Advice on new AT rig and resort touring setup needed

[PowHog]

Ok here are my questions then since I am in the market for a new AT rig. To clarify, I never used tech/pin binders or boot before.

First one:
Just purchased a light carbon touring ski for mainly mountaineering purpose (wanna get back into it). Weight is a key factor for me here so will definitely throw a pin binding on it. Was looking into one of the four listed. I know there are lighter options out there but the binder should be rigid and hold up some hard use, especially with heavier backpack. Some research on various sites brought up the following caveats:
- Fritschi Tectrons or Vipecs -> issues with lack of forward boot tilt due to collision with toe piece on some boots, restricting switchbacks and walking mode
- Marker Kingpins -> issues with reliability/breakage
- Salomon Shifts -> prone to pre release, heavier. Honestly like the concept though.
Thoughtful insight from long term users of such binders would be appreciated. Also I'd need a lightweight but stable AT boot with decent downhill performance along with it since my old one don't have pin inserts.

Second one:
Like to convert a resort dedicated ski for occasional touring (up to maybe 3000 ft vertical, not more). Due to limited baggage to carry the current options I am looking into are
- Shift binder with alpine boot converted to pins for the uphill
- Just sack up and get a Duke/Baron/F12 frame binding as on some of my other skis and use the existing alpine boot
- Look into the new Duke (breaking issues?)

I read through the Alpine/Hybrid Touring thread but are looking for the more recent opinions. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[AlpedHuez]

I read through the Alpine/Hybrid Touring thread but are looking for the more recent opinions.

I think you will find your answers in that thread, if not from that thread already. One of the more active threads on this site.

My personal touring quiver is a V-Werks Mantra with Duke PT 16, and a Corvus Freebird with Shifts.

I am resort-touring biased, so I don’t feel the need for a purely backcountry pin-binding setup, and don’t mind the extra weight of the hybrids.

 

[Primoz]

I'm sure I'm probably the only one with such opinion, but... If you go with "light carbon touring ski", then it's really huge overkill to put something like Shift, Kingpins or even Tectons/Vipec on them. My "light" skis for spring, steep skiing are Rossi Seek7 mounted with Rossi's version of Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0. I don't ski slow, I don't ski easy, and with 75kg (plus equipment) I'm not lightest one of all, yet I have nothing bad to say of this binding. It has 2 things that I don't really like. One is, it's missing brakes, and as I don't like those leashes for several reasons, you need to be a bit carefull not to lose ski, and second is, the way how it climbing aids operate (you need to rotate whole heel), but once you get used to it, it's no big deal. With 50% weight of Vipecs (and less then 50% of anything else), it's for me only choice for "light carbon touring ski". I'm sure someone else will disagree, but if I'm getting skis that are less then 1.5kg/ski, and ski worse then heavier skis, then I want light binding too. For me ski matters more then binding when it comes to "ski quality".

 

[Rod9301]

The best place to save weight is in the binding.
One like salomon mtn is bomber and it will drive any ski.

I ski the katana 112 everywhere in the bc and my wife, great steep skier, the mantra.

Boots, went from zero g 130 to hoji free 130, skis better and walks much better

 

[ScottB]

You have a light ski, I agree with Primoz you should put a lightweight pin binding on it. Save the shift binding for your item #2, inbounds ski. You kind of contradict yourself on item #1 with saying you want lightweight but list the heaviest pin binding options on the market. I don't know pin bindings, but check Blister Review for their reviews of a number of pin bindings. There is a new one out that they love and is lightweight and sounds like its what you want. I don't remember the name or brand.

You should also get a new 50/50 touring boot such as the Technica Zero G, Atomic Ultra XTD, or whatever your flavor of touring boot / weight / downhill capability meets your use model. Don't bother with frame bindings and alpine boots, make use of your item 1 equipment (the boots) to go with a shift.

 

[Snowflake2420]

For the mountaineering ski I'd recommend Marker Alpinist bindings, I've been very impressed with how well they ski. I much prefer them to Dynafit. If you're going all in on a light touring set up I think it's important the whole system works together and that includes appropriate weight boots. I realize it's a big investment to get multiple set ups, especially boots.

