The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[Wurd365]

@onenerdykid Do you happen to know how the new Ultra 130 compares to the Tecnica Mach1 130 (not the new T-Drive, the previous model) in terms of stiffness? I’ve been finding the Mach1 maybe a bit too tight/ wrong for my foot and maybe a bit too stiff, especially when it’s really cold. The fit of the Hawx looks really promising, but I’m having a hard time deciding between the 120 and the 130 so any insight would be greatly appreciated

 

[onenerdykid]

Due to its weight/plastic thickness, the Mach 1 130 LV is going to be a little stiffer/more stable most likely, but only marginally. The PU we use in the Hawx Ultra series is very temperature stable, meaning it's flex characteristics don't drastically change when very warm or very cold. So, in other words, it will feel quite similar to how you flex it in room temperature. It won't become wildly stiffer when frozen.

130 vs. 120 - the boots use the same Mimic Platinum liner (which is great, so you get the same fit & customization potential) but the 130 uses a stiffer shell and cuff. So it is a tangible difference between the two. Which is right for you? That's unfortunately a question I won't be able to help with since I can't watch you flex the boots. That's where your boot-fitter will come into play.

 

[ScottB]

Do all the Hawx models use the temperature stable PU material?? (Prime, Magna)

I personally think temp. stable plastic is great, and I thought only the grilamid plastic used on touring boots was temp. stable. Since I own at grilamid Hawx Ultra XTD, I know the grilamid is a more springy plastic.

How does the temp. stable PU behave compared to the typical non temp. stable material? If very simialr, why not use it in all your PU boots?

 

[onenerdykid]

Do all the Hawx models use the temperature stable PU material?? (Prime, Magna)

I personally think temp. stable plastic is great, and I thought only the grilamid plastic used on touring boots was temp. stable. Since I own at grilamid Hawx Ultra XTD, I know the grilamid is a more springy plastic.

How does the temp. stable PU behave compared to the typical non temp. stable material? If very simialr, why not use it in all your PU boots?

All Hawx Ultras use our True Flex PU (it's the only plastic that works in that mold series), and the men's Prime 130, women's Prime 115, and men's Magna 130 use it as well. The rest of the models in those ranges use "normal" high-end PUs. True Flex PU is simply too expensive to use everywhere.

True Flex PU is best suited for boots with thin wall thicknesses and it's a very stiff PU. We do make a few pairs of Redster TI boots with it for certain athletes & certain conditions, but when this stiff PU is paired with a thick wall thickness, it's too stiff for mortals.

 

[ScottB]

Does your post cover the woman's Hawx as well? (ie. all Woman's Ultra's are true flex PU, but no woman's Primes or Magna's are true flex). I guess I can look on the website for a specific model and look for True Flex feature.

 

[onenerdykid]

Does your post cover the woman's Hawx as well? (ie. all Woman's Ultra's are true flex PU, but no woman's Primes or Magna's are true flex). I guess I can look on the website for a specific model and look for True Flex feature.

Post now* includes women’s models too.

 

[AtomicIsSuperior]

@onenerdykid Hi there! Where to begin...

I've got myself into a bit of a boot predicament. My discontinued Redster World Cup 130 Liners were destroyed by my dog two seasons ago (literally eaten). These boots have seen <20 days of snow despite being from 2018(?). Thanks to your podcast with blister and some other research in these threads I sort of figured out that I could put a brand new Redster Clubsport Professional foam injected liner into that boot since the WC is the same mold as the CS. So I took my WC's into the shop today and my bootfitter confirmed that they are compatible and that's what we did. So I now have a WC 130 with professional foam injected CS liner and going to toss the new strap on there as well if I can get it.

Here's where it gets tricky: For insight I usually run two pairs of boots. One boot solely dedicated to gates and racing and another boot for carving up groomers, sending 10-30 foot cliffs, skiing switch, hitting the park and for coaching ski racing (aka more of my daily boot). So before today my setup for racing was a half eaten world cup 130, and for everything else a Technica mach 1 LV. The Technica's are shot and need replacing as I've been on them for 4 seasons now. To add to that, I'm bordering 26.5 and 27.5 my bootfitter today told me that I could be in a 26.5 rather then a 27.5 and guess what, my WC's are a 27.5. I did feel a bit of movement inside the boot at times in my WC but hoping with the foam injected liners some of that space has now been deleted for a tighter fit.

So, if the 27.5 WC 130 is my race boot, should I buy a 26.5 Clubsport 130 and make that my everyday boot? Or would that be pointless and feel too similar? As well do I get it in 27.5 or 26.5? I would have to adjust my binding every time I switched boots which would be a huge pain in the rear. But it sounds like 26.5 is a better performance fit for me and that's what I'm after. The other scenario is make my WC 130 my every day boot and get a Redster TI 130 in 26.5 as my race boot and just adjust my bindings on race/gate training day. I liked my Technica 130 LV as my every day ski around boot because with the wider last I found the turn initiation to be a little less aggressive therefore providing a little more desirable performance in scenario's outside of gates. I could still get my hip to the snow easily and rip powerful turns with the Mach LV's and at the same time be a little more playful/creative in my skiing because the ski didn't want to just immediately initiate a turn like the WC's do. I guess what I'm saying is I don't want two pure bred race boots. I would be happy with a CS (to replace the Mach LV) and the WC 130 as my race boot. My internal battle is that I feel like I am sacrificing performance on the boot that needs it the most (the WC 130) by having a size 27.5 instead of a 26.5. I guess all I can do is ski the WC with the newly acquired liner and see if I still feel like I need a 26.5. The whole sizing thing makes this really confusing. In a perfect world I'd just have a 26.5 on both boots and have WC130 or TI 130 for racing and a CS 130 for everything else. Not at all trying to gloat but I've been able to win a few races even with the 27.5 and half eaten liner with the plastic shell digging into my shin. So maybe 27.5 isn't all that bad and I should just stick with that size? Boot fitter said left foot is closer to 27.5 and right foot is 26.5. I think that's how I ended up in this situation in the first place but he said I could definitely do 26.5.

Let me know what you think if I should go with CS 130 professional and in a 26.5 or a 27.5, or, if I should go the TI route in a 26.5 and make the WC's my everyday and just adjust bindings for race day.

Skis:
165cm FIS S9
190cm G9 RS
188cm Bentchetler 100s

Sorry if this was confusing but thanks in advance!

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid Hi there! Where to begin...

I've got myself into a bit of a boot predicament. My discontinued Redster World Cup 130 Liners were destroyed by my dog two seasons ago (literally eaten). These boots have seen <20 days of snow despite being from 2018(?). Thanks to your podcast with blister and some other research in these threads I sort of figured out that I could put a brand new Redster Clubsport Professional foam injected liner into that boot since the WC is the same mold as the CS. So I took my WC's into the shop today and my bootfitter confirmed that they are compatible and that's what we did. So I now have a WC 130 with professional foam injected CS liner and going to toss the new strap on there as well if I can get it.

Here's where it gets tricky: For insight I usually run two pairs of boots. One boot solely dedicated to gates and racing and another boot for carving up groomers, sending 10-30 foot cliffs, skiing switch, hitting the park and for coaching ski racing (aka more of my daily boot). So before today my setup for racing was a half eaten world cup 130, and for everything else a Technica mach 1 LV. The Technica's are shot and need replacing as I've been on them for 4 seasons now. To add to that, I'm bordering 26.5 and 27.5 my bootfitter today told me that I could be in a 26.5 rather then a 27.5 and guess what, my WC's are a 27.5. I did feel a bit of movement inside the boot at times in my WC but hoping with the foam injected liners some of that space has now been deleted for a tighter fit.

So, if the 27.5 WC 130 is my race boot, should I buy a 26.5 Clubsport 130 and make that my everyday boot? Or would that be pointless and feel too similar? As well do I get it in 27.5 or 26.5? I would have to adjust my binding every time I switched boots which would be a huge pain in the rear. But it sounds like 26.5 is a better performance fit for me and that's what I'm after. The other scenario is make my WC 130 my every day boot and get a Redster TI 130 in 26.5 as my race boot and just adjust my bindings on race/gate training day. I liked my Technica 130 LV as my every day ski around boot because with the wider last I found the turn initiation to be a little less aggressive therefore providing a little more desirable performance in scenario's outside of gates. I could still get my hip to the snow easily and rip powerful turns with the Mach LV's and at the same time be a little more playful/creative in my skiing because the ski didn't want to just immediately initiate a turn like the WC's do. I guess what I'm saying is I don't want two pure bred race boots. I would be happy with a CS (to replace the Mach LV) and the WC 130 as my race boot. My internal battle is that I feel like I am sacrificing performance on the boot that needs it the most (the WC 130) by having a size 27.5 instead of a 26.5. I guess all I can do is ski the WC with the newly acquired liner and see if I still feel like I need a 26.5. The whole sizing thing makes this really confusing. In a perfect world I'd just have a 26.5 on both boots and have WC130 or TI 130 for racing and a CS 130 for everything else. Not at all trying to gloat but I've been able to win a few races even with the 27.5 and half eaten liner with the plastic shell digging into my shin. So maybe 27.5 isn't all that bad and I should just stick with that size? Boot fitter said left foot is closer to 27.5 and right foot is 26.5. I think that's how I ended up in this situation in the first place but he said I could definitely do 26.5.

