Ski-Touring Binding Design: Past, Present, & Future

[charlier]

A thoughtful discussion on backcountry ski bindings with Lars Chickering-Aues (CAST), Giray Dadali (Daymaker), and Eric Hjorleisfson (Dynafit). They covered “acceptable use” for AT bindings, and how that might vary between individual skiers. In addition, challenges with boot/binding interfaces, release and retention of alpine vs touring bindings, “ideal systems”, and advice on wear and tear on some AT bindings. If interested, let’s start a conversation on the Blister panel discussion.

 

[Slim]

I was disappointed by the discussion, mostly just because of the title.
I was hoping to find a discussion of past, present and future touring bindings.

The discussion did not cover those three time periods (at least not in a thorough, organized way).

More problematic, is that they were specifically talking about other uses (and bindings types) than touring.

Several times they mentioned things like “those were designed for some thing different, for touring”.

Mostly, they were discussing bindings for freeride, back country freestyle and other uses, that specifically are not focused on touring.

In fact, the last 1/4 or so, was straight up talking about Alpine resort bindings.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with that, but then the title should be different.

 

[Slim]

Lars had some really great things to say, and I loved he brought up Jeff Campbells work, although I would think the influence of tech inserts in boots on the release of alpine bindings would be at least as relevant (including with the Cast system) as the release variances due to small dimensional variations.

 

[charlier]

The title is a bit misleading, but I mostly enjoy listening to the Blister podcasts. My feeling is that the podcast was directed to west coast skiers, in particular for the paid particpants a the Blister Summit, Crested Butte. Blister knows their audience. From my experience in retail sales, teaching AIARE classes, and backcountry ski guiding, many new alpine and AT skiers are interested in freeride, backcountry (e.g., alpine touring in the mountains), cross-over to alpine skiing, and release/retention issues. Most of my conversations with new skiers cover hybrid binding, cast systems, and multi-norm alpine binding. Personal risk tolerance and ski binding choice is an important issue with new skiers in the Pac NW.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

From my experience in retail sales, teaching AIARE classes, and backcountry ski guiding, many new alpine and AT skiers are interested in freeride, backcountry (e.g., alpine touring in the mountains), cross-over to alpine skiing, and release/retention issues.

Im constantly amazed at the number of people I see riding lifts with shifts or kingpin bindings. I frequently ask them ‘how they like those bindings for tourin?’, and 90% say they dont really tour. Maybe use them for a bit of sidecountry. Point being ‘sidecountry’ and ‘sled touring’ get lumped into ‘touring’ so the category stretches from sub 200 gram skimo race bindings up cliff hucking cast systems(which i use for sidecountry and sled touring).

 

[Slim]

@chris_the_wrench of course touring, ski mountaineering (both actual and racing), sled skiing, bc freestyle and freeride all fall into the ’backcountry’ skiing camp along with Heli/cat skiing.
And, there is some overlap in gear, including in bindings.

It was just indicative , that several of the panelists, literally used the term ‘touring’ to describe an activity different than their use cases.


@charlier , it makes total sense that new backcountry skiers are interested in gear they can use for resort and backcountry. After all, it’s expensive and if you are not sure how much you will use it, double duty gear makes sense.
But are you also saying that most people you talk to are looking more to extreme skiing, freeride and freestyle in the backcoutry than touring?
That would be news to me.
I hear plenty of people saying they worry about safety, retention or release of their AT bindings, but most still talk of their goals as going out and skiing nice snow, or touring.

Of all the people I see out skiing (not friends, just people I see in the area), they are all skiing stuff I would describe as ‘touring’ or ‘just skiing’. Never seen anyone throw tricks, drop cliffs or stuff like that.
Obviously plenty of people do that, but as a % of backcountry skiers? Pretty small would be my guess.


Any way, still great to discuss that gear.

 

[charlier]

@chris_the_wrench of course touring, ski mountaineering (both actual and racing), sled skiing, bc freestyle and freeride all fall into the ’backcountry’ skiing camp along with Heli/cat skiing.
And, there is some overlap in gear, including in bindings.

It was just indicative , that several of the panelists, literally used the term ‘touring’ to describe an activity different than their use cases.


@charlier
But are you also saying that most people you talk to are looking more to extreme skiing, freeride and freestyle in the backcoutry than touring?
That would be news to me.
I hear plenty of people saying they worry about safety, retention or release of their AT bindings, but most still talk of their goals as going out and skiing nice snow, or touring.

Of all the people I see out skiing (not friends, just people I see in the area), they are all skiing stuff I would describe as ‘touring’ or ‘just skiing’. Never seen anyone throw tricks, drop cliffs or stuff like that.
Obviously plenty of people do that, but as a % of backcountry skiers? Pretty small would be my guess.
Any way, still great to discuss that gear.

@Slim - my personal feeling is that many skiers purchase ski equipment based on their personal aspirations, and not their reality. In Canada, many skiers seek out jumps, jump cliffs, and build side country kickers. They mostly straight-line or carve broad super G turns between each jump. It’s a total different style of skiing - these skiers choose to ski on Shifts or equivalent bindings for retention and elasticity. In contrast, I ski with many friends that mostly ski within the ski area boundary and use light tech bindings. These light pin binding are not designed to withstand the punishment of repeated bumps, firm groomers, and tomahawk falls in ski areas. In B.C., any skiing out-of-bounds, within slack/side country or backcountry using skins and avi safety gear is considered ski touring. At least where I ski, mechanized skiing (cat- or heli-skiing) are not considered or called backcountry skiing. I think that these distinctions may be geography based.