All-Mountain skis for a fast fifty-something?

Ron

Seeking the next best ski
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Posts
8,894
Location
Steamboat Springs, Co
well, kinda, sorta'. Renoun presses their skis in the same factory as a few other Indies, as does Icelantic (never summer) so im not so sure where you press your skis makes them Indies. so is indie the same as boutique? :).
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,811
Location
Ontario, Canada
Dynafit, Scott, Armada, Black Crows, Black Diamond, Amplid, Faction, Movement, Majesty, HD Skis, JSkis, RMU, 4FRNT, Icelantic, Lib Tech, Line (and some DPS) all made in someone else’s manufacturing plant. So quite a bit more than people realize!
 

Quandary

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Posts
296
Location
Colorado
Most of those I would consider to big to be an Indy. In addition, my view, to be a true Indy you have to build your own. ON3P, Praxis, Folsom, Meier, Shaggy's, Wagner etc, etc. But that's a another thread.
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,811
Location
Ontario, Canada
Most of those I would consider to big to be an Indy. In addition, my view, to be a true Indy you have to build your own. ON3P, Praxis, Folsom, Meier, Shaggy's, Wagner etc, etc. But that's a another thread.
Agree they are kinda in-between an Indy and Major Brand. Medium brand?:huh:
 

ScottB

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
1,289
Location
Boston
Did you ever try a Hero Elite LT? I ski an older 69 mm model at 183 cm and have not had this problem, although I probably don't ski as fast as you in crud.

Mark,

I own a older Rossi consumer slalom ski, the Slant nose 9S series. It was one or two series before the "Hero Elite" series came out. You mention the LT which is the GS ski. I own a Blizzard FIS GS race ski in 193cm. I have also skied the older Rossi GS ski. Anyway, none of them had/have the soft tip deflection issue. Rossi put a soft tip on the Hero Elite ski for some reason (along with a very small side cut, 15m in 181cm) and its very different than their LT an ST skis from what I have read, and you are confirming it. I do like the Rossi Hero skis, and I should have tried their ski, (MT I think) that is between the ST and LT. I just looked at this years skis, and all of them have fairly tight side cut numbers, the Hero Elite LT is only a 18m radius in the 182cm length. That is not bad and might be a really nice ski. My Blizzard GS ski has a 27m radius at 193cm. I needs serious speed to make it work. Here is the Pugski review on it. I can't say I agree with all of it, but in general it describes it pretty well.




1636132615232.png
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
Industry Insider
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,070
Location
PNW aka SEA
The idea that the tip of an MT getting deflect in crud is well, because like a Blizzard HRC, it needs to be driven with precision. It just isn't as forgiving a tip shape... combine that with a sprinkle of back and in, and no doubt it won't be a crud buster. For another skier, it might be fine though.
 

Marker

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Posts
1,479
Location
Kennett Square, PA & Killington, VT
Mark,

I own a older Rossi consumer slalom ski, the Slant nose 9S series. It was one or two series before the "Hero Elite" series came out. You mention the LT which is the GS ski. I own a Blizzard FIS GS race ski in 193cm. I have also skied the older Rossi GS ski. Anyway, none of them had/have the soft tip deflection issue. Rossi put a soft tip on the Hero Elite ski for some reason (along with a very small side cut, 15m in 181cm) and its very different than their LT an ST skis from what I have read, and you are confirming it. I do like the Rossi Hero skis, and I should have tried their ski, (MT I think) that is between the ST and LT. I just looked at this years skis, and all of them have fairly tight side cut numbers, the Hero Elite LT is only a 18m radius in the 182cm length. That is not bad and might be a really nice ski. My Blizzard GS ski has a 27m radius at 193cm. I needs serious speed to make it work. Here is the Pugski review on it. I can't say I agree with all of it, but in general it describes it pretty well.




View attachment 147638
My LT is an older 20 m model at 183 cm, so a cheater GS ski, not like your real deal GS, but enough for me. Good for a firm day.
 

