• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

You want to know what is going on in the US ski market? All you have to do is look at the...

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
43,390
Location
Reno, eNVy
US-Ski-Market-Look-At-Automotive-Industry-Slider-SkiTalk-Pugliese-Petersen.jpg

This thread is for the general discussion of the Article You want to know what is going on in the US ski market? All you have to do is look at the automotive industry.. Please add to the discussion here.
 

Tony Storaro

Glorified Tobogganer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Posts
7,882
Location
Europe
Excellent article, well done!

Now cue the outrage from the “Wide skis are more stable” crowd in 3…2…1 :roflmao:
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,584
So wide skis on icy conditions is the same fopah as narrow skis in powder.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,419
Location
NYC
So wide skis on icy conditions is the same fopah as narrow skis in powder.

Wide skis are never a faux pas. They are always cool. Even when you are in the midst of a slide for slide of death. Just keep the screaming low enough so other are not disturbed.

OTOH, Skinny sticks in powder falls under the "It didn't happened if you didn't see it." category. The skiiny sticks should be hidden under all the fresh.

Now cue the outrage from the “Wide skis are more stable” crowd in 3…2…1 :roflmao:

Only more stable if one has lateral balance issues. :ogcool:
 

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,451
Bit one dimensional ( literally). There are far more lessons to take from the auto industry like the race to premiumisation, the idea that your skis are a reflection of you as a person rather than a tool, artificial churn aided and abetted by all media and the lack of a "big thing" to move things on like battery tech in auto.
 

RickyG

Faction Fan
Contributor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Posts
293
Location
Littleton Colorado
OK, I've been known to say this in public, "I will not ride a truck, I will not drive a truck, and I will not ski on a truck". Automotively the Glesner family ski mobile is a 2001 Audi A4 Avant quattro. My bike (which I went over 18K miles this summer) is a 2000 model year Trek Postie Tour Win team replica 431 out of 1999. Ski wise I've been on Faction Dictator 1.0 and the Dictator FG. Next year I'll be on a Dancer 1 in a 170. The biggest problem I see with Colorado front range skier purchasing choices are very limited to things that would be best of a powder day. On that powder day thought, is there anyone on this site over the age of 40 that didn't ski powder on a long skinny waist ski and did just fine?
_DSC2871.JPG
IMG_4754.JPG
IMG_4755.JPG
 
Last edited by a moderator:

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
22,375
Location
Lukey's boat
Bit one dimensional ( literally). There are far more lessons to take from the auto industry like the race to premiumisation, the idea that your skis are a reflection of you as a person rather than a tool,

I don't think that distinction needs to be made, really. I mean, one can prove they're a tool in the lift line so easily now...

 

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
1,252
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
is there anyone on this site over the age of 40 that didn't ski powder on a long skinny waist ski and did just fine?
:yahoo:


The biggest problem I see with Colorado front range skier purchasing choices are very limited to things that would be best of a powder day.
I book ski trips to the Rockies months in advance and ski what that date gives me. From Telluride to Revelstoke I've skied many more old snow days than new snow days.
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,584
is there anyone on this site over the age of 40 that didn't ski powder on a long skinny waist ski and did just fine?

That was then. I'm not sure I'd take that bet now.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,968
Location
Front Range, Colorado
No, don't buy it - that article, I mean. Smug stuff.
Most folks have one ski quivers, and limited outings. They buy what they want from experience and it suits them, fairly often,
at least in Colorado.

Yeah, most folks might be better off without the 4 wheel drive huge high clearance vehicles.
Especially in flat land cities.

But not here for skiers in the Rockies, or folks who live in the mountains up north and/or out west:
that medium Nissan 4 wheeler SUV has saved my butt many times,
made driving to ski possible the large number of times I've done it, with many skis on board.
And the bigger SUVs make things safer and better for full sized families in ski country, as long as no rail system works.

Bottom line, to me it's legit for a good young (or old) skier to pick a 96 to 112 ski for a one ski quiver, especially out west.
And to get an even wider ski if they have a quiver of two or more.

In my experience, one has to build up, in terms of conditioning, to fat skis, as much as to cross country running.
(At least I do.)
Lots of folks manage to get in shape for both, sure seems like.

P.S. I keep track of conditions on ski days. Consistently, one third of my days are on soft snow powder days of some kind, here in Colorado.
(Not counting "dust" days up to an inch.) That's enough for my second ski to be for soft.

(Yeah, and I skied my GS and SL straight skis in powder too.)

Sorry. :crossfingers:
 
Last edited:

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
22,375
Location
Lukey's boat
Most folks have one ski quivers, and limited outings. They buy what they want from experience and it suits them, fairly often,
at least in Colorado.

One of the arguments that's seldom made is "What is the per-day cost of changing?".

I mean, even with perfect conditioning, changing dimensions to optimise incurs either a rental cost or a carriage and maintenance cost.
 

Paul Lutes

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Posts
2,800
No, don't buy it - that article, I mean. Smug stuff.
Most folks have one ski quivers, and limited outings. They buy what they want from experience and it suits them, fairly often,
at least in Colorado.

Yeah, most folks might be better off without the 4 wheel drive huge high clearance vehicles.
Especially in flat land cities.

But not here for skiers in the Rockies, or folks who live in the mountains up north and/or out west:
that medium Nissan 4 wheeler SUV has saved my butt many times,
made driving to ski possible the large number of times I've done it, with many skis on board.
And the bigger SUVs make things safer and better for full sized families in ski country, as long as no rail system works.

