Ankle flexion

[slow-line-fast]

Another great video from Deb Armstrong.

 

[wnyskier]

Interesting that there have been zero responses to this post when fore / aft balance and pressure are probably one of the most common challenges for skiers as they progress while the tip lead thread is on to page eight where the weeds are so deep you can't see the trees.......

 

[AmyPJ]

I missed this thread, but watched the video a week or so ago. Always some good nuggets in Deb’s videos.

 

[DebbieSue]

Interesting that there have been zero responses to this post when fore / aft balance and pressure are probably one of the most common challenges for skiers as they progress while the tip lead thread is on to page eight where the weeds are so deep you can't see the trees.......

I think it’s much harder to evaluate one’s own ankle flexion (or anybody’s since it’s hidden in the boot) whereas tip lead is easy to see.

 

[KingGrump]

I think it’s much harder to evaluate one’s own ankle flexion (or anybody’s since it’s hidden in the boot) whereas tip lead is easy to see.

Ankle flexion is actually really easy to see/feel if you know what you are looking/feeling for.

Anyway, lot more people ski with open ankles than closed. If you are not sure, just say "open". You will be right most of the time.

 

[James]

I mean another thread on ankle flexion? Every thread gies there. Stand by for Ron Kipp…

 

[Chris V.]

Aim for mobility in the ankle joints, and the timing will follow.

 

[Yepow]

@LiquidFeet pointed out in a frame grab 2-3 weeks ago how open my ankles had been (very useful, thank you) and that made a comment that @markojp had made a year ago about "I see no evidence of ankle flexion" make more sense. When you are learning everything you can read someone's comment about ankle flexion like that, want to improve, but not have a framework to hang that comment on. Takes time (at least for me) to learn what all this stuff means and what's important.

 

[cantunamunch]

I mean another thread on ankle flexion? Every thread gies there. Stand by for Ron Kipp…

Isn't that the whole point of spiral learning?

Every thread will visit the same quadrants of the topic map. In the same order, even.

 

[KingGrump]

Isn't that the whole point of spiral learning?

Someone said spiral learning?

 

[James]

Isn't that the whole point of spiral learning?

Graveyard Spiral?

 

[Fuller]

Someone said spiral learning?

View attachment 189549

Clockwise

You must be below the equator where it is currently summer....

 

[Scrundy]

I think it’s much harder to evaluate one’s own ankle flexion (or anybody’s since it’s hidden in the boot) whereas tip lead is easy to see.

Idk I would assume it’s just automatic to keep balanced. I surly would be a worse skier if never flexing ankle, I can’t imagine skiing without my boots set up with use of all the ankle flex I have. Pretty sure all experienced skiers do it on auto with or without knowing.

 

[James]

It’s easy to lock your ankles up with excessive power strap use, cuff tightening, and a mismatch to the leg.
The body is weird, and ski boots will prove it.

 

[François Pugh]

Interesting that there have been zero responses to this post when fore / aft balance and pressure are probably one of the most common challenges for skiers as they progress while the tip lead thread is on to page eight where the weeds are so deep you can't see the trees.......

Yeah, I flex my ankles. I bend my knees too, and my hips also work. In fact I have many joints that need to move when I ski. I don't see it as a big deal.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Another great video from Deb Armstrong.

I found it interesting that all the interviewed skiers, except the coach at the end, responded to the question of what they think when they hear the term "ankle flexion" in the simplest possible way. They basically said yes, ankle flexion is important and we are work constantly to use it. They did not describe how they use it, nor why.

The coach at the end mentioned shin-tongue contact as one element of "ankle flexion." He also said it's very hard to do ankle flexion for most skiers, and he didn't know why it was so hard. I wish he had said more.

I'd have enjoyed the video had the interviewed skiers discussed whether or not they consider "ankle flexion" a movement pattern or a stance, what specifically they are doing with their ankles when they "ankle flex," what result they are seeking with ankle flexion, and what unwanted effects happen when they fail to use it.

It would also have been better had someone talked about the two types of ankle flexion, dorsiflexion and plantar flexion, when they use each, and what purpose each serves.

Overall, I didn't find the interviews very interesting. There wasn't enough "meat" there to prompt me to comment.

 

[wnyskier]

I'd have enjoyed the video had the interviewed skiers discussed whether or not they consider "ankle flexion" a movement pattern or a stance, what specifically they are doing with their ankles when they "ankle flex," what result they are seeking with ankle flexion, and what unwanted effects happen when they fail to use it.

Totally agree - the posted video should have been a conversation starter for this discussion.

 

[François Pugh]

I found it interesting that all the interviewed skiers, except the coach at the end, responded to the question of what they think when they hear the term "ankle flexion" in the simplest possible way. They basically said yes, ankle flexion is important and we are work constantly to use it. They did not describe how they use it, nor why.

The coach at the end mentioned shin-tongue contact as one element of "ankle flexion." He also said it's very hard to do ankle flexion for most skiers, and he didn't know why it was so hard. I wish he had said more.

I'd have enjoyed the video had the interviewed skiers discussed whether or not they consider "ankle flexion" a movement pattern or a stance, what specifically they are doing with their ankles when they "ankle flex," what result they are seeking with ankle flexion, and what unwanted effects happen when they fail to use it.

It would also have been better had someone talked about the two types of ankle flexion, dorsiflexion and plantar flexion, when they use each, and what purpose each serves.

Overall, I didn't find the interviews very interesting. There wasn't enough "meat" there to prompt me to comment.

This is the ankle version of "Bend zee knees; ten dollars please."

Looking at it as a conversation starter, I'll say ankle fexion is useful for re-centering and not getting left behind when your GS skis rocket out of the turn, and for triggering proper movement of other muscles when you are getting into a turn.

 

[Scruffy]

I thought some of the interviews were very telling. Mabey not as detailed as some would like however.

First athlete talks about using ankle flexion to create movement in turn - being dynamic in the turn, not static, which we talk a lot about here.

Second athlete talks about it allowing him to be in a position where he can react to the terrain - be reactive- meaning have some suspension - you ski the ski - don't let the ski ski you. He also talks about pulling the new outside foot back at the top of the turn- key racing move - not talked about here much - lots of folks here talk about tipping and pulling back the new inside ski.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....He also talks about pulling the new outside foot back at the top of the turn- key racing move - not talked about here much - lots of folks here talk about tipping and pulling back the new inside ski.

Thread drift.

These two pull-backs are different, and can be done at the same time independently. The new inside ski/foot pull-back happens from the knee down. It's a lower leg pull-back that shortens that leg. The new outside ski/foot pull-back happens from the hip down. It's a whole leg pull-back that lengthens that leg, and is rarely mentioned here if at all..

In both cases the ankle will dorsiflex more if the skier keeps the tail of the ski on the snow. This increased dorsiflexion is a by-product of the pull-back, not a cause. Another by-product is tipping. Both skis tend to tip onto their new edges without conscious control as the pull-back is happening, at least with me and with my students who get this instruction from me.

Doing either pull-back by itself will generate a turn. The new inside foot pull-back alone generates a flexion turn since it shortens that leg. The new outside pull-back alone generates an extension turn since it lengthens that leg.

Here's where I first encountered the new outside ski/foot pull-back: