• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Goose

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Posts
1,311
I thought to put this in the general ski section since the Boot thread section seems to be much more specifically about fittings, latest models, etc. I thought this more of a general skiing topic. But any Mod please move if you feel its not appropriate.

I did search the forums for such a topic but came up with little. A different thread where it was mentioned sparked my curiosity and so here goes.

Anyone old enough remembers rear entry and probably used them while they did own something like 80% of sales for part or most a decade. From any info I collectively gather its demise came from the top racers and professionals most of whom were not a fan. But if not mistaken there were some who did use them from namely Solomon who at the time seemed to get it right. But like golf and or a number of other things the masses want what the pros are using whether or not its necessarily so much better for them or not or necessary . And so the rear entry boot candle burnt bright but fast (relatively speaking).

But just about anywhere you can find any info and opinions you also find so very many wishing they were still around. Imo most the general masses of recreational skiers do not ski anywhere near the level of pro racers. And even those recreational skiers of advanced and/or even expert abilities don't either. But at the time in the 80's when rear entries were the dominant choice, they worked and worked quite well for so many skiers of all abilities.

I understand the critics notion of a bit of a disconnect between foot and ski. But still tons of recreationals used them and tons of really good recreational skiers used them and did so successfully for years. Most (even if many were uneducated) loved the convenience of getting them on and off and also most found them more comfortable over all. And so....right, wrong, or indifferent, they worked , and they worked well for years for many skiers, and they were liked, and now (by very many) are still missed.

I know they worked for me back in my younger days. I charged hard in those boots many times on my old 205cm straights for very many years. In fact Im embarrassed to say just how long I still used them but it wasn't at all long ago.lol

But was it really necessary they stopped them? did egos simply take over? was it almost an injustice that they stopped producing them? manufacturers must have loved producing them when they were the newest hotcakes and right or wrong must have also loved going away from them again in order to then resell everyone out of them and into a new pair of 4buckles.

So very many still miss these boots, didn't really need more than them as they did work very well for a number of years and frankly people loved the comfort and convenience. So would they, could they return? would they sell? or would the pros have to use them in order to be accepted? With todays more modern tech and materials they should work even better than they did back then. And maybe they still would never be what the race pro truly wants but for most recreational players (even higher skilled ones) they would imo still work as good and probably even better than hey did when they worked for so many people back then.

What say you all?
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,768
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
My friend Tracey would sell her child to get a pair of these back (jk) but she so fondly speaks of them and if I ever could find her a working pair for a christmas present for her I'd buy them in a second.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,324
Location
The Bull City
^^^^ Ya, actually skiing anything that old is playing Russian Roulette with 4 bullets in a 6 shooter.The plastic would crack and break first time temps get below 20 degrees.

I think the Apex model will take off and be copied before we see a full blown rear entry traditional lug boot again. Stiff snowboard boots with step in bindings on today's wider skis would work fine for weekend easy run wonders who just want to be comfortable and take it easy enjoying the well groomed trails.
 

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,288
Might work for retro grouches but anyone with sanity wouldn't give up the control. I was reminded how bad they were about 15 years ago when I borrowed my dad's for a run. Never been so glad to get back to the lodge.
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
Industry Insider
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,602
Location
PNW aka SEA
Yeah... No. They went away for a reason. Many reasons come to think of it.
 

Doby Man

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Posts
406
Location
Mostly New England
Might work for retro grouches but anyone with sanity wouldn't give up the control. I was reminded how bad they were about 15 years ago when I borrowed my dad's for a run. Never been so glad to get back to the lodge.

I am completely insane and yet have never skied in a rear entry. I prefer the straight jacket set up all the way.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Goose

Goose

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Posts
1,311
^^^^ Ya, actually skiing anything that old is playing Russian Roulette with 4 bullets in a 6 shooter.The plastic would crack and break first time temps get below 20 degrees.

.
While this thread isn't about using old boots but simply if rears would could ever come back id like to add to your comment.... and imo it is an overrated one. I wouldn't promote/recommend the idea of 25+ yr olds boots because of the "possible" plastic issue. But to say its a sure bet to break the first sign of 20* temps is just not true. Its on overstatement. It can happen and people should be aware but its far a rare than a norm. If that was the case there would be/been tons of such incidences as very many have continued to use their old boots well after their time and in freezing temps. I was using mine (all 6'1 220lb of me) right up till a few years ago when I could finally afford new gear and get with the times.lol. And Ive seen (at those times through the years) more than enough still sporting them as well. Of course it became less and less but reverse the years just a few and there were many still in use yet still well past their time. Again, Im not promoting nor recommending it and frankly "why take the chance" but to say its a sure bet is just not the case.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,324
Location
The Bull City
While this thread isn't about using old boots but simply if rears would could ever come back id like to add to your comment.... and imo it is an overrated one. I wouldn't promote/recommend the idea of 25+ yr olds boots because of the "possible" plastic issue. But to say its a sure bet to break the first sign of 20* temps is just not true. Its on overstatement. It can happen and people should be aware but its far a rare than a norm. If that was the case there would be/been tons of such incidences as very many have continued to use their old boots well after their time and in freezing temps. I was using mine (all 6'1 220lb of me) right up till a few years ago when I could finally afford new gear and get with the times.lol. And Ive seen (at those times through the years) more than enough still sporting them as well. Of course it became less and less but reverse the years just a few and there were many still in use yet still well past their time. Again, Im not promoting nor recommending it and frankly "why take the chance" but to say its a sure bet is just not the case.
a056a6297b3ee2cb8687931a94ae82c2127c66c18ac13c283df9a80482396cdf.jpg


I guess it depends on how cold and how hard a person skis in them. I have a pair of mid 1980s Langes that I take out on Retro Day every other year or so. Been out there enough to notice that the rear entry boots seem to fail at a much higher rate than softer plastic buckle boots do.
 