Let me know what you think if I should go with CS 130 professional and in a 26.5 or a 27.5, or, if I should go the TI route in a 26.5 and make the WC's my everyday and just adjust bindings for race day.

Skis:
165cm FIS S9
190cm G9 RS
188cm Bentchetler 100s

Sorry if this was confusing but thanks in advance!

Appreciate your screen name, flattery will get you everywhere

Normally, if you are going to have two differently sized boots, the race-specific boot would be the smaller boot and the daily driver would be larger boot. This is not to say that your daily driver should run big, but "big" only in comparison to an aggressively down-sized race boot.

With that said, I would most likely suggest (along with your boot-fitter) that you should be in a 26/26.5 in both boots. But, your race-specific boot would be a tighter fitting, lower volume, potentially stiffer Redster TI 130/150 and your daily driver would be a Redster CS 130. That's probably not what you wanted to hear given that you just bought a new Mimic Professional liner...

The other thing you could do is ski the WC 130 full time and slide the heel back on the Bentchetler 100.

 

[Chris Johnson]

1. Ultra is a true alpine boot, built for 100% resort usage, and always uses PU plastic. Ultra XTD is a hybrid boot that blends both regular Hawx Ultra features (alpine features) and Backland features (touring features) together. Depending on which model you are looking at, Hawx Ultra XTD uses PA plastic in certain flexes/price points, or PU for certain flexes/price points. The fit & geometry are 1:1 the same for both boots.

2. For 21/22, the new Hawx Ultra is going to ski better than the Hawx Ultra XTD. Going with the Ultra XTD, you will be giving up some downhill performance in order to gain touring capability. But this is the case for all walk-mode boots from all boot brands. There is no walk-mode ski boot that skis 100% as well as its fixed-cuff counterpart. There's also no true alpine boot that tours as well as a hybrid boot, so you have to pick which compromises are important to you.

Hey OneNerdyKid

Thanks for the info supplied here. Just picked up a pair of Hawx Ultra XTD 130s. I'm coming from some K2 Pinnacles that I used for 5 years, including touring (heavy as a stuck pig), so quite excited at the range of motion and light weight. I'm a bit concerned about not gaining much performance in-bounds from the 110 K2's, and since I've progressed as a skier pretty significantly in the last 5 seasons, that was a big thing on my list for new boots.

I was happy to go get fitted at a shop for the XTDs but I am a volunteer patroller with access to an Atomic discount. I'd be open to the idea of picking up a non-XTD pair solely for inbounds skiing. Would I be good to grab the same size in the Hawx Ultra 130s?

 

[onenerdykid]

I'd be open to the idea of picking up a non-XTD pair solely for inbounds skiing. Would I be good to grab the same size in the Hawx Ultra 130s?

Yes - this is exactly why we made these boots and named them the way we did.

Hawx Ultra and Hawx Ultra XTD share the exact same last (from a fit standpoint), liner construction, and geometry.

You will find the new Hawx Ultra to be more stable & more supportive than an Ultra XTD. It will be a better choice for inbounds for sure.

 

[Chris Johnson]

Yes - this is exactly why we made these boots and named them the way we did.

Hawx Ultra and Hawx Ultra XTD share the exact same last (from a fit standpoint), liner construction, and geometry.

You will find the new Hawx Ultra to be more stable & more supportive than an Ultra XTD. It will be a better choice for inbounds for sure.

Thank you!!

