Stöckli Laser AX ski tune is vital!!

[procos]

Just bought a pair of Stockli Laser AX skis and took them out for their first runs. My first 5 runs I was very freaked and thought I made bad decision. The tips were hooking and the tail just couldn't get out of a turn. Going at any other speed but full out and they felt dead. I was ready to just stop and put them in my truck and put them up for sale. Then it hit me that I could take them into the shop at the hilll and ask them to detune the tip and tail. So I took them into the shop and the guy working there said he could do some work on the edges and it should make a differences. So I went into the bar and let him spend 20-30 minutes with them. When I went to pick them up he said "oh my I have never seen such sharp edges". He said he detuned them a bit with a gummy stone and said "go rip on them for awhile and if you need some more work bring them back in'.

So I took them back out and I couldn't believe the difference. It was night and day. It was the exact ride I was looking for. It then made the light bulb go off that said "this is why I paid a premium for these skis". Had a huge smile the rest of the night. I also own a pair of SR95's which I love more than any ski and also a SR 105 which I don't really care for. And I would say these Laser AX's fall in line with my SR95's. Just a little info on how important a tune that matches what you want out of ski is.

Chuck

 

[KingGrump]

Regardless of make, I always check the base and hand tune a new ski for my family before skiing.
Broke my own rule the other day. Mamie's new Stockli SR 85W.Her third pair of SR 85W. Base looked good. The edges are beautiful. Make the mistake of releasing them to her with just a new wax job. She hated the skis. Hand tuned it that night. She have been a happy puppy since.

Guess I'll have to hand tune her new SR 95, her new 4th pair of SR 85W and my new AX. That factory tune does look very nice but not consistent.

In term of sharpness, I always do all our skis sharp from tip to tail. No detuning what so ever.

 

[oldfashoned]

Regardless of make, I always check the base and hand tune a new ski for my family before skiing.

Same here . It doesn’t take much time to polish new edges on a quality new ski. I just work it until the grinding marks are removed. Amazing how much slurry you get with just a few passes with a 600 stone on a new edge.

 

[Tony Storaro]

OK, a question. As per Stockli, the tune of SR95 should be 1,4/2 but when I brought my brand new SR's the other day to Ski George (the local legend who takes care of my gear) to boast a bit and show him there are wider ski than his 10 pairs of GS and SL in the Stockli line up (a move he immediately countered with his own brand new SR 105s, the one upper that he is, but this is another story) the dude checked them and said-No way this is 1,4, it is below 1 for sure, perhaps 0,75 or thereabouts.
So the question is: is this possible? That's first and then-what do I do about it? I mean, I absolutely love how the SR95s ski with this tune and am afraid to change anything. How badly can I screw up if I change to 1,4?

 

[KingGrump]

Same here . It doesn’t take much time to polish new edges on a quality new ski. I just work it until the grinding marks are removed. Amazing how much slurry you get with just a few passes with a 600 stone on a new edge.

Mamie skied the new ski back to back with one of her old pairs. Did not like the new. I can actually see her new skis not tracking as well as her old pair while she is skiing. She skis a very round turn on the groom so it is very easy to spot the deficiencies.

The side edge factory finish on the new Stockli is more like milling marks rather than grinding marks. Beautiful looking finish. Way too beautiful to mess with. Unfortunately, it doesn't ski well enough. At least not for our wonderful New England powder.

The base bevel was OK. A bit inconsistency here and there. The side edge angle looks about 2°. I took a edge grinder to it after pulling the sidewall. Took several slow passes with a coarse wheel to reset the side edge to 3°. Checking the side edge after each pass of the grinder showed the factory side edge angle along the ski was inconsistent. Couple passes with a medium wheel cleans up the edges to a acceptable finish.
A quick deburr with a surgical stone and gummy along the base edge finishes the reset. I don't polish the side edge when I use a edge grinder. I find the edge grip is better without polishing.

Mamie is much happier with the new tune. The world is off its head and back on its axis again.

 

[KingGrump]

OK, a question. As per Stöckli, the tune of SR95 should be 1,4/2 but when I brought my brand new SR's the other day to Ski George (the local legend who takes care of my gear) to boast a bit and show him there are wider ski than his 10 pairs of GS and SL in the Stöckli line up (a move he immediately countered with his own brand new SR 105s, the one upper that he is, but this is another story) the dude checked them and said-No way this is 1,4, it is below 1 for sure, perhaps 0,75 or thereabouts.
So the question is: is this possible? That's first and then-what do I do about it? I mean, I absolutely love how the SR95s ski with this tune and am afraid to change anything. How badly can I screw up if I change to 1,4?