ScottB

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
1,289
Location
Boston
The idea that the tip of an MT getting deflect in crud is well, because like a Blizzard HRC, it needs to be driven with precision. It just isn't as forgiving a tip shape... combine that with a sprinkle of back and in, and no doubt it won't be a crud buster. For another skier, it might be fine though.
Didi miss something? Who is saying a MT deflects?
 

Marker

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Posts
1,479
Location
Kennett Square, PA & Killington, VT
@kitchener As I see it, 200 lb for your friend is the transition from normal skiers to Clydesdales like @ScottB and I, so you are getting recommendations from two different camps of skiers. I've skied with Scott so have some idea of his style. My skis have all been models to handle my weight (6'6", 225 lb) as are Scott's. So our ski recommendations have to consider weight, and height to a lesser degree. At this point I could recommend a Rossi Experience 94 as they can be easily had on close out since it is not a "cool" ski. I liked it more than the 88 and it got excellent reviews here, just use the ski selector. The same day I demoed a Monster 88 and really liked it as well if I was going to zoom groomers all day.
 
Thread Starter
TS
kitchener

kitchener

Still At Large
Skier
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Posts
376
Location
Middletown, DE
...As I see it, 200 lb for your friend is the transition from normal skiers to Clydesdales like @ScottB and I. ...My skis have all been models to handle my weight (6'6", 225 lb) as are Scott's.

What would you say is a theme you look for in a ski with that transition to a ski for a Clydesdale? Oh, I'm going to have fun with that term all this coming season (nevermind I'm right behind him in size).
 
Last edited:

ScottB

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
1,289
Location
Boston
I’ll answer this as I’m the one who has dragged @ScottB into the 2021 Faction Candide cult! Haha

Imagine mixing the Brahma 88, a Monster 88, Kendo 88 and a wide GS ski with a twin tip ski and that’s what the 21 CT 1.0 is like. In the 183cm length, it’s got a 20m(feels like more) radius, it’s weighs 2200gr, has very little taper so great edge grip and it’s quieter on the snow than any of the above with it’s dampening materials. Yet it’s more playful off-piste or in bumps with it’s twin tail and more forward mount.
Not going to grip hard snow quite as well as a “wide carver” like a Deacon 84/eTitan/Bold etc but more versatile off flat groomers.

For 2022, Faction is moving production to the very good Amer/Atomic plant but have redesigned the CT line to cater more towards freestyle skiers wanting a lighter, more playful ski. Weight is down considerably on the CT 1.0 through to the CT 3.0 as they are using lighter wood cores and using carbon fibre instead of titanal to reinforce the ski.

So deals out there still on the fantastic 21 versions like the CT 1.0 which I picked up for $399 CAN and have seen them at $429 at Skis.com in the States. Great deal on a fantastic ski!

Pic of the CT 1.0 on the left beside a similar shaped but flat tailed Kendo 88 and then 2 wide carvers(Deacon 84 and eTitan) with even less tip/tail taper and rocker for more edge grip on really firm snow.

View attachment 147351

Kind of a public service announcement (or maybe public dis-service to your budget) that Skis.com is dropping the price of the 2021 Faction CT 1.0 ski to $349 USD for a Black Friday Sale. I am on their mailing list and took advantage of a 24 hour preview window to buy the skis at that price yesterday. The website shows the $429 price today, but I suspect close to Black Friday it will drop again. If your interested in trying these skis, keep an eye on their site. (free shipping too)
 

ScottB

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
1,289
Location
Boston
What would you say is a theme you look for in a ski with that transition to a ski for a Clydesdale? Oh, I'm going to have fun with that term all this coming season (nevermind I'm right behind him in size).

Enough stiffness to handle the forces a heavier skier puts on a ski. Its like springs in a car suspension, heavier cars and/or high speed race cars need stiffer springs. For me personally, I like a responsive tip engagement coming from a race skis background. If you want your skis to be more forgiving and easy to pivot, you WON'T want that characteristic. It also helps longer skis (clyde length) to turn/ski quicker.
 
Thread Starter
TS
kitchener

kitchener

Still At Large
Skier
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Posts
376
Location
Middletown, DE
Imagine mixing the Brahma 88, a Monster 88, Kendo 88 and a wide GS ski with a twin tip ski and that’s what the 21 CT 1.0 is like. In the 183cm length, it’s got a 20m(feels like more) radius, it’s weighs 2200gr, has very little taper so great edge grip and it’s quieter on the snow than any of the above with it’s dampening materials. Yet it’s more playful off-piste or in bumps with it’s twin tail and more forward mount. Not going to grip hard snow quite as well as a “wide carver” like a Deacon 84/eTitan/Bold etc but more versatile off flat groomers.

RE: 2021 Faction CT 1.0

Does it lose some of its magic in shorter sizes?
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,811
Location
Ontario, Canada
RE: 2021 Faction CT 1.0

Does it lose some of its magic in shorter sizes?
No, it’s the same construction so just a touch softer and a shorter turning radius as you step down in lengths.
Have a buddy who’s a bit smaller than me that is going to get a set of the 178cm of the CT 1.0. Still a 2100-2150gr ski with an 18m turn radius and solid flex. The 172cm goes down to 17m radius and down another 100gr.
 
Thread Starter
TS
kitchener

kitchener

Still At Large
Skier
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Posts
376
Location
Middletown, DE
Kind of a public service announcement (or maybe public dis-service to your budget) that Skis.com is dropping the price of the 2021 Faction CT 1.0 ski to $349 USD for a Black Friday Sale. I am on their mailing list and took advantage of a 24 hour preview window to buy the skis at that price yesterday. The website shows the $429 price today, but I suspect close to Black Friday it will drop again. If your interested in trying these skis, keep an eye on their site. (free shipping too)

Since weight and its effects in ski selection have been a running theme, an interesting side bar is to what to make of their ski Size Chart? Example, for 180lbs - 219lbs: begin with a 176cm length, then add 6cm for Advanced Expert (for ability, with the choice below that advanced intermediate), then add 3cm if Aggressive (versus Average, stays same, or Cautious, deduct 3cm), and for terrain modification, there are 5 choices, but sticking with All Mountain, finally add 3cm.

Thus, by that chart, if our Clyde were 215lbs, wanted an all-weather interceptor, and wanted to ski it quickly, they're suggesting approximately a 191cm ski length. I think I know where Ron stands on that one, but I bet 6'2" skis for 5'8" Wayne would be right out of his shaped ski comfort zone lol.
 
Last edited:

Superbman

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Posts
330
Location
Western, MA
?? Certainly there are some that outsource manufacturing. However those tend to be on the bigger side, JSkis, Faction or "big names" like Pollard with season skis. But the true "Indy's" build there own skis, otherwise they aren't really an Indy.
J Skis is working with a pretty small (and Eastern North America) local manufacturer...that's pretty 'indy' in my book (as opposed to Armada, etc that piggy-back time in big ski company factories in Europe).

 

tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
Skier
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Posts
1,428
Location
Layton, UT
I'm surprised the Brahma 88 doesn't get more love here. Doesn't even show up in the ski selector. Near full cambler, stiff, heavy, directional. With the exception of sidecut, it seems to check most of the boxes that the AM88C does. Anyone who has been on both care to comment?
Different feel. The am88c is full camber, stiff heavy and directional. It makes the brahma feel short, moderate flex, poppy, and playful in comparison.
 

tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
Skier
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Posts
1,428
Location
Layton, UT
Since weight and its effects in ski selection have been a running theme, an interesting side bar is to what to make of their ski Size Chart? Example, for 180lbs - 219lbs: begin with a 176cm length, then add 6cm for Advanced Expert (for ability, with the choice below that advanced intermediate), then add 3cm if Aggressive (versus Average, stays same, or Cautious, deduct 3cm), and for terrain modification, there are 5 choices, but sticking with All Mountain, finally add 3cm.

Thus, by that chart, if our Clyde were 215lbs, wanted an all-weather interceptor, and wanted to ski it quickly, they're suggesting approximately a 191cm ski length. I think I know where Ron stands on that one, but I bet 6'2" skis for 5'8" Wayne would be right out of his shaped ski comfort zone lol.
I am 5'9" 200-220 and ski 190cm sometimes. I you have open terrain when skiing skis that size is good no problem. However kickturns...
 
Top