The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

[GregK]

I’d go 178cm and -2 to -2.5cm from the sidewall triangle. Going to mount the 165cm and 178cm CT 1.0 I have at home for friends that are used to more traditional skis at -2.5cm.

Yellow or red bindings would match nicely if you want to colour match. Putting yellow on one set and black on the other as the 165cm owner wants to match her boots rather than the skis

 

[ktish]

Received my CT 1.0 today from The House. Packaging is pretty disappointing. Sierra did a better job packing the 3.0x.

Here's a comparison between the 172 1.0 and 178 3.0x (aligned on the candide mount point triangle). My plan for these is to have them replace my dying Kendo88's for use out on the east coast. Will round out my quiver a bit with a narrower underfoot carving focused ski for bulletproof days and to teach on.

Greg's price update has also been reverted, the house has them listed once again at $509 before any discounts.

 

[GregK]

Those yellow Attacks on the 3.0x look like their AFD is low. I’ll send you a PM on how to check it.

 

[AEV4EV]

I couldn't find my old log in information.

Anyone know of any 2021 3.0s available in 190cm? New

 

[Chuck danache]

Are the 2022 versions worth a look? Anyone skied the 1.0 or 2.0?

 

[GregK]

I couldn't find my old log in information.

Anyone know of any 2021 3.0s available in 190cm? New

Hey AEV, it’s been awhile! Hope things are good with you!!

Last I saw 190cm CT 3.0 in stock was Sport Bittl in Germany but sold out for a few months now and didn’t ship directly to North America. Did a search last night and didn’t come across anything.

Related to your post in the Long Charger skis thread, you might be waiting for the new Black Ops 110 that I heard was tested in 192cm lengths. Was hoping it would be announced as a 22/23 model but maybe it will be a mid/late season release? Have a feeling it will very similar to the 21 CT 3.0 in weight and shape if they just shrink the BO 118/Gamer build.
Also think the 191cm Unleashed 108 could be a lighter, more playful alternative.

 

[GregK]

Are the 2022 versions worth a look? Anyone skied the 1.0 or 2.0?

The 22 CT 2.0/23 Mana 2 are the same shape as the 21 versions and built in a real factory still but they dropped the rubber dampening, 2 sheets of metal underfoot for carbon fibre weaves instead. So the new ones actually flex is actually a touch stiffer but lower longitudinal without the metal but weight goes down 250gr plus over the 21.
So they carve and grip well still but no where close as damp and are tossed around more in variable terrain/crud.

The 22 CT 1.0(no longer available in 23) is more directional now(tail width much narrower than the tip now) and again it loses the metal and rubber dampening and adds carbon to strengthen. Weight drop is closer to 400gr in this ski so not in the same class as the 21 CT 1.0 now. Very similar to their own Prodigy 1.0 so I can see why they dropped it.

The 21 CT 1.0 and 2.0 are very similar in feel as they are the same builds with the CT 2.0 offering a bit better crud and powder performance with it’s slightly added width, heavier weight, deeper rocker and splay and available 188cm length.
The bigger “jump” in feel and soft/powder performance is to the CT 3.0.

The 21 CT 1.0 is the one I’d grab if I had to pick just one of the narrower ones and it’s still available at The-House.com. They are doing a $509 minus 16.39% coupon code price now($425 US) but I’d wait to see if that changes in a few days as it might go cheaper again.
Still nothing coming out this year from any other manufacturer that’s as damp, stable, grips as well yet still playful.

 

[GregK]

Video review of the 23 Mana 2(Same as 22 CT 2.0). Stop me if you’ve heard this before…..
“I’m not usually a twin tip type skier, but I tell you what, these are absolutely amazing!”

Add 300gr to the exact same shape and you have the 21 versions.

 

[mikel]

Yep, pretty familiar with the '19 versions of the CT 2.0 and the Dictator 3.0. Also know a couple of people that work for Faction. Both good skis. Different but good.