If you like the way the ski is currently skiing for you. Don't change anything.

A larger base bevel will be slower to engage. A more looser/playful feeling ski. Will be easier to side slip.

 

[François Pugh]

Just bought a pair of Stöckli Laser AX skis and took them out for their first runs. My first 5 runs I was very freaked and thought I made bad decision. The tips were hooking and the tail just couldn't get out of a turn. Going at any other speed but full out and they felt dead. I was ready to just stop and put them in my truck and put them up for sale. Then it hit me that I could take them into the shop at the hilll and ask them to detune the tip and tail. So I took them into the shop and the guy working there said he could do some work on the edges and it should make a differences. So I went into the bar and let him spend 20-30 minutes with them. When I went to pick them up he said "oh my I have never seen such sharp edges". He said he detuned them a bit with a gummy stone and said "go rip on them for awhile and if you need some more work bring them back in'.

So I took them back out and I couldn't believe the difference. It was night and day. It was the exact ride I was looking for. It then made the light bulb go off that said "this is why I paid a premium for these skis". Had a huge smile the rest of the night. I also own a pair of SR95's which I love more than any ski and also a SR 105 which I don't really care for. And I would say these Laser AX's fall in line with my SR95's. Just a little info on how important a tune that matches what you want out of ski is.

Chuck

Regardless of make, I always check the base and hand tune a new ski for my family before skiing.
Broke my own rule the other day. Mamie's new Stöckli SR 85W.Her third pair of SR 85W. Base looked good. The edges are beautiful. Make the mistake of releasing them to her with just a new wax job. She hated the skis. Hand tuned it that night. She have been a happy puppy since.

Guess I'll have to hand tune her new SR 95, her new 4th pair of SR 85W and my new AX. That factory tune does look very nice but not consistent.

In term of sharpness, I always do all our skis sharp from tip to tail. No detuning what so ever.

Different strokes for different folks.

If you love the feel of instant hard locked in turns, you will like a razor sharp tip-to-tail (or at least contact point when leaned over to contact point when leaned over), 0.5 base 3 side or more aggressive tune. If you love smearing buttery turns, you will like 1:3 or less aggressive tune, or special tune with even less acuteness near tip and tail. The AX is a ski between hard snow ripper/beast and all-mountain gentle mother, a hard balance to find and a different one for different skiers. If your background is carving high g turns on hard snow, you will like the beasts; if your background is smearing quick turns on wide rockered skis, you won't.

Choose wisely.

 

[Jeronimo]

In term of sharpness, I always do all our skis sharp from tip to tail. No detuning what so ever.

...How on earth do you ski that? I just had the same experience as the OP on my Rossi Experience 84's and I couldn't believe how shaky the sharp tips and tails made me feel. Is it just a technique difference? I could get down the hill on them but it seemed like the harder the conditions on the slope the MORE they wanted to grab and not budge.

 

[Noodler]

OK, a question. As per Stöckli, the tune of SR95 should be 1,4/2 but when I brought my brand new SR's the other day to Ski George (the local legend who takes care of my gear) to boast a bit and show him there are wider ski than his 10 pairs of GS and SL in the Stöckli line up (a move he immediately countered with his own brand new SR 105s, the one upper that he is, but this is another story) the dude checked them and said-No way this is 1,4, it is below 1 for sure, perhaps 0,75 or thereabouts.
So the question is: is this possible? That's first and then-what do I do about it? I mean, I absolutely love how the SR95s ski with this tune and am afraid to change anything. How badly can I screw up if I change to 1,4?

Please do not put these skis at 1.4 - that's just crazy to me. 1* base bevel should be the most any good skier would ever want unless you're planning on sliding rails.

 

[Noodler]

...How on earth do you ski that? I just had the same experience as the OP on my Rossi Experience 84's and I couldn't believe how shaky the sharp tips and tails made me feel. Is it just a technique difference? I could get down the hill on them but it seemed like the harder the conditions on the slope the MORE they wanted to grab and not budge.

The problem here is the lack of knowledge that almost every ski out of the wrapper has incorrect base bevels through the tips and tails. Until a ski is hand-tuned, the tuning machines do not handle these critical areas well at all. They're always under-beveled in the tips and tails. That makes for a really tough tune to ski. De-tuning the tips and tails is NOT the right way to handle this situation IMHO. That just masks the problem. So @procos - please get your skis tuned well (they're not skiing at their optimal level yet).

 

[KingGrump]

Different strokes for different folks.