 

[ScottB]

@AtomicIsSuperior,

I figured it would be best for ONK to reply to this, as they are his company's boots. I bought new boots last year and tried on the boots you mention, and faced similar decisions (not the exact ones, though). I was deciding between two sizes and between a Redster WC, Ti , and CS. I choose the larger size and the CS boot and I am very happy and the boot skis great in the resort. I do not actively race, but I am a race team coach. I coach in Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD boots (AT touring boots) that have rubber soles, a walk mode cuff, and the new Mimic Liner. I would not race in those (but I do run a few courses in them now and then) but they are so much nicer to stand on the hill in. They work fine for doing drills as well, but for gates they don't have the strength and precision to be serious. I ski everyday in the Redster CS and love it so far. It is so comfortable.

I have a narrow foot, so that is why I was looking at race boots. I would not ski everyday in a boot that was a "race fit" or I was squeezed into, just not worth the discomfort. So your size issue comes down to do your toes touch the end of the boot in the smaller boot, and if so can they stretch it to keep you off the toe box, if not my advice is get the larger size and go narrower if needed (a Ti or WC is narrower than a CS, not by much, but a little). If you are widening the WC to fit your foot, then keep the larger size. I would race in a CS no problem, but if you are really good, I would expect the Ti or WC to perform a bit better at the extreme end of the performance scale. I am not at the upper end of the race scale so the CS would work for beer league racing for me.

Have you tried on the smaller size boot? I did and not only was it too short by a lot, but it was too narrow and crushing my toes. I was told the boot could have been modified to work for me, but why go through that when the larger size is plenty snug and so much more comfortable. If the liner packs out, I will replace with the Atomic Pro liner, as you have done. Just for reference, by shell fit the smaller size was OK, but slightly less than 1 finger "race fit". I guess with the liner in it shoved my foot more forward. I was buckled up tightly so my foot was back as far as it would go. The boot fitter wanted to heat mold the liner to get me back more, but I couldn't take the pain and said don't bother. BTW, if your toes aren't touching in the smaller size, then you should definitely drop down. The main reason to have extra length is for a wide foot to get extra width in a narrow shell without going to a wider model. Fit the "control surfaces" of your foot (ankle, heel, instep, shin) and adjust shell length if needed. (can stretch by 1/2 size if too short).

My suggestions is broaden your thinking on what boot is best for resort skiing and coaching. (Hawx Ultra, XTD, Redster CS, WC, Ti) You also have the option of stiffer flexes for the CS boot if you want to race in it. (that might not be an option that makes sense given your WC boot, unless you want to go smaller size and want the CS to both race and resort ski??)

I think if I was you I would use the WC for racing and get a CS, Ultra or Ultra XTD for resort and coaching, normally your racing boot would be the smaller one for a tighter fit. But if you are a great fit in one size, then both boots should be that size. The concept of going smaller is old school when multiple widths weren't available. Now a days, you can get both narrow and long enough boots with the model width options.

 

[AtomicIsSuperior]

@onenerdykid @ScottB Thanks for the replies guys. ONK, I should have mentioned that my Technica mach 1 LV's are also in a 27.5 so all of my skis are already setup to 27.5 because I do not own a 26.5. I hadn't really done too much research on boots before now and never really pushed for a smaller/more performance fit because I just went with whatever boot size the bootfitter told me I was. Maybe I shouldn't have even asked the question of going to a smaller size... but inside I knew that I had felt a bit of movement with my foot forward and backwards in my 27.5 WC's on warmer days especially. Cranked my buckles usually in the WC especially on warmer days to keep it in place. Strangely I did not feel the movement as much in the 27.5 Technica's but it may be due to a sizing discrepancy between brands.

Scott, I actually read your great review on your CS's before purchasing the professional liner the other day. Your comparisons between boots were very helpful and your review along with listening to the podcast with ONK were part of my decision in buying a new liner for my WC and wanting to get a CS as my every day boot rather then a Hawx Ultra or another Technia Mach 1 LV. I think the CS would suit my harder charging style in an every day boot and also be a lot more comfortable then the WC's for standing around in while coaching.

I have not tried on the smaller sized boot. I have a narrow foot so the width is not at all an issue for me and never has been. I will go in on Wednesday when my shop is open to try on a 26.5 CS. I am maybe regretting my decision to purchase the liner but when I told the guys at the shop that I had a little bit of movement in the 27.5 WC and asked if the foam injected liner would mostly solve that problem, they said yes it would reduce the movement and give a tighter fit. As well the shells on my WC's are basically brand new and didn't want to see them go to waste. It was also a matter of being able to setup a boot for the season right then and there because the person who I usually get my boots from at Atomic has unfortunately not been very reliable recently (probably due to supply chain issues?). The shop did give me a Pro's discount on the liner which was nice.