Bottom line, to me it's legit for a good young (or old) skier to pick a 96 to 112 ski for a one ski quiver, especially out west.
And to get an even wider ski if they have a quiver of two or more.

In my experience, one has to build up, in terms of conditioning, to fat skis, as much as to cross country running.
(At least I do.)
Lots of folks manage to get in shape for both, sure seems like.

P.S. I keep track of conditions on ski days. Consistently, one third of my days are on soft snow powder days of some kind, here in Colorado.
(Not counting "dust" days up to an inch.) That's enough for my second ski to be for soft.

(Yeah, and I skied my GS and SL straight skis in powder too.)

Sorry. :crossfingers:
Well ....
1. From your posting history and content , it sounds like you can pretty much chose to avoid the the nasty hard snow/icy days (not a criticism - we should all be so lucky); recommend looking at actually number of hard snow days vs soft/fresh snow days a any given location, regardless of you having skis on snow. If you are indeed with such a place that actually has a preponderance of soft snow days - absolutely go wider. Pretty sure that's rare.
2. Doesn't matter how many of us skied powder with skinny skis - there were no other options. I would never, ever chose to ski fresh powder with anything less than 90 mm now, but the need has only come up ONCE in the last 5 years.
3. Smug???
Naaaaw; just the emperor has no clothes. Is the emperor/empress happy naked? Sure, because they only hear sycophants/salespeeps telling them that they are perfect presented.
4. Out west??? What do you mean "we" kemo sabe??
While I'm not a Rockies native, I haven't skied significant fresh powder in the Rockies in almost 40 years (probably 2+ months of total skiing); and in California ( my home stomping ground) firm snow days outnumber fresh powder at least 5 to 1.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,968
Location
Front Range, Colorado
Gee, no one standing up for wider skis? Bummer.

Well, bless you, good sir, @Paul Lutes! :huh:

Odd assumptions, @ Paul Lutes. Lots of weird detail about my skiing and Colorado skiing, warped. Please don't do that.

30 to 35% is not "a preponderance of soft snow days;" it's about a third. And with my luck, I miss at least a third to 50% or more at least, of the soft snow/powder days available (3" plus days), unfortunately. (For the Black Ops 118 and other fat skis, 3 inches plus is enough to give lift, float and powder drift/moves - one of the bonuses of fat skis, by the way.)

Out of around 238 total days at A Basin, last season, for example, I think I was told that A Basin got over 75 soft snow days last season and counting, not sure. And lately it's been the weekends that were favored, especially Saturdays.

I'm usually first chair or close on the days I catch, by the way: better snow for fat skis. Care to join us?

No, I don't avoid nasty hard or icy snow, but rather relish it. (I have FIS 188/30 FIS GS skis and FIS SL skis for that, usually - but other skis that cut through ice also.) There are lots of such days, and I don't go out of my way to avoid or catch those days - just bring the right skis for that, if that's pending. On the other hand, I wouldn't take road trips for hardpan/ice either. (Or ski icy big mogul fields, at my age.)

No tricks to catch soft days. God willing, for me it's every other day in Colorado, varied just a bit to catch soft snow days slightly more.
The last third of the season I'll vary it even more, lately, sometimes do two days in a row (but not often);
and have gone from about 30% soft snow days to 35% soft snow days as a result.

(Embarrassing, but I keep a calendar recording snow days: 28 to 35% each season over the past dozen years plus, here on the Front Range skiing - Copper Mountain, Winter Park, A Basin, Loveland, Keystone, and occasionally Beaver Creek, Breck and Vail. Three to four days a week, roughly, gets me 30 to 40 soft snow days - dependably.)



Yeah, I'm not typical; and I got a quiver. We got skis in each category, all shapes and sizes, demo as many as possible, all widths.
And love the FIS SL and FIS GS woman's. Love Bonafides and Kendos, Blossoms and Stocklis some. And love the fat big mountain chargers, and powder/crud fatties. Both. ~ 65 to 122 widths.

Most of the skis we like best are outside the narrow range that sells for one ski quiver weekend warriors and families.
Both narrower and wider. For me the biggest revelations have been how wonderful both current race skis and soft snow skis are these days, powder/crud skis that handle fresh snow as well as race skis handle groomers. Gad, it's been Seth Morrison and Sean Pettit, Dana Flahr and Sage Cattabriga-Alosa, even Candide Thovex thanks to @GregK , who have been my skiing inspirations, as much as Bode Miller, Ted Ligety, Marcel Hirscher, Lindsey Vonn and Mikaela Shiffrin, more recently. (And also, a bunch of the folks I've skied with - first chair people all the way!).

I'm just saying fatter skis can be good choices too, for many!
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
43,390
Location
Reno, eNVy
Odd assumptions, @ Paul Lutes. Lots of weird detail about my skiing and Colorado skiing, warped. Please don't do that.
and assumptions that people aren't in shape to ski fat skis...
In my experience, one has to build up, in terms of conditioning, to fat skis...
Please don't do it either. ;)

This is not just a west thing. 90mm+ skis are also being pushed in the east and midwest, skis much wider than the conditions warrant. I would love to have seasons that I never wanted to be on a narrower ski, a season where my skis were in the snow more than on it but in reality, it is the exception and not the rule.

Yeah, I'm not typical...
No, you are not and quite frankly, this article wasn't directed to or at you but the Joe and Jane Skier that might get out 5-10 times a year and the odds they will need a 100 mm wide ski are aspirational.
 

Sponsor

Top