If you love the feel of instant hard locked in turns, you will like a razor sharp tip-to-tail (or at least contact point when leaned over to contact point when leaned over), 0.5 base 3 side or more aggressive tune. If you love smearing buttery turns, you will like 1:3 or less aggressive tune, or special tune with even less acuteness near tip and tail. The AX is a ski between hard snow ripper/beast and all-mountain gentle mother, a hard balance to find and a different one for different skiers. If your background is carving high g turns on hard snow, you will like the beasts; if your background is smearing quick turns on wide rockered skis, you won't.

Choose wisely.

The tune on the ski is less important than one's ability to tame the beast within.

...How on earth do you ski that? I just had the same experience as the OP on my Rossi Experience 84's and I couldn't believe how shaky the sharp tips and tails made me feel. Is it just a technique difference? I could get down the hill on them but it seemed like the harder the conditions on the slope the MORE they wanted to grab and not budge.

There are advantages to being a short, fat and old dude.

Being old and feeble, we don't move very fast. The skis don't engage abruptly. We generally ski very round turns. Tip following tail. Wait, I think it is the other way around.
If you understand what the Pointer Sisters are trying to get at in the following song, you are half way there. Your wife/GF and your skiing will thank you.


This year, we have the pleasure to ski VT late into the season. We are normally out west by now. Out of the 40+ days on snow, I have been on FIS SL & GS skis for more than 30 of them. They are all have 0.5/3 tune. We ski everything with them including bumps. Smooth and centered. I almost forgot how much I like race skis.

Come to the Taos gathering next season and you too can learn to ski like an old guy.

 

[procos]

The problem here is the lack of knowledge that almost every ski out of the wrapper has incorrect base bevels through the tips and tails. Until a ski is hand-tuned, the tuning machines do not handle these critical areas well at all. They're always under-beveled in the tips and tails. That makes for a really tough tune to ski. De-tuning the tips and tails is NOT the right way to handle this situation IMHO. That just masks the problem. So @procos - please get your skis tuned well (they're not skiing at their optimal level yet).

I am not touching them. Had a blast on them after they did whatever they did to them last night. Optimal or not they are perfect for what I want out of them. Will just wait until I need to get them tuned to get them done.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Please do not put these skis at 1.4 - that's just crazy to me. 1* base bevel should be the most any good skier would ever want unless you're planning on sliding rails.

Yeah,that's what I thought-that 1.4 would be too much but wanted to make sure, thanks.

 

[mdf]

Please do not put these skis at 1.4 - that's just crazy to me. 1* base bevel should be the most any good skier would ever want unless you're planning on sliding rails.

I agree that is crazy but apparently it is what the vendor specs say.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I agree that is crazy but apparently it is what the vendor specs say.

 

[Ken_R]

Just bought a pair of Stöckli Laser AX skis and took them out for their first runs. My first 5 runs I was very freaked and thought I made bad decision. The tips were hooking and the tail just couldn't get out of a turn. Going at any other speed but full out and they felt dead. I was ready to just stop and put them in my truck and put them up for sale. Then it hit me that I could take them into the shop at the hilll and ask them to detune the tip and tail. So I took them into the shop and the guy working there said he could do some work on the edges and it should make a differences. So I went into the bar and let him spend 20-30 minutes with them. When I went to pick them up he said "oh my I have never seen such sharp edges". He said he detuned them a bit with a gummy stone and said "go rip on them for awhile and if you need some more work bring them back in'.

So I took them back out and I couldn't believe the difference. It was night and day. It was the exact ride I was looking for. It then made the light bulb go off that said "this is why I paid a premium for these skis". Had a huge smile the rest of the night. I also own a pair of SR95's which I love more than any ski and also a SR 105 which I don't really care for. And I would say these Laser AX's fall in line with my SR95's. Just a little info on how important a tune that matches what you want out of ski is.

Chuck

Maybe they were edge high.

 

[procos]

Maybe they were edge high.

Ha I don't know all this lingo you guys speak of. Edge angle, edge high and all the other stuff I just know what I like by feel. If i put it on and it feels good when I turn I'm happy if not I am not happy. Good thing the guy who tunes my skis knows what I like.

 

[Ken_R]

Ha I don't know all this lingo you guys speak of. Edge angle, edge high and all the other stuff I just know what I like by feel. If i put it on and it feels good when I turn I'm happy if not I am not happy. Good thing the guy who tunes my skis knows what I like.

Edge High = the edge metal is higher (or lower depends on which way you look at it) than the base material so the metal edges digs down into the snow even when the ski is flat. Skis with that condition are also called "railed". They tend to feel like they do not want to release from a turn.

 

[Brad J]

I'll have to hand tune her new SR 95, her new 4th pair of SR 85W

You are so good to her

 

[KingGrump]

You are so good to her

One good turn deserves another.
Good ski partners are tough to find.