California/Nevada 23/24 Palisades Parking Plans

[Philpug]

From our friends at Unoffical Alpine and @Unmarkedobstacles

Parking: More Questions Than Answers In Latest Announcement

Palisades Tahoe finally made an announcement today regarding their plans for paid reservation parking at Alpine Meadows and Palisades Tahoe. It’s an announcement that many have been waiting f…

unofficialalpine.com

 

[fatbob]

Hmm. Thanks for the pass money, now pay again please. Let's hope Alterra are diverting every $ to fund buses and remote lots, otherwise its screw over core skier time.

 

[Brian Finch]

Hmm. Thanks for the pass money, now pay again please. Let's hope Alterra are diverting every $ to fund buses and remote lots, otherwise its screw over core skier time.

Word is that Alterra is trying desperately to convert a dated Steamboat into a hallmark destination- all others just feed into to coffers.

 

[Wasatchman]

They got us over a barrel. all the large resorts are likely to convert to a paid parking model just like sporting venues, concerts, and amusement parks.

I'm glad Powdr's Fast Pass BS hasn't caught on.

Supply is fixed and demand is high and growing. A duopoly dominates the industry now. That means we gotta pay the man to get our ski fix at the large resorts.

 

[Unpiste]

Whatever you think of the logistics here, I'm having a hard time thinking of any word other than "bait and switch" to describe the timing of this announcement. The way this was handled is really disrespectful to everyone who's already bought a season pass.

This should have been sorted in March, not announced after Memorial day. Barring that, the crowding issue alone could have been addressed with a free reservation system this year, followed by paid parking the following season. Barring that, they could have at least announced pricing and explained whether season parking passes will be an option rather than leaving us guessing.

Mark's thoughts are spot-on here. Something definitely needed to be done. I don't think this was quite the way to do it, though.

Ultimately, it really seems like higher priced passes combined with day ticket rates that aren't a complete non-starter for most non-skiers is a much better way to address crowding. 100,000 pass sales within a 4 hour drive does not seem sustainable.

 

[Tricia]

I'm trying really hard to be unbiased on this topic.
There are a few things rolling around in my head, like...

• Parking reservations will be required on Saturdays and Sundays and holiday blackout periods from mid-December through March (and possibly April).

So this means this will be implemented during the usual "peak" times, and will likely impact those who are weekend warriors and/or holiday vacationers the most.


And this...

• No details have been announced about what carpooling incentives might look like.

I'm hoping that carpooling will still be incentivized.

It appears that the goal is to assist those who NEED to be there for work, teams and other such reasons, however, this doesn't answer the conga line on 89

• There will be some exceptions to the reservations requirement. Mentioned specifically in this announcement were: Achieve Tahoe, Palisades Tahoe employees, ski team families, village commercial tenants and their employees.

Mark does make it clear that he does not know what the cost of parking will be. I sincerely hope its not 30-50.00 Yikes!

If the costs are that high and the carpooling incentives are tanked, I know we'll plan our skiing at PV accordingly.

But then...We only skied there a few times before April this year due to a busy SkiTalk schedule, and the ease of getting to Mt Rose.

Question to the masses;
Does this make a Sugar Bowl, Mt Rose or Diamond Peak Pass look tempting?

 

[Unpiste]

This announcement does have me thinking about Kirkwood for day trips. It looks like most of their parking is still free.

 

[Philpug]

Official Page:

Looking Forward: New Solutions to Traffic Impacts for the 2023/24 Season - Palisades Tahoe at Lake Tahoe

In response to traffic impacts experienced over the past winter, we plan to implement new traffic and parking solutions on weekends and holidays during the 2023/24 winter season. Our goal is to reduce arrival and departure traffic impacts experienced by guests, employees, and our community...

blog.palisadestahoe.com

 

[Philpug]

I am not sure why they would come out with this announcement when it is no where near completely thought out. There is way too much partial information that as we can see creates many more questions than answers.

If this WAS about controlling traffic, there would have been much more emphasis on car pooling and mass trans. If this was about controlling traffic, this would have been addressed before installing the B2B gondola and money would have been directed towards buses before the B2B.

I am surprised and disappointed in this initial announcement, I think Palisades is just not ready and prepared for this.