After having my foot measured I knew that if I were going to buy a new boot, it would be in a 26.5 and I would just have some work done to it on my bigger foot especially. The one thing I did not think about when buying the liners was that if I bought a new CS as my everyday boot in a 26.5, every time I wanted to ski the WC's I would have to adjust my bindings! As well, that it would make me feel totally twisted having the WC race boot in a 27.5 and the CS in a 26.5 because like you guys mentioned that is the opposite of what is ideal.

I think my plan of action here is to just wait for ski season and see how much the new liners improved the fit of my WC 130s. Who knows, maybe with the new liners they'll be a great fit and I won't be worried about it at all and just use those as my only boots if I can survive in them while coaching. OR even just get a CS in 27.5 as well. I think that knowing I could be in a 26.5 is going to bother me though. So maybe I get a CS in 26.5 and deal with my twisted boot size reality, ski the WC's as my race boot for a season or two and deal with adjusting the bindings to get my money's worth and then eventually upgrade to a 26.5 TI as my race boot.

I hope it hurts like hell when I go to try on the 26.5 this Wednesday. But based off of what my bootfitter said when he measured my foot on Sunday, it probably won't be bad. Whether or not my shorter sized foot feels good in that size and my longer sized foot is not completely crushed will be the true tell tale.

ONK, as for the name this is really what I believe. I've been skiing on Atomic since I was 7 years old. I've demo'd and spent some time on pretty much every other brand but Atomic is just the answer. When people ask me about skis/boots I kind of ironically but also unironically say exactly what my screen name says. My non-atomic friends tease me about it but hey what can I say, Atomic just rocks. The kids I coach also may have been biasedly influenced on which brand they now think is the coolest .

 

[ScottB]

Having two different size boots is a PITA. My CS boots and my Hawx Ultra XTD are the same size, but the Ultra's have a different sole and a smaller BSL, by 5-6mm. So I have to adjust bindings if I switch boots on the same ski. Once I screwed it up and skied a morning trying to figure why my skis weren't behaving right and I was skiing so bad. The AFD had a lot of play adjusted for the wrong boot. Also if your skis are sensitive to mount position, you will be off 1/2 a cm on one boot unless your toes and heels adjust on your bindings.

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid @ScottB I think my plan of action here is to just wait for ski season and see how much the new liners improved the fit of my WC 130s. Who knows, maybe with the new liners they'll be a great fit and I won't be worried about it at all and just use those as my only boots if I can survive in them while coaching. OR even just get a CS in 27.5 as well. I think that knowing I could be in a 26.5 is going to bother me though. So maybe I get a CS in 26.5 and deal with my twisted boot size reality, ski the WC's as my race boot for a season or two and deal with adjusting the bindings to get my money's worth and then eventually upgrade to a 26.5 TI as my race boot.

I hope it hurts like hell when I go to try on the 26.5 this Wednesday. But based off of what my bootfitter said when he measured my foot on Sunday, it probably won't be bad. Whether or not my shorter sized foot feels good in that size and my longer sized foot is not completely crushed will be the true tell tale.

ONK, as for the name this is really what I believe. I've been skiing on Atomic since I was 7 years old. I've demo'd and spent some time on pretty much every other brand but Atomic is just the answer. When people ask me about skis/boots I kind of ironically but also unironically say exactly what my screen name says. My non-atomic friends tease me about it but hey what can I say, Atomic just rocks. The kids I coach also may have been biasedly influenced on which brand they now think is the coolest .

Ha, that's awesome- I guess brainwashing from an early age really does pay off

From what you've said, I think it makes a lot of sense to definitely try the WC 130s & new Mimic Professional liner. It will for sure be an improvement over the older, half-eaten liner. I'm sure you'll really enjoy how it skis.

When it comes time to get new boots, be aware that a 26 shell won't feel good out of the box for you. It shouldn't. But it's really easy to make space in these boots. I'm also a 27.5cm foot and my "normal" mondopoint size is 27/27.5 (2cm shell fit) but I wear a 26/26.5 Redster CS 130 (1cm shell fit). I could ski it out of the box, but it wouldn't feel all that great. A good footbed, Mimic Professional liner, couple grinds & a toe punch, and I can wear that boot all day and hike in it.

