4241 Club at Killington - how much instruction is it really?

[TheArchitect]

For a few years now I've threatening to take lessons to help get rid of the bad habits in my technique but haven't gone through with it. I think this is the year and I'm hoping for some advice. I have an Ikon pass so I'd like to go to an Ikon resort and have been looking at Killington, Sugarbush and Sunday River. I see that Killington has the 4241 club which is 12 days for $750 which from a cost POV blows away the competition. The question is how much coaching do you actually get in that club? Has anyone here participated or know someone who has?

 

[Tony S]

For a few years now I've threatening to take lessons to help get rid of the bad habits in my technique but haven't gone through with it. I think this is the year and I'm hoping for some advice. I have an Ikon pass so I'd like to go to an Ikon resort and have been looking at Killington, Sugarbush and Sunday River. I see that Killington has the 4241 club which is 12 days for $750 which from a cost POV blows away the competition. The question is how much coaching do you actually get in that club? Has anyone here participated or know someone who has?

Aren't you doing ski week at Taos?

 

[TheArchitect]

Aren't you doing ski week at Taos?

I wanted to but can't this year. We're really busy at work and I can't take the time for both the Taos and Aspen gatherings.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Paging @guyinshorts!

 

[dbostedo]

I changed the thread title from "coaching" to "instruction". "Coaching" typically refers to race coaching in most threads, so I thought this made it clearer.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

For a few years now I've threatening to take lessons to help get rid of the bad habits in my technique but haven't gone through with it. I think this is the year and I'm hoping for some advice. I have an Ikon pass so I'd like to go to an Ikon resort and have been looking at Killington, Sugarbush and Sunday River. I see that Killington has the 4241 club which is 12 days for $750 which from a cost POV blows away the competition. The question is how much coaching do you actually get in that club? Has anyone here participated or know someone who has?

While I can’t speak specifically to the 4241 club, I can give you my perspective from experience with the Breckenridge Club program. That program meets 8-10 times during the winter and groups usually no more than 4 skiers and an instructor for the day according to the level. To make a long story short, I was able to join a group once when an instructor wasn’t available for my “group” lesson. The four of us were all level 9 (top level) in Epic Ski School and we basically free skied with the instructor who provided a small amount of coaching. The amount of coaching perhaps was slightly less than what I get when I take level 9 group lessons (which are typically me and one other student and the coach). With regard to Killington Ski School, there are a number of very good instructors there - whether they are participating in the 4241 program on a given day would depend on their private lesson bookings

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Well... without having gotten a first hand reply, I'll throw in my 2 cents. First of all, I have the impression that there will be some very good coaches. Maybe some that are semi-retired and do this program only. When I looked at your link, one of the first things they mention is line cuts. I would not be surprised at all if some of the coaches and many of the participants are doing 4241 solely to cut lines. With that said, I imagine that if you advocate for yourself you will find a willing coach and participants that do want to do some work on their skiing. Me personally, as a coach I kind of hate line cut privates. If I wanted to free ski, I'd just go free ski but without the "clients". Anyway, the price is right, there's definitely a reason we don't offer that at Stowe.

 

[PinnacleJim]

No direct experience with the 4241 program, but I suspect Wannabeskibum's perspective is pretty close. And yes there are some very good advanced level instructors at Killington. I am sure you would get your money's worth from this program.

 

[VickieH]

If I was looking at a program like that, I would call the director of the ski school and get their word that the program will deliver what I wanted. Maybe I'd then be assigned to a certain group or certain instructor. Or maybe I'd have to shop elsewhere.

If, after that, I didn't get what I signed up for, I'd call the director a second time and request a full refund.

I broke my string of bad luck with instructors by talking to the ski school director.

 

[TheArchitect]

I changed the thread title from "coaching" to "instruction". "Coaching" typically refers to race coaching in most threads, so I thought this made it clearer.

No problem. Coaching was the word the Killington webpage used so I used it as well.

 

[mikel]

I would check with them and see if they offer a 1 day drop in price. Might be better to see 1st hand if it's something you would be interested in. Coaching is the word used so I'm guessing at best it would be no more than a group lesson. I'm also guessing there could be a level of just socializing and casual skiing around the mountain. I was trying to compare it to the Over the Hill Gang group at Copper but it sounds different.