 

[Wasatchman]

I am not sure why they would come out with this announcement when it is no where near completely thought out. There is way too much partial information that as we can see creates many more questions than answers.

If this WAS about controlling traffic, there would have been much more emphasis on car pooling and mass trans. If this was about controlling traffic, this would have been addressed before installing the B2B gondola and money would have been directed towards buses before the B2B.

I am surprised and disappointed in this initial announcement, I think Palisades is just not ready and prepared for this.

It is not clearly written. I'm inferring that on weekdays there will be some free parking available to pass holders but weekends are paid only for everyone. But it's not well written. And they don't mention cost. They are probably figuring out how much they can extort from their patrons which I'm guessing is quite a lot. $30-50 on weekends seems quite achievable if I had to guess given the average clientele. Weekdays will probably be a lower rate.

It is a money grab. If there is a silver lining, when Alta went to a weekend reservation system it dramatically helped traffic and parking. Unfortunately I think the future of all Western resorts is going to be paid parking of some sort.

 

[Brian Finch]

I am not sure why they would come out with this announcement when it is no where near completely thought out. There is way too much partial information that as we can see creates many more questions than answers.

If this WAS about controlling traffic, there would have been much more emphasis on car pooling and mass trans. If this was about controlling traffic, this would have been addressed before installing the B2B gondola and money would have been directed towards buses before the B2B.

I am surprised and disappointed in this initial announcement, I think Palisades is just not ready and prepared for this.

I think the industry is struggling to come up w legit sources of new revenue- we blew thru real estate, ruined ski school, exploited mass passes & now it’s time for parking.

I’d rather see the industry profit off of the F&B or incentivize midweek skiing to be profitable.

 

[Wasatchman]

I’d rather see the industry profit of the F&B or incentivize midweek skiing to be profitable.

F&B?? I'm not sure how much more a lot of places can charge. F&B is already priced high and quite profitable already.

But parking is ripe for revenue generation unfortunately. And they have the pricing power to jam us.

 

[Philpug]

I think the industry is struggling to come up w legit sources of new revenue- we blew thru real estate, ruined ski school, exploited mass passes & now it’s time for parking.

I’d rather see the industry profit off of the F&B or incentivize midweek skiing to be profitable.

Next will be pass upgrades for certain lifts during certain times.

Big Sky: Hold my beer.

 

[Tricia]

this doesn't answer the conga line on 89

when Alta went to a weekend reservation system it dramatically helped traffic and parking.

I'm interested to hear how you think it helped traffic in LCC.
All the stories I heard were that it was still rough.
Parking is one thing but the traffic on these two lane roads getting to resorts is problematic.

 

[Philpug]

There is a short sitedness that the ski industry is experiencing right now that is just not healthy for long term growth. They are so intent on short term profits that they are ignoring long term growth, they are pricing out future skiers. This is not just the parking situation but many of the things that @Brian Finch pointed out too. While skiing used to have it's mystique with the rich, it was also accessable for the every day family, that is just not the case any more. I am really fearing for the health of the sport especially considering that our livelyhood is based on it.

 

[Brian Finch]

F&B?? I'm not sure how much more a lot of places can charge. F&B is already priced high and quite profitable already.

Our home hill is Stratton, an Alterra resort, it’s not uncommon for them to turn away more ppl than they serve. On busy weekends, they run out of trays, cups, silverware & plates.

I’d have a Tshirt gun launching burritos & optimize grab n go.

Unfortunately a quality chef or supervisor costs $$$ while a parking attendant is $15/hour,

Actually had a successful restaurant owner as a client. He owns / trains for chains. It’s so poor, he offered a week of his services for free to improve the situation & offered several times. He was turned down each time.

 

[luliski]

Question to the masses;
Does this make a Sugar Bowl, Mt Rose or Diamond Peak Pass look tempting?

Makes me happy I got my Sugar Bowl pass, although I bought I bought to avoid having to go over Donner Summit on days when that’s a mess. I don’t usually ski weekends, so I have only experienced Alpine/Palisades parking problems on powder days. If I stay overnight up there I stay where I can drive in from the south/east.