 

[PowHog]

Thanks everyone for chiming i so far. Apologies for a separate thread, I thought this would provide more answers than if just hidden within the other one.

'If you're going all in on a light touring set up I think it's important the whole system works together and that includes appropriate weight boots. I realize it's a big investment to get multiple set ups, especially boots.' @ Skifiore: Sadly you are absolutely right here.

@Primoz: agree with you here. If only the lightweight binders would come with an alpine heel piece instead. Would love to ski Slovenia one day btw....
@ScottB: thanks for confirming, a friend of mine also recommended the Technica but will look into the Atomic too.
@Rod9301: thanks, will have a look at them.

I got a 180 Dynastar M Verticals 2 days ago and this is probably as light of a ski as it can get for that stiffness. Will look into the other lightweigth binding options mentioned although I am not a huge fan of the pin heel pieces.

Any additional suggestions on which AT boot would complement that setup weight wise? I understand AT boots that ski more like an alpine one are on the heavy side too whereas lightweight ones don't really cut it when skiing - which is still an important criterion for me. I prefer a stiffer shell (120+) but light enough and with a good walking mode to do long slogs in. From past experience Atomic boots/shells often came closest for best fit when trying on. I got a pretty flat instep and 7.5 boot size, so pretty small.

@AlpedHuez: what's your experience with the Marker PT16 so far? Was looking into the PT12 as the resort touring binder instead of the Shifts until I stumbles across THIS thread over at TGR.

 

[Primoz]

@PowHog I'm not 100% sure now, but based on just quick look for Dynastar M Verticals on their web, I would actually say it's pretty much exactly same (or very close) ski as my Rossi Seek7. I admit I was never real fan of pin bindings, but they work good for what I use this ski. And they fit perfect with their weight to weight of the ski.

For boots, I have two... one is Atomic Hawx ultra xtd 130, the other Dynafit TLT. I know I should say I use Dynafit all the time with these skis, but I don't. I use them when it's mostly about going up or long flat tours, but when it's about skiing, and for me in 90% it is about skiing, even if it includes hour or two on crampons and with ice axes in hands to climb to top, I prefer Atomic, even if they are heavier, because with these boots, Seek7 and Speed Turn bindings actually ski pretty great. With Dynafit they really don't, but neither ski or binding would ski good with boots that feel like sleepers and that are soft as chewing gum.

 

[AlpedHuez]

@AlpedHuez: what's your experience with the Marker PT16 so far? Was looking into the PT12 as the resort touring binder instead of the Shifts until I stumbles across THIS thread over at TGR.

No issues yet. Just resort touring for me so far.

 

[Noodler]

Just a point of correction on the Fritschi Tecton/Vipec toe piece issue. Fritschi has fixed that concern in the latest iteration of the toe piece. It no longer interferes with the front of the boot or can cause the boot front to get dented.

 

[firebanex]

I did a ton of resort touring this year because my local area was only open for resort touring. Don't get a frame binding. I was using the Salomon s/lab MTN boots and using Black Diamond Boundary Pro 107s and a Renoun Endurance 98 with Shifts, works just fine for the 1300' laps we have. I wouldn't over think the resort pair, just stick some Shifts on a pair of skis you like and use a 50/50 boot with pin inserts.

Now the actual touring set up should go full on pin bindings with the Vipecs being the heaviest choice in your list and should really pick something lighter.

 

[Slim]

I’m with @Primoz , a “light Carbon ski” “for (ski)mountaineering” get’s a lightweight tech binding.

Maybe a Vipec Evo, for safety’s sake.
More likely, any in of the pure tech bindings: Any ATK(or rebranded), Plum, Ski Trab, Dynafit Speed models, Marker Alpinist, Salomn/Atomic Mtn, etc.
350g/foot max.

 

[Slim]

For a boot on the ‘more down than up’ focused side of things, remember that several of them have Gripwalk soles, not regular, full rubber AT soles. This means there is a plastic section under the middle of the foot. In some kinds of terrain (blocky rocks), this might feel less secure.

