GS sets changing/becoming tighter?

[freehlr360]

I was discussing the topic of GS radius and course sets with a coach from Rocky Central. It sounds like they are starting to decrease distances down to like 18m (can’t remember but think that was u14) to try and get athletes down to a 2 second GS turn? Anyone else hear this?

 

[nnowak]

USSS stipulates 15-22m for U12 and below, 15-25m for U14, and 15-27m for U16 and above. By itself, 18m is not really a problem. It is the horizontal offset that is usually the issue.

We are in Central, and I have seen some ridiculously tight/turny course sets. The rationale being that they need to control the speed of the younger U8 and U10 athletes for safety. An 18m course set is not a big deal when you are a U10 on 11m GS skis. The problem is when you have U14's that have hit puberty, have nearly adult bodies, and need to be on longer GS skis that are around 21m.

 

[freehlr360]

Definitely a challenge for the U14s when they get on the larger radius skis.

 

[nnowak]

Definitely a challenge for the U14s when they get on the larger radius skis.

Yes it is. My daughter was one of those "adult" U14's, and she skipped the majority of her U14 non-scored races, and instead focused solely on the few "ski-up" scored races. I am not sure what the answer is, but the current USSS age structure seems to be doing a disservice to some of the stronger athletes.

 

[freehlr360]

My man child u14 had to race with a u10-u14 field last year a few times and needless to say it was really easy to see the bad habits in GS.

 

[wolcoma]

I love Giant Slalom as it's a blend of all types of ski racing. While wide open 27M course sets may be popular, I am all for making GS technical with good turns and rhythm. I think one of the biggest problems in the United States is our courses tend to not be as technical as in Europe. I also think GS should be all about medium and long radius turns, but because the U19 kids are racing on longer 30M radius skis, many coaches and race officials think GS should be set wide open to accommodate those skis. However, when our top skiers race in Europe the courses are often much tighter and more technical than in the United States.

For younger U12's we often see GS set 18 to 22M, but at those ages most of those kids are racing on a much shorter GS ski with a 17-20M radius. So it's all relative.

 

[Swede]

There has been a debate in Europe also, on and off, perhaps more a few years ago, about adding more swing to gs to bring speeds down a little. Modern GS has almost become a speed dicipline.

 

[tube77]

USSS stipulates 15-22m for U12 and below, 15-25m for U14, and 15-27m for U16 and above. By itself, 18m is not really a problem. It is the horizontal offset that is usually the issue.

We are in Central, and I have seen some ridiculously tight/turny course sets. The rationale being that they need to control the speed of the younger U8 and U10 athletes for safety. An 18m course set is not a big deal when you are a U10 on 11m GS skis. The problem is when you have U14's that have hit puberty, have nearly adult bodies, and need to be on longer GS skis that are around 21m.

That’s exactly what happened to my son in second year U14.
I put him in 178cm with 23m and he completely messed up from the first GS racing this season..

 

[Peak203f]

There has been a debate in Europe also, on and off, perhaps more a few years ago, about adding more swing to gs to bring speeds down a little. Modern GS has almost become a speed dicipline.

In this season's Solden's Men GS, the fastest men were going near 93 kph near the end of the course. The 'slow' one's were only going about 87 kph.

 

[Swede]

In this season's Solden's Men GS, the fastest men were going near 93 kph near the end of the course. The 'slow' one's were only going about 87 kph.

Exactly. The forces and strain on the body (back) are tremendous. There has been some seriuos accidents too, remember T-ford.

 

[freehlr360]

I raced back in the day of 205 gs with derby risers (before the height limitation) and remember the courses staying pretty fall line.

the whole gs ski radius and course set is always a topic if always been interested in.

Great reply’s from everyone.

 

[sparty]

I've been in discussions about matching sets to ski/athlete level with the goal of keeping the tempo and impulse of the turn similar across age groups. Because younger skiers are on smaller-radius skis, they need a tighter set to end up with similar impulse and timing to a FIS racer on 30m skis.

I think one of the USSS Eastern Region newsletters linked to a Google doc of regional U16 focus points and included a similar suggestion.

In practice, what I've seen is that a tighter set (18-22m), with reasonable offset, actually works just fine for both U16s and U18 FIS athletes because the 18s can pull off greater angles and more pressure, thus matching the arcs of the 16s on tweener skis. FWIW, last weekend's U16/18 GS race at Sugarloaf was mostly around 22.5m first run and 24-25m second run, with some variations.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Thanks for that report from the field, @sparty!

At a U16 GS event I was at last weekend the sets were mostly 24 meters but with a great deal of offset, and a few bits where things crunched down to 21 meters.

When we have tried setting down to 18-22 meters throughout a course we reveal the terrain limitations of Pennsylvania. There are only 1 or 2 homologated GS trails in the state that can properly handle a tighter GS set with more offset. By and large our trails are too mellow for the 18s to get the speed to bend a 25+ meter radius ski into a functional arc, and stivots won't work well without the extra speed.

So it's a pickle for places that are terrain challenged - not impossible, but a pickle.

 

[sparty]

...
When we have tried setting down to 18-22 meters throughout a course we reveal the terrain limitations of Pennsylvania. There are only 1 or 2 homologated GS trails in the state that can properly handle a tighter GS set with more offset. By and large our trails are too mellow for the 18s to get the speed to bend a 25+ meter radius ski into a functional arc, and stivots won't work well without the extra speed.

So it's a pickle for places that are terrain challenged - not impossible, but a pickle.

Snow surface also becomes more of an issue. A 24-26m set tends to be more friendly when the surface is less supportive; we had a smaller set at one of our races last year (I think it was in the 18-20m range) and the kids on longer skis were pretty miserable because they surface didn't allow them to apply more force and edge angle to maintain the line. If the surface had been good or excellent, the same set would have worked much better.

 

[SlapChop]

Thanks for that report from the field, @sparty!

At a U16 GS event I was at last weekend the sets were mostly 24 meters but with a great deal of offset, and a few bits where things crunched down to 21 meters.

When we have tried setting down to 18-22 meters throughout a course we reveal the terrain limitations of Pennsylvania. There are only 1 or 2 homologated GS trails in the state that can properly handle a tighter GS set with more offset. By and large our trails are too mellow for the 18s to get the speed to bend a 25+ meter radius ski into a functional arc, and stivots won't work well without the extra speed.

So it's a pickle for places that are terrain challenged - not impossible, but a pickle.

We struggle here in Eastern Canada (specifically the Ottawa region) with terrain limitations too. Our best terrain isn't usually available until this time of year, so we are competing with the limited time on GS even when trying to take advantage of that terrain. It always surprises me how skiing out west or in Europe (Austria for example) where you get these long, wide runs and all it takes a day or two to get your GS rhythm, whereas here it can take a whole season if you get it at all.