 

[cleeskis]

The 22 CT 2.0/23 Mana 2 are the same shape as the 21 versions and built in a real factory still but they dropped the rubber dampening, 2 sheets of metal underfoot for carbon fibre weaves instead. So the new ones actually flex is actually a touch stiffer but lower longitudinal without the metal but weight goes down 250gr plus over the 21.
So they carve and grip well still but no where close as damp and are tossed around more in variable terrain/crud.

The 22 CT 1.0(no longer available in 23) is more directional now(tail width much narrower than the tip now) and again it loses the metal and rubber dampening and adds carbon to strengthen. Weight drop is closer to 400gr in this ski so not in the same class as the 21 CT 1.0 now. Very similar to their own Prodigy 1.0 so I can see why they dropped it.

The 21 CT 1.0 and 2.0 are very similar in feel as they are the same builds with the CT 2.0 offering a bit better crud and powder performance with it’s slightly added width, heavier weight, deeper rocker and splay and available 188cm length.
The bigger “jump” in feel and soft/powder performance is to the CT 3.0.

The 21 CT 1.0 is the one I’d grab if I had to pick just one of the narrower ones and it’s still available at The-House.com. They are doing a $509 minus 16.39% coupon code price now($425 US) but I’d wait to see if that changes in a few days as it might go cheaper again.
Still nothing coming out this year from any other manufacturer that’s as damp, stable, grips as well yet still playful.

Hey GregK. Thanks for all the great info you've posted in this thread. I figured you're the right person for me to ask. I'm in the market for a ~100mm west coast daily driver (Tahoe, Whistler, CO). Currently have a ON3P Jeffrey 110 as my "fat" ski and a 2022 CT 1.0 as my firmer condition playful charger that I bought last season. Other skis I am interested in are the Fischer Ranger 102, Moment Wilcat 101, ON3P Woodsman 102 and hoping to demo the new Nordica Unleashed 98 this season.

I recently stumbled across a deal for the 2022 CT 2.0 that might be too good to pass up. I know you're more versed in the 21 CT line but I was wondering if you could provide some more insight on if the 21 CT 2.0 is worth searching for. Would I benefit more from the 21 CT 2.0 (assuming I can find one)? I really enjoy the 21 1.0's relative dampness, playfulness, carvability, pop, and pivot but is the damper, more chargey 21 that much of a standout?

 

[GregK]

Hey GregK. Thanks for all the great info you've posted in this thread. I figured you're the right person for me to ask. I'm in the market for a ~100mm west coast daily driver (Tahoe, Whistler, CO). Currently have a ON3P Jeffrey 110 as my "fat" ski and a 2022 CT 1.0 as my firmer condition playful charger that I bought last season. Other skis I am interested in are the Fischer Ranger 102, Moment Wilcat 101, ON3P Woodsman 102 and hoping to demo the new Nordica Unleashed 98 this season.

I recently stumbled across a deal for the 2022 CT 2.0 that might be too good to pass up. I know you're more versed in the 21 CT line but I was wondering if you could provide some more insight on if the 21 CT 2.0 is worth searching for. Would I benefit more from the 21 CT 2.0 (assuming I can find one)? I really enjoy the 21 1.0's relative dampness, playfulness, carvability, pop, and pivot but is the damper, more chargey 21 that much of a standout?

Hey @cleeskis. The 22 CT 2.0 would have similar flex, shape and edge grip to the 21 versions but the extra weight, rubber dampening and titanal sheets on the 21 will make it noticeably quieter on the snow and improve the skis suspension.

The 21 CT 2.0 adds about 200-300gr over the 22 CT 2.0/Mana 2 and all of the skis on your list above. So if you love the 21 CT 1.0, the 21 CT 2.0 is just a wider version of it with a bit more weight and a bit more rocker. VERY similar feel.

The Unleashed 98 and 22 CT 2.0 would be the most similar on your list with great grip and carving performance. The Wildcat 101 and ON3P Woodsman won’t have quite the edge grip with their reduced effective edge but are both very easy to pivot and are stable at speed. The new Fisher Ranger 102 is more tapered with softer tips/tails than before so it’s not the precise carver like the older version used to be.