 

[TheArchitect]

Well... without having gotten a first hand reply, I'll throw in my 2 cents. First of all, I have the impression that there will be some very good coaches. Maybe some that are semi-retired and do this program only. When I looked at your link, one of the first things they mention is line cuts. I would not be surprised at all if some of the coaches and many of the participants are doing 4241 solely to cut lines. With that said, I imagine that if you advocate for yourself you will find a willing coach and participants that do want to do some work on their skiing. Me personally, as a coach I kind of hate line cut privates. If I wanted to free ski, I'd just go free ski but without the "clients". Anyway, the price is right, there's definitely a reason we don't offer that at Stowe.

Yeah, the line cutting was one of the reasons I was wondering about whether this program might be less focused on instruction and more an ability to rack up vertical. Hard to know I guess.

If I was looking at a program like that, I would call the director of the ski school and get their word that the program will deliver what I wanted. Maybe I'd then be assigned to a certain group or certain instructor. Or maybe I'd have to shop elsewhere.

If, after that, I didn't get what I signed up for, I'd call the director a second time and request a full refund.

I broke my string of bad luck with instructors by talking to the ski school director.

I agree and would call to discuss before signing up. The advantage of this program is financial compared to Sugarbush and Sunday River but ultimately it's about me getting the instruction I want. I'm sure Killington has some great instructors but whether they're part of 4241 and able to provide what I need is another question entirely.

I haven't taken a lesson in 40 years (gulp) so after sleeping on it the better decision might be to start with a 1 on 1 private lesson to get an assessment of where I stand before immediately jumping into a 12 day program with a group. That opens up the options to Sugarbush and Sunday River as well. I'm sure all three have good instructors.

 

[Tony S]

If I was looking at a program like that, I would call the director of the ski school and get their word that the program will deliver what I wanted. Maybe I'd then be assigned to a certain group or certain instructor. Or maybe I'd have to shop elsewhere.

If, after that, I didn't get what I signed up for, I'd call the director a second time and request a full refund.

I broke my string of bad luck with instructors by talking to the ski school director.

+1

 

[TheArchitect]

So after thinking this through and exchanging a few PM's I think the best approach is for me to find someone for a 1-on-1 private lesson, ideally at Sugarbush or Killington. Too bad Stowe isn't on Ikon (or cheaper for private lessons!). Our yellow-jacketed friend @KevinF is living proof of how good a certain instructor is there.

For the first time I regret not having an Epic pass for Stowe and Okemo.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Good friend has been doing this club for awhile. She gets to ski with a group of fairly good skiers across our amazing terrain on a dozen Saturdays. Lift lines are not really an issue at Killington so paying for line cutting as you primary reason is foolish.

One of my ski bum race teammates acts as a coach for the program. She is a PSIA level 3 and very qualified coach.

Finding a group of folks that you are comfortable skiing with seems to be main driver paired with some added guidance from ski school is just what many are looking for. Very attractive price.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

So not necessarily intensive instruction?

For that in this format I think Mermer Blakeslee's Power Learn at Windham is hard to beat. It's 10 times the price though and I don't know what pass they are on (not that it matter is you are paying 6K for the season). If someone has the money and wants a product that will work, I'd do that for sure.

 

[TheArchitect]

Good friend has been doing this club for awhile. She gets to ski with a group of fairly good skiers across our amazing terrain on a dozen Saturdays. Lift lines are not really an issue at Killington so paying for line cutting as you primary reason is foolish.

One of my ski bum race teammates acts as a coach for the program. She is a PSIA level 3 and very qualified coach.

Finding a group of folks that you are comfortable skiing with seems to be main driver paired with some added guidance from ski school is just what many are looking for. Very attractive price.

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like a good deal but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. At least not when it comes to the instruction part.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

The Killington Ski Club runs a season long masters class. Requires club membership. Instruction is lead by Doug Tucker. My mogul coach and his wife swear by it. This is the high level instruction that you crave.

 

[James]

The Killington Ski Club runs a season long masters class. Requires club membership. Instruction is lead by Doug Tucker. My mogul coach and his wife swear by it. This is the high level instruction that you crave.

Are you talking about the “Skillfuls” program or the “Masters Racing” ?

 

[whumber]

For a few years now I've threatening to take lessons to help get rid of the bad habits in my technique but haven't gone through with it. I think this is the year and I'm hoping for some advice. I have an Ikon pass so I'd like to go to an Ikon resort and have been looking at Killington, Sugarbush and Sunday River. I see that Killington has the 4241 club which is 12 days for $750 which from a cost POV blows away the competition. The question is how much coaching do you actually get in that club? Has anyone here participated or know someone who has?

It depends on which group you pick. There are a few groups that are very much focused on instruction all season long, other groups that are primarily social and use the group to cut lines while skiing together, and others that are somewhere in between. You also have the option to ski with different groups whenever you like, you aren't locked into any group.