Thread Starter
TS
21/22 & 22/23 are the same (130s have Mimic World Cup liner & Professional Dual Strap, 110s have Mimic Gold liner)
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The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion
- Thread starter onenerdykid
- Start date
thanks! figured Id scoop up a pair just to try the new liner, since I allready have all the previous ones + pro liner :p
That is going to be really hard to pin down. One important point is your new boots are XTD with a walk mode. Are you old boots Hawx (without walk mode) or Hawx XTD? Along with walk mode, the XTD's are a light weight plastic and I found more springy and less damped and burly as the normal plastic material (polyurethane). Assuming they are different boots, the flex will be different independent of the flex rating. I am sure you can feel the difference, so it sounds like your new boots feel stiffer.
First place to start is the forward lean setting of the new boots. I would suggest you make it the same as a starting point. Usually more forward lean causes more thigh burn, as a general rule. Forward lean is effected by cuff spoilers installed or not as well as the boot setting.
Lastly, almost anything can cause increased thigh burn. Skiing more spring heavy snow than usual, put on weight due to covid (my cause of thigh burn), going faster due to better boots, all possible explanations.
Thanks for the suggestions and feedback. My original Hawx were neither XTD nor walk mode nor grip walk. They were from maybe 2009 or so. If anything I am skiing slower than I use to and weight is about the same. Biggest variable is the new boot and happens specifically on flats, bottom of mountain, end of runs. Didn’t happen with the original Hawx that were 90 and 100 flex. My new ones are 110 but don’t feel that much stiffer. I am thinking something about the new boot angle, spoiler or as an atomic tech commented perhaps boot needs to be adjusted/tweaked.
Really appreciate the reply and info. Are you suggesting that the metal ski/walk mechanism inhibits flex? That makes sense of course because metal does not flex but I assumed it’s integration points with the shell would. Does this mean ultimately that the ski/walk mechanism does sacrifice some function? Or do you think if properly adjusted I can get back that loving feeling? Out of curiosity, not that I am going to try and make that adjustment, but what adjustment can be made? Thank you!!
Thread Starter
TS
While a Hawx and it's respective XTD version share the same last dimensions & standing geometry, there are construction & material differences between them. One major difference is the addition of an all-metal ski/walk mechanism on the back of the XTD version, which will stiffen the rear portion of the boot.
Depending on which Hawx XTD you have (Ultra or Prime), there are different ways to adjust the forward lean via the ski/walk mechanism. The boot can be made more upright or more forward from it's out of the box configuration.
Thank you very much for the additional info.
Finally managed to try a 29.5 (the shop only had the CS in that size, was after the TI), but not under the eyes of a bootfitter, so I'm going to pester you about it instead if that's okay.
Granted, there's about 5 mm of heel spur to make room for, but doing a shell fit, with the heal touching the back of the shell, my toes were dorsiflexed, riding the front wall of the toe box. Probably about two centimetres of big toe off the boot board.
As for the liner, I had to remove the stock footbed to get into it without splitting the seams across the instep.
Normally, I'd have simply said no, no way this is going to work, and that seems the obvious conclusion - but then there's your confident words, and the tricks of bootfitters. So before I write it off completely, does it still sound worth persevering with, or do I look for alternatives? (The only one is a Lange, but on paper at least the TI makes more sense to me in terms of cuff angle possibilities, boot board design and the Mimic liners.)
What! I was skiing my xtd's the other day and wishing for more forward lean. How is this adjustment made?
Thread Starter
TS
The normal way to assess the length of the shell is to slide your foot forward so that your toes just barely touch the front of the shell and then examine the space behind the heel. A high performance fit is usually in the area of 8-10mm of space behind the heel. That type of fit will usually necessitate a big toe/toe box punch for length and grinding in the needed areas. The next size down from that will be 10mm shorter and usually require more work than it is worth (it's honestly hard to imagine anyone outside of world cup racing to want that).
Thread Starter
TS
1. Remove the liners from the shells.
2. Remove each ski walk mechanism from the back of the boot.
3. Flip the metal mounting plate on the inside of the cuff to the 17° position (the upright, readable setting is the setting you will get).
4. Add Loctite to the treads of the screws and reattach everything.
Thanks, looks like that's me out then. Might look at getting the most out of an RS 30.5 by adding a 30.5 MimicProfesssional liner and adding the HV race tongue. Is the Hawx Mimic Professional Prime liner the same as what goes into a TI in terms of thinness of materials, power transmission, etc. but lasted for a wider foot?
Thread Starter
TS
We label our tongues based on the fit they produce, so the HV tongue produces an HV fit. I would suggest going with the Hawx version of the Mimic Professional liner. Given some of the feedback from a few Lange users, the Redster Mimic Professional liner is better suited for the lower volume boots out there. Current Lange RS boots are quite roomier than previous generations (but it's my understanding that this is changing for the 22/23 season). So, if you are getting a 21/22 Lange RS, the Hawx Mimic Professional liner is probably the best choice for you. It's made with the same tech and materials, but the main liner body is 1.5mm thicker and comes with the MV tongue, which is also thicker than what comes in the Redster liner. It will produce a snugger fit than the Redster version.
Sorry, that wasn't clear. I already have an old RS 130 30.5 that is a good performance fit but is too soft. I'd be trying to convert it into the closest thing to a race boot by adding a 30.5 performance liner that is long and wide enough for my foot. I don't want it to take up volume in the shell, my feet already do that.
Which Mimic liner would that be please?
Re. tongues, I thought I read your racers use an HV tongue. Was it LV?
Thread Starter
TS
Gotcha - if your foot is doing the filling up, then go with a Redster CS Mimic Professional liner. These liners come with the HV tongue, which is what most racers use (but it just depends on the foot/leg profile of the athlete). Sounds like that would be the best option for you.
Thanks. But I don't see them available in my size. (Appreciate you're answering lots of different people about different boots on here, so maybe I should recap. I did a shell fit with a 29.5 Redster CS to check length and my foot is way longer than the boot. I nearly blew the stitches out of the 29.5 liner and had to stop trying to put it on. So to ski anything like a plug, I need to make my old RS Wide stiffer by adding a quality liner in a 30.5. Even then I'll probably need to cut the side away at the 5th met to ski pain free.) Is there a Mimic with a thin racing body that comes in a 30.5?
Tongue - confused now about the HV name for the race tongue if a race boot is supposed to be a low volume boot.
Oh and thanks by the way about the news re. the new Lange fit - ridiculous that it takes the Atomic thread to learn what Lange don't think's worth telling us.
Thread Starter
TS
Ah, yes- sorry. The Redster version only goes up to 29/29.5. The Hawx version (which goes up to 30/30.5) might end of working for you, but you might need to drop down to the HV tongue (the thin option).
Re: HV tongue in a Redster - we build the boots in the way that are most often built for the racers. This can mean odd things that might not make immediate sense. In this case, most racers don't have low-volume feet- they are literally making the boot work for their foot shape. So because they don't have low volume feet, they most often need more space to be made in their boots, so they want the High Volume fitting tongue. And if we spec'ed the Low Volume fit tongue into the already super low-volume fitting shell, most people would be in complete agony haha.
Hi @onenerdykid- ran across a pair of atomic boots with BL at the end of the model name. Full name is "Hawx Prime 110 S GW BL". Haven't seen BL anywhere before and was wondering what it means (if anything). Thanks!
Thread Starter
TS
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