Another one in this range would be the Enforcer 104 that would add more weight and tip/tail taper Vs the Unleashed 98 so it would be a “in between” feel of your existing CT 1.0 and Jeffrey 110.

What size did you need of a 21 CT 2.0 as @ARL67 might still have a set of the 178cm.

 

[cleeskis]

Hey @cleeskis. The 22 CT 2.0 would have similar flex, shape and edge grip to the 21 versions but the extra weight, rubber dampening and titanal sheets on the 21 will make it noticeably quieter on the snow and improve the skis suspension.

The 21 CT 2.0 adds about 200-300gr over the 22 CT 2.0/Mana 2 and all of the skis on your list above. So if you love the 21 CT 1.0, the 21 CT 2.0 is just a wider version of it with a bit more weight and a bit more rocker. VERY similar feel.

The Unleashed 98 and 22 CT 2.0 would be the most similar on your list with great grip and carving performance. The Wildcat 101 and ON3P Woodsman won’t have quite the edge grip with their reduced effective edge but are both very easy to pivot and are stable at speed. The new Fisher Ranger 102 is more tapered with softer tips/tails than before so it’s not the precise carver like the older version used to be.

Another one in this range would be the Enforcer 104 that would add more weight and tip/tail taper Vs the Unleashed 98 so it would be a “in between” feel of your existing CT 1.0 and Jeffrey 110.

What size did you need of a 21 CT 2.0 as @ARL67 might still have a set of the 178cm.

Thanks for the reply, @GregK - super helpful. The 22 CT 2.0 and Unleashed 98 are definitely at the top of my list. I actually considered the Enforcer 104 but figured that it was too close to the Jeffrey 110 in terms of width (not that 2mm would make a world of a difference) and would sacrifice performance in firmer/tracked out conditions.

I enjoy ripping groomers when the conditions are right but also like to go off-piste into the trees and chutes so a healthy balance of soft/stiff mixed with pivotability is needed, especially if I plan on using this as a daily driver in variable conditions. Felt like I really got that with the 22 CT 1.0, albeit not as damp or absorbing as the 21 I assume. I do get airs and like to spin so maybe the lower swing weight in the 22 CT 2.0 isn't a bad thing?

I'm 6'1 185lb with an athletic build so figured I would need the 183cm length at the bare minimum. That brings me to my next question, should I be looking for the 188cm length at all? My Jeffrey is 186cm and that's the longest ski I've been on. There's a Prodigy 2.0 in the 189cm length but I'm not sure if the Prodigy is what I need, especially compared to the CT.

 

[GregK]

@cleeskis When I read your first post I thought you made an typing mistake in saying you had the 22 CT 1.0 earlier in your post as you said near the end of the post that you “really enjoy the 21 1.0 relative dampness…” and “wondered about the damper 21 version” I thought you meant the “damper 21 CT 2.0” Vs 22 CT 2.0.

So if you have the lighter 22 CT 1.0 and like it, the decision for the middle ski is honestly easier-186cm Unleashed 98!
If you had the heavier 21 CT 1.0 version, I was worried that you wouldn’t find it damp or heavy enough so that’s why the Enforcer 104 or 21 CT 2.0 recommendation.
The Unleashed 98 would be perfect for you needs with a very similar, non tapered shape of the CT line so it grips groomers very well but with better sloped tips for soft snow than the 22 CT 2.0. Will be more damp and quiet on the snow than a 22 CT.
I’d still put some beefier bindings on the Unleashed 98 to weigh them down a bit while keeping swing weight down. Choosing a Attack 16 GW vs a 13/14 GW or maybe a pivot 12/14 would be perfect.

Which brings me to your existing 22 CT 1.0…….evil grin…….