The Atomic Hawx XTD would be the first one of that kind that comes to mind.

 

[PowHog]

Thanks again everyone thus far, good stuff.

AT setup: will look into an MTN or Vipec, don't have much confidence into the ultra light uphill race binders or what is close to that.

Re boots: While I like a solid downhill performance I don't want too much weight penalty either, else I probably shouldn't be concerned about binders weight either. So far I narrowed it down to Zero Gs, Hojis, Dynafit Radical Pros or Scarpa Maestrale XT, depending on which one fits best. Prefer a full Vibram rubber sole, not gripwalk.

Resort touring set-up: not decided yet which way to go.

Else feel welcome to keep the suggestions coming.

 

[Noodler]

Thanks again everyone thus far, good stuff.

AT setup: will look into an MTN or Vipec, don't have much confidence into the ultra light uphill race binders or what is close to that.

Re boots: While I like a solid downhill performance I don't want too much weight penalty either, else I probably shouldn't be concerned about binders weight either. So far I narrowed it down to Zero Gs, Hojis, Dynafit Radical Pros or Scarpa Maestrale XT, depending on which one fits best. Prefer a full Vibram rubber sole, not gripwalk.

Resort touring set-up: not decided yet which way to go.

Else feel welcome to keep the suggestions coming.

If you don't have to pull the trigger now on the boots, keep an eye on the new 2022 Fischer Transalp series. Initial reviews are that they feel more like a traditional PU alpine boot, but are incredibly light and strong.

 

[James]

I'm sure I'm probably the only one with such opinion, but... If you go with "light carbon touring ski", then it's really huge overkill to put something like Shift, Kingpins or even Tectons/Vipec on them.

I’ve only been looking at this stuff for a season and this is obvious to me. Seems to me light carbon skis are for the way up. You deal with the way down.
For light and maybe more “burly”, the ATK Raider 12 with the freeride pads. Or the ATK Freerider 14 if the min DIN works for you. That comes with the pads. Those are rebranded from Hagen and the Moment Voyager. Someone else too I think.

 

[Slim]

@PowHog the Salomon/Atomic Mtn binding is on the less featured side: fixed U heel spring.
Why would you consider that binding, and not any others in similar weight/features class?
(I read good reviews about that binding (without brakes), probably a fine choice, I just mean why you would discount other brands/models)

 

[Slim]

And don’t forget the new Dalbello Quantum Free line, some early release models out now, more next season.

Quantum Free | Dalbello Live | Dalbello

www.dalbello.it

 

[PowHog]

@PowHog the Salomon/Atomic Mtn binding is on the less featured side: fixed U heel spring. Why would you consider that binding, and not any others in similar weight/features class?

As you said based on positive reputation. The Dynafits are the ones I keep hearing mixed reviews of. Also despite the added weight what I like about the Tectrons is the heel piece and overall rigidity which adds to safety in particular when slugging a heavy backpack with rope, crampons, slings, ice srews and axes ect. The whole system weight could eventually add up to north of 200 lbs on a multi day tour, not a situation where you like to depend on borderline minimalism for the sake of 200 grams per ski.
Will look at the Dalbellos too.

If you don't have to pull the trigger now on the boots, keep an eye on the new 2022 Fischer Transalp series. Initial reviews are that they feel more like a traditional PU alpine boot, but are incredibly light and strong.

Thanks for the heads up. Can afford to wait so will check them out. My old Nordica touring boot is close to 2000g so whatever I choose will be an improvement.

@PowHog I'm not 100% sure now, but based on just quick look for Dynastar M Verticals on their web, I would actually say it's pretty much exactly same (or very close) ski as my Rossi Seek7.

Similar shape but different construction. The M Verticals are particularly stiff and torsionally rigid which helps on icy steeps with a heavier backpack, soft snow performance is not their prime focus.

@James uphill and a solid edgehold on the way down is indeed the focus here.

 

[James]

Why I would eliminate the Dynastar-

Worthless draggy bases. Just Say No.

Older Seek 7-