I think the trend is pretty clear.

As @Muleski said, top Austrians are almost always on Atomic (unless Head outbids them): Eberharter, Walchofer, Maier (most of his career), Raich, Scield, Zettel, Schwarz, Feller, Hirscher, etc. Well, not necessarily on Atomic-built skis/boots, but at least Atomic-branded. If they are neither on Head nor on Atomic, they are most likely on Fischer: Franz (he was on Atomic before), Schmidhofer, Siebenhofer, Kriechmayr (before he switched to Head), etc. I should note that Fischer is also actively involved in cross-country skiing and ski jumping, which may explain why their alpine budget may be somewhat limited and why they sometimes lose their top athletes.

There used to be Austrians on Blizzard, too: Hirscher early in his career and Mario Matt, but it seems that Blizzard has greatly reduced its involvement in racing. There are some Austrians on Salomon, but they are mostly lower-profile. One notable exception is Reichelt, but he is old and might have started using Salomon long time ago. Another notable name is Fritz Strobl, but it was long ago. Finally, there are some "odd" cases, like Liensberger and Michael Matt on Lange/Rossi, but they are very rare.

Next, as far as France goes, top French skiers are usually on French skis (unless they are on Head). Grange has been using Rossi for a long time (except for one season when he switched to Fischer), Worley has been on Rossi forever, Lizeroux was on Dynastar and then Salomon (with one season on Fischer in between), Muffat-Jeandet is on Salomon, Noel is on Dynastar. Even Pintu, who has been on Head for a while, started his career on Dynastar and then switched to Salomon, both French brands. In fact, while Rossi and Salomon have athletes from other countries, Dynastar almost exclusively focuses on the French skiers. One notable exception among the French was Thomas Fanara on Fischer. I can't remember anyone on Atomic, though: I would guess it is easier/better to give a French skier "French" skis (even if they are made in Austria) from the same "family" (Amer Sports).

Nordica has greatly reduced its World Cup presence, but its two top athletes are Italian: Paris and Vinatzer. As far as Völkl goes, I don't even know how to count them (Volklis a German brand, but Dalbello is Italian), but they sponsor relatively few athletes, too.

Overall, though, I think the picture is pretty clear: if there is a major brand/brands is a given country, a large number of athletes from that country is likely to be sponsored by it/them.

On a separate note, there are certainly interesting cases out there. Odermatt is on Stöckli skis (makes sense, as both are Swiss) but in Salomon boots. Not quite sure how his contract with Salomon works and why they are OK with supplying boots only. Liensberger wanted to use Kästle skis (again, makes sense, as both are Austrian) but wasn't allowed to. Luke Winters recently switched rom Rossi to Dynastar, which is somewhat unusual (I cannot think of many cases of switching from one brand within the same group to another). Finally, though Rossi and Lange boots are presumably identical, there are quite a few athletes on Rossi skis but in Lange boots. Presumably Rossi would want them to be in Rossi boots (as Rossignol is the "main" brand), but it does not happen. Liensberger and Michael Matt (already mentioned above), Brignone, Defago in the past.

Sorry if the post is too long... I just thought the link between the countries of athletes/manufacturers was worth emphasizing.

The Odermatt connection to the Salomon boot is probably via Stockli which uses Salomon bindings across their ski line.
 

S.H.

USSA Coach
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
1,822
Location
New England --> CO
I believe you are correct that they have withdrawn from the US race market, but in Europe, they still make race skis. See this pic, for instance:

However, it is certainly true that they have greatly reduced their involvement in ski racing, at least at the highest level. According to the brand standings on the FIS website, they have not scored any World Cup points this season and only scored 140 points last season.
Tonetti has points this year, I'm sure. Pretty sure he was up the ranks at Alta Badia.

Blizzard has pulled out of the US race market, but ... if you look at high-level athletes, you can still find Blizzard (and Solomon, who has been out of the US race market for a while) on people's feet, so ...
 

Ivan

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Posts
479
Location
Binghamton, NY
Tonetti has points this year, I'm sure. Pretty sure he was up the ranks at Alta Badia.
Good catch. He indeed was in the points three times. It is a bit weird that the FIS website does not reflect those points.
 

Vicmoto

Booting up
Skier
Joined
May 15, 2020
Posts
35
Location
Barcelona
Any idea which brand are the Atomic G9 skis that can be seen in many WC GS races with a sticker on top instead of the Servotec gadget? Red Salomon? Atomic G9 without the servotec?it’s curious that Atomic does not try to “sell” this gadget in the commercial FIS SL skis but it does it in the standard S9.
Most probably that it is just a cosmetic gadget to sell skis...
 

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
Any idea which brand are the Atomic G9 skis that can be seen in many WC GS races with a sticker on top instead of the Servotec gadget? Red Salomon? Atomic G9 without the servotec?it’s curious that Atomic does not try to “sell” this gadget in the commercial FIS SL skis but it does it in the standard S9.
Most probably that it is just a cosmetic gadget to sell skis...
It's called Revoshock. For 2022, Atomic have put shock absorbing pieces inside the ski and ditched the exterior rod.
 

hbear

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
890
The Odermatt connection to the Salomon boot is probably via Stöckli which uses Salomon bindings across their ski line.
Pretty common for Stockli athletes to use any boot they want, more often than not that ends up being the blue one.
Know a few athletes that were thinking of moving to Stockli (to be in the Lange boot) but the support structure just isn't as prevelent as other brands.
 

pliny the elder

Industry Insider
Skier
Joined
May 28, 2019
Posts
159
Location
Somewhere good
The Lange boot is kind of like Switzerland. You can be on many different skis with a blue boot. It's not unusual to see athletes on several different brands of skis with blue boots.
You don't see Rossi boots on Fischer or Stockli, or Head (err, scratch that one). Just as you don't see Salomon boots on Nordica skis.
Perhaps this is because the Dynastar brand has a smaller presence in racing and the boots happen to work well for a lot of athletes.

pliny the elder
 

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,483
Location
Slovenia, Europe
One thing is that Lange (even before Rossi connection) always had good boots. They might not be always best, but most of the time, they were pretty high up. But what matters more is, that noone will be giving you support for boots, unless you are skiing their skis. Every single other brand is ski brand. So there's no way you will get top Rossi/Nordica/Atomic/Salomon/Fischer boots and their service without being on their skis. So once you are on skis, that doesn't have boots in their program (Stoeckli) you are very very limited to what you can get, so Lange is logical choice. Even though Lange is now Rossi, it's still sort of available to others. Of course less then they are to Rossi/Dynastar racers, but you still get way more support from Lange, then you would from Rossi/Nordica/Atomic/Salomon/Fischer.
 

Atomicman

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
May 6, 2017
Posts
843
Servotec is gone in 2022, no? Pretty sure it's just an Atomic without the gadget.
I actually saw a pair last week at Mt. Bachelor. Ran into the Atomic rep. there.
GettyImages-1230612800-e1611663373831.jpg

It has Metal modules (I think 4 of them) embedded in the elastomer in the forebody of the ski, supposed to absorb lots of shock. they are already using it on the World Cup and disguising it by painting servotec on the skis. You can see it in this photo with the phony Servotec painted on!
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top