The largest difference between the 21 CT line and the 22 line is on the CT 1.0 model. It got narrower, less tip/tail splay, dropped the rubber dampening, 2 sheets of metal, lower turn radius and dropped 400gr which is huge. If you like the 22 CT 1.0, the 21 CT 1.0 is definitely in another league. Would be even more versatile when things get rough in the afternoon and much quieter when it’s firm. Wouldn’t be quite as good in powder or as easy off piste as the Unleashed 98 but would be much closer than your current 22 CT 1.0 would be.
The-House.com has the price on the 21 CT 1.0 back up at $509 again but I’m sure it will go on sale again and would be a super easy recommendation.

 

[cleeskis]

@cleeskis When I read your first post I thought you made an typing mistake in saying you had the 22 CT 1.0 earlier in your post as you said near the end of the post that you “really enjoy the 21 1.0 relative dampness…” and “wondered about the damper 21 version” I thought you meant the “damper 21 CT 2.0” Vs 22 CT 2.0.

So if you have the lighter 22 CT 1.0 and like it, the decision for the middle ski is honestly easier-186cm Unleashed 98!
If you had the heavier 21 CT 1.0 version, I was worried that you wouldn’t find it damp or heavy enough so that’s why the Enforcer 104 or 21 CT 2.0 recommendation.
The Unleashed 98 would be perfect for you needs with a very similar, non tapered shape of the CT line so it grips groomers very well but with better sloped tips for soft snow than the 22 CT 2.0. Will be more damp and quiet on the snow than a 22 CT.
I’d still put some beefier bindings on the Unleashed 98 to weigh them down a bit while keeping swing weight down. Choosing a Attack 16 GW vs a 13/14 GW or maybe a pivot 12/14 would be perfect.

Which brings me to your existing 22 CT 1.0…….evil grin…….

The largest difference between the 21 CT line and the 22 line is on the CT 1.0 model. It got narrower, less tip/tail splay, dropped the rubber dampening, 2 sheets of metal, lower turn radius and dropped 400gr which is huge. If you like the 22 CT 1.0, the 21 CT 1.0 is definitely in another league. Would be even more versatile when things get rough in the afternoon and much quieter when it’s firm. Wouldn’t be quite as good in powder or as easy off piste as the Unleashed 98 but would be much closer than your current 22 CT 1.0 would be.
The-House.com has the price on the 21 CT 1.0 back up at $509 again but I’m sure it will go on sale again and would be a super easy recommendation.

My bad, @GregK , that was indeed a typo. I currently own the 22 CT 1.0. Well, it looks like given my like for the 22 CT 1.0, the 98 Unleashed is right up my alley. I'm glad that you've confirmed my suspicions. Would you go as far to say that I'm better suited for the 98 Unleashed vs 22 CT 2.0? Only reason why its still up for debate is that my local shop has the 22 CT 2.0 for $529 right now.

 

[GregK]

Only reason why its still up for debate is that my local shop has the 22 CT 2.0 for $529 right now.

Those skis were selling here in Canada in April for $520 CAN/$405 US and I just got a back up pair of 21 CT 2.0 for $480 CAN/$375 US.
The Unleashed 98 retail for $800 CAN but you’d probably be able to get them for around $700 CAN/$550 US in the Fall.

Think the Unleashed 98 will be a hair better in softer snow and the 22 CT 2.0 better on groomers with it’s stiffer tips/tails.
I’d try and get the dealer into the $450 range and package a binding/mount package in. You can get Attack 13 95mm brake bindings from $120 US and they are a great value. Attack 16 if they have them even better.

My buddy over today who I got some 21 CT 1.0 for and also have the 22 prodigy 1.0 here too.
The 22 CT 1.0 has the same dimensions and same weight of the 22 Prodigy 1.0 but not sure if they are identical or not.
Curious if your 22 CT 1.0 has the higher thickness tip/tail and lower thickness sidewall underfoot like the rest of the CT line. The Prodigy 1.0 is like almost every ski out there with noticeably lower sidewall height on the tip/tail vs underfoot.

Took pics last week of the 21 CT 1.0 (left) vs the 22 Prodigy 1.0 (right) both in 178cm of the tips and underfoot.

 

[AEV4EV]

Hey AEV, it’s been awhile! Hope things are good with you!!

Last I saw 190cm CT 3.0 in stock was Sport Bittl in Germany but sold out for a few months now and didn’t ship directly to North America. Did a search last night and didn’t come across anything.

Related to your post in the Long Charger skis thread, you might be waiting for the new Black Ops 110 that I heard was tested in 192cm lengths. Was hoping it would be announced as a 22/23 model but maybe it will be a mid/late season release? Have a feeling it will very similar to the 21 CT 3.0 in weight and shape if they just shrink the BO 118/Gamer build.
Also think the 191cm Unleashed 108 could be a lighter, more playful alternative.

I've been hearing about this Black Ops 110 for two years now, and still can't find anything on them.

I feel pretty dumb for not grabbing one of the multiple sets of 2021 3.0s that were available just a year ago.

 

[GregK]

I've been hearing about this Black Ops 110 for two years now, and still can't find anything on them.

I feel pretty dumb for not grabbing one of the multiple sets of 2021 3.0s that were available just a year ago.

Yes, been about 2 seasons of the “longer length BO 118 option and BO 110” coming out.
On a Blister podcast a few months back they were talking about a “highly anticipated prototype in the latest version that was better than the previous one” and instantly knew it was the BO 110 they were talking about.

Just looked and it was Dec 2020 when the first prototype pic was shown of the BO 110.

Faction should feel even dumber for not getting the 21 CT line to Blister for reviewing! Faction would still be selling the heavy versions because of the increased demand.

 

[my07mcx2]

greg, sorry confused, is the 2021-22 ct 2.0 heavier or lighter than the mana 2? thanks!

 

[GregK]

greg, sorry confused, is the 2021-22 ct 2.0 heavier or lighter than the mana 2? thanks!

21 CT are heavier than previous years and went to lighter weights in 22 and now 23.

The lighter 22 CT 2.0 and 22 CT 3.0 are now called the Mana 2 and Mana 3 but are only name and top sheet changes. Exact same ski. With Candide leaving Faction, they changed the name and in his honour, no longer make the CT 5.0. They now have the widest Mana 4 ski(119mm) which is a new ski.

So that Mana 2 review above is a review of the 22 CT 2.0 as it’s the same ski.

 

[GregK]

Was thinking earlier today about the original Blister Review podcast I heard back in 2020 about the changes to Manufacturing of Faction skis but knew I was forgetting about the crucial staff changes just before that. Gave it another listen and it REALLY makes sense why these skis were so different from their previous skis and why they carve and perform so well.

Josh Cohen the Product Manager who has been with Faction since the beginning(2006) said that the 2 most important events in Faction’s history were signing Candide Thovex and bringing in Engineer Daniel Tanner around 2018.
Daniel worked for Fisher Skis from 2004-2007 and was responsible for creating the first symmetrical twin tip ski. He then was one of the 8 staff members that restarted the Kastle brand in 2007. He then went on to work at Scott from 2010 until he got a call from the Faction CEO to come work for them around 2018.
Daniel then brought in Oliver Binder who was the Co-Founder/R&D Director/Head of IT and Head of operations at Kastle from 2007-2015. Oliver is now the lead Engineer at Faction skis.
They also brought in Sara Asmoarp who was a former Volvo engineer who is now Faction's full-time Quality and Sustainability Manager.

So 2 Engineers responsible for designing and creating all the original Kastle MX 78, MX 88 MX 98 and RX skis are now creating skis with the feedback of one of the best Freeride skiers out there. They were focused on making skis that last and not having the reliability issues that plagued older Factions so over definitely “over spec’d” the 21 versions. Then the vast experience within the Fisher ski manufacturing plants helped their designs come to fruition.

So I’ve always thought of the CT 1.0 and CT 2.0 as “twin tip all mountain carving” skis and seeing as they came from the minds of the engineers who created the Kastle MX 88 and MX 98 it now makes even more sense!