WheatKing

Ice coast carveaholic
Skier
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Posts
258
Location
Ontario, Canada
I miss them.. only because it's a pain in the ass to get my foot into mid boots.The throat just isn't wide enough in most mid boots that actually would fit me to get my damn foot through without grinding the crap outta them (the boots not my feet.. although that's an idea). getting them off afterwords ain't no picnic either.. they might be ok for all you "normals" but it's the worst part of my skiing day.

Boots suck.. necessary evil.. but still suck. Gotta check out the full tilts some day.. until them i'm the guy contorting and swearing in the lodge or parking lot looking like he's trying to get boots that are too small onto his feet.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
Skier
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
10,893
Location
NJ
Manufactures will do a lot of things to sell more new boots. I think that was part of the move to rear entry boots the first time, it may be like a pendulum swinging back and forth maybe it is time for the manufactures to start the swing back to rear entry boots. They will put some new spin on why it is the "New Thinking" and the word smiths on Madison Avenue will try to get us to spend our cash.

I never owned a pair of rear entry boots I did get to try a friends Hanson boots but I could not get them off my feet fast enough. When others went to rear entry boots I was in three piece shell boots but that was just me. My wife did use a pair of rear entry Nordica boots and she did like them, but she was an Intermediate skier and never really pushed them. She could ski most boots because she has a low volume foot. Her first boots were a 5 buckle Nordica, next she had a 3 buckle Lange and her last pair before she giving up the sport was the Nordica rear entry boot. If new rear entry boots come back she will still not return to skiing.
 

SpikeDog

You want Big Air, kid?
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
823
Location
Wyoming
If there was a company making new rear entry boots, I'd take a serious look at them, read all the reviews, do some due diligence. I've got fond memories of my Salomon SX-70's. They weren't top of the line, but they were so much better than the cruel boots I'd had before. Easy to get out of in the coldest parking lot.

ski-boots-unisex-mens-size-11-11-5-womens-12-salomon-sx-70-made-in-france-04c6e4ed9478912eccaa9b5942ee9c4a.jpg
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,215
Location
Boston Suburbs
There were good rear entry designs and bad rear entry designs. Salomon had a patent on what worked. Their competitors dragged down the reputation of the whole idea with bad product, and later, sour grapes. At the end, Salomon messed up their design by combining the heel-hold-down and calf-closure levers into one. And some people's feet were a shape that just didn't work.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,215
Location
Boston Suburbs
People use booster straps to separate the function of support from the function of covering up your foot to keep snow out. Why is that a good idea at the top of the boot and a bad idea everywhere else?
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,788
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
My recollection of the demise of the rear entry boot is different from the OPs.

It was ski instructor associations that complained to boot manufactures that the rear entry boot restricted ankle flexion and would't allow the knees to get forward enough causing the skier to sit back too much. To my knowledge giving unified feedback to boot manufactures by ski instructors was unprecedented and therefore was listened to.
 

BMC

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Posts
778
There's definitely a market and stop stealing my business plan!!! ;)

I think the vast majority of skiers are casual skiers rather than committed ones. Of those, I reckon the majority would prioritise comfort and convenience over performance. I personally think around half of any rental fleet should be rear end boots, and there would be a relatively niche demand for retailing of rear end boots.

So (don't) go for it. Get the design for some of the better rear end boots from say Salomon. Set up manufacturing in China/through existing manufacturers. Add a fancy graphic, nice branding and s decent PR campaign and you'll be living like a Saudi Oil prince, minus the baggy clothes and head dress.
 

neonorchid

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Posts
6,686
Location
Mid-Atlantic
-
- I did get to try a friends Hanson boots but I could not get them off my feet fast enough. -
-
I owned two pairs of Hanson boots in the '70's. I went from the low cuff "intermediate" dark purple boot to the "advanced" high cuff orange boot. The last generation after those were terrible and a completely different boot then all prior models which had a bladder molded via injected wax. We had to keep a can of silicon spray in our boot bag to use when booting up. I'm not surprised someone else's boot didn't work for you.
 

Eleeski

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,287
Location
San Diego / skis at Squaw Valley
My old red Raichles rocked. The flex was determined by the shell and the pure red ones felt perfect. The cable clip setup held my foot in place and kept my heel down. The top clip gave a good feel. Some judicious use of padding gave a snug comfortable fit. Performance wise, they were as good as any boot I've used.

Raichle made some fantastic boots. The Flexon has been resurrected as Full Tilt. I'm skiing a Full Tilt boot now. I'd definitely try a modern version of the older rear entry boot.

Eric
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sponsor

Top