 

[davjr96]

Here's my thinking about how this might "help" traffic from a weekend warrior. Last season, if you did not show up around 8 to get a parking spot you were basically screwed. Most people were figuring this out, this meant everyone was on the road at the same time trying to get to the resort before parking filled. Going forward with reservations, spots will be "guaranteed" and as such there won't be an "arms race" to get to the parking lot before it fills up. You can show up at 9:30-10am and still get parking. I know the masses will much prefer that to the rushing to get out the door at 7am. It will spread out the load of traffic when people know they have a spot. It will not help on Powder days.

The lack of details is annoying, and I really wish they would offer a "season parking pass" that would guarantee a spot every weekend. It sucks that it is so expensive and likely pricing people out of the sport but at the same time I would happily through money at the problem and to avoid waking up at 3:30am like I had to do this season to make it up from the bay.

 

[Philpug]

We spent many of years going to A-Basin for Mothers day and we would get a beach spot. Initially the sports were $150 and now they can be over $300. So, the "paid parking" in the main lot by the drop off was only $20 so we pulled in with two cars, so for $40 we got two spots. We unloaded and pulled one out and set up our BBQ, tent, skis, ect. the parking attendant said that we had to move our stuff, I asked "Why, we paid for the spot? He tried to expain that he needs to resell it. I explained that we paid for it and no where did it say it was only for a certain time limit. He again tried to expain how it worked and I showed him my reciept and asked where that was written on it. Needless to say, we kept our spot. What is to stop this from happening at Palisades or someone leaving at 10:00 and selling their voucher? You paid for that spot, IMHO it is yours to do with for the day.

 

[Alexzn]

Random order commentaries:

1. This system unfortunately screws Squaw's most dedicated customers. If you come here a few weekends a year, you can manage the reservations, and the added cost will be noticeable but not a game changer. If you are a ski team family, you are already paying Squaw through the roof. For many of us who ski 40-50 days a year, that (a) almost triples the cost of skiing, and (b) makes it a huge hassle to keep making those reservations.
2. I will be happy to pay a reasonable amount (~$500-$700) for a season parking pass just to avoid the hassle of making those reservations over and over. This is really my main complaint about the new system. I expect that getting a parking reservation for a major holiday or a powder day will be worse than getting a Taylor Swift concert ticket. I just don't need this stress. Mark is indeed correct that it will be a hit for people on fixed income. Expect weekdays to become more popular among locals with flexible work schedules and retirees.
3. One of the best features of a season pass has always been its zero opportunity cost aspect. If you are not sure about the weather, you could come out for two runs, and if it sucked or you didn't feel like it, you could just go home. Now you will be out the parking fee. Still cheaper than the lift ticket, but not zero. I suspect this is one of the additional drivers for this system, eliminate people who drive a car alone to the resort just for a few morning runs.
4. They are talking about penalizing people who do not use their reservations up to pass suspension. This is ridiculous, what if I slipped on my driveway in the morning going to the hill and hurt my hip (if that sounds weirdly specific, well, you know...)?
5. Marks' (@unofficialalpine) solution of a resort-specific pass for 24-25 does not make any sense in light of his comment that PT is the only option for 100,000 people within 4-hour drive of the resort. How does that solve the problem, other than charging people more for the PT-specific pass (that is actually what they do at Windham, NY, so that is definitely a possibility)?
6. I still think this system will have a major positive impact on the morning congestion on 89 (unless it is a pow day), people will not have to get up at 6 am just to get a parking spot. Traffic will be spread out over more hours, that will be a major plus. Breakfast burrito sales will drop like a stone, and a lot less sh&t will be flushed down PT sewer pipes. Also a definite positive.
7. It is irritating to just read about their "plans" for transit solutions. Where are the parking lots in Truckee that would hold all those cars? Despite years of constant talk about regional transit solutions they remain (and will likely remain) non-existent. They cannot even figure out employee shuttles.
8. I still have friends whose kids are still in the ski team. I guess they will become a lot more popular next season ;-).
9. I am curious how that will go over. Squaw did try to put in place restricted carpool parking a few years ago, which more or less failed; that system is still formally there but is simply not enforced.
10. Ultimately, Mark is correct on at least one point, Alterra needs another big resort in the Tahoe areas (most logically, Sugar Bowl with a potential lift connection through Granite Chief). As far as I know it's not for sale.

11.* The overall outcome is that your skiing just got way, way more expensive.