 

[AtomicIsSuperior]

Having two different size boots is a PITA. My CS boots and my Hawx Ultra XTD are the same size, but the Ultra's have a different sole and a smaller BSL, by 5-6mm. So I have to adjust bindings if I switch boots on the same ski. Once I screwed it up and skied a morning trying to figure why my skis weren't behaving right and I was skiing so bad. The AFD had a lot of play adjusted for the wrong boot. Also if your skis are sensitive to mount position, you will be off 1/2 a cm on one boot unless your toes and heels adjust on your bindings.

Good thing you realized it was your AFD. I did a grade 2 sprain on my MCL in 2019 due to having the AFD poorly setup on a pair of skis I was borrowing in Revelstoke. Stepped right out of the binding after sending off a cat track onto a double black. As soon as I tried to speed check/turn after landing, the ski was just gone off my foot without me realizing and I put my boot right into the snow at probably near 100kph. After that I let a shop set that kind of stuff up for the most part. I only have the ISO 5355 sole boots and wouldn't have to adjust the AFD anyway unless one boot was significantly more worn then the other. Good point on mount position too.

 

[AtomicIsSuperior]

Ha, that's awesome- I guess brainwashing from an early age really does pay off

From what you've said, I think it makes a lot of sense to definitely try the WC 130s & new Mimic Professional liner. It will for sure be an improvement over the older, half-eaten liner. I'm sure you'll really enjoy how it skis.

When it comes time to get new boots, be aware that a 26 shell won't feel good out of the box for you. It shouldn't. But it's really easy to make space in these boots. I'm also a 27.5cm foot and my "normal" mondopoint size is 27/27.5 (2cm shell fit) but I wear a 26/26.5 Redster CS 130 (1cm shell fit). I could ski it out of the box, but it wouldn't feel all that great. A good footbed, Mimic Professional liner, couple grinds & a toe punch, and I can wear that boot all day and hike in it.

Good to have some reassurance from someone that's 27/27.5 in a 26/26.5 so that I know I'm not just being super picky about my sizing, and even if I am I think sizing is definitely worth being picky about. If you're 27.5 foot, can hike in those boots and they're easy to make space in then that is definitely confidence inspiring for me to go to 26.5 when it's time. The only relatively good solution I've come up with if I get a 26/26.5 CS this season is to just set them up for my Bentchetlers and have that ski and boot married until I eventually switch my race boot to a 26/26.5.

Either way I'm super excited to try out the WC with the new professional liners and get back on the slopes. No lack of fun so far even with a boot that had half eaten liners and that I could be maybe a size down in . Thanks for the advice from both of you.

 

[Simonsays]

@onenerdykid I'm looking at the new Redster STi probably in a 110 flex. However I had a chance to quickly compare the 110 to the 130 instore (not tried them on yet in correct size) and there appear to be a few shortcuts, dare I say cost cutting moves on the 110. Rivetted buckles not screw in, smaller powerstrap etc. All the boots I have purchased previously in softer flex had the same hardwear just softer flex (e.g. Dobie 110s). Are there any other physical differences between the 110 and the 130. Is the difference in flex down to use of different plastic (either thickness or density) or is it same boot but the 110s just have V cuts?

I'm not the heaviest guy (132lbs) mostly ski fast piste stuff on FIS slalom skis + cheater GS skis.

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid I'm looking at the new Redster STi probably in a 110 flex. However I had a chance to quickly compare the 110 to the 130 instore (not tried them on yet in correct size) and there appear to be a few shortcuts, dare I say cost cutting moves on the 110. Rivetted buckles not screw in, smaller powerstrap etc. All the boots I have purchased previously in softer flex had the same hardwear just softer flex (e.g. Dobie 110s). Are there any other physical differences between the 110 and the 130. Is the difference in flex down to use of different plastic (either thickness or density) or is it same boot but the 110s just have V cuts?

I'm not the heaviest guy (132lbs) mostly ski fast piste stuff on FIS slalom skis + cheater GS skis.

The 110 is $200 cheaper than the 130, so yeah there are some ways we made the boot less expensive.

But it does use the same World Cup liner and the plastic is the same type of PU as the 130, just softer.

 

[Simonsays]

The 110 is $200 cheaper than the 130, so yeah there are some ways we made the boot less expensive.

But it does use the same World Cup liner and the plastic is the same type of PU as the 130, just softer.

Thanks for the reply, good to hear re. the liner. I'm in Europe so price difference isn't so great for us, perhaps 50 between the two. Was a bit surprised at the change to rivets just because the previous WC 110